Extra conduit for power

[Brno8x57]

I have a detached garage that has enough power for now and no need to upgrade. It’s has a 10 gauge and now that I have 240, it’s enough.
I may need more one day, don’t know for what or
How much.
I am digging an trench from the house to the garage for water line for the front of garage. Tired of dragging 100 feet of hose. Water will be off during winter.
I’m also running low voltage wire for Internet access and connectability.
Electrician recommended dropping an extra 1.5 conduit at least 18 inches, for the future power upgrade.
So how does this work, do I need to apply for a permit or inspection now, or will they dig up random spots to verify?
Adding the conduit is cheap, it means digging another few inches which is also easy.
How can I prepare for a future inspection?
I am in Maryland.

 

[Bert_]

I have never even had an inspector ask to see a wire or conduit before it got buried. Not once.

If it a thing where you are at I would just call and ask.

 

[sberry]

Take a picture.

 

[Terry D]

In my parts, it has to be inspected before covered up

 

[Brno8x57]

Thank you both; I’ll give them a call tomorrow and see what my options are. Given the extremes this state goes with rules, my bet is that they’ll want to see it before any dirt touches it. Really makes planning ahead difficult.

 

[nadogail]

What can it hurt to ask an inspector tomorrow (Monday)?

 

[Brno8x57]

What can it hurt to ask an inspector tomorrow (Monday)?

Hopefully nothing; knowing the county government, they are
Understaffed so a quick response is unlikely.
I won’t be filling in the ditch until the weekend so I have time.

 

[sberry]

Hold a tape in the hole, take a pic.

 

[larry4406]

I built new homes in Montgomery County MD for 7+ years. From what I gather, they are one of the tougher counties in the state. Not sure where in MD you are.

They require a trench inspection for electrical conduits so you would need an electrical permit. Trench is left open, conduit is in place, they come out and measure the depth and then tell you its ok to backfill.

I would be inclined to place the conduit, take pictures showing the overall run, and take pictures at several locations with a tape measure in the field of view clearly showing you are 18" or more buried. I assume you have not pulled an electric permit.

Montgomery County MD even requires an electric permit for installing low voltage devices in the home.

I had to have a conduit trench inspection for my barn power project (Fauquier County Va).

I had one site where I had to install a long conduit and trade timing was such that I could only get it done over the weekend. We took scrap pieces of conduit, cut in half using a hole saw with diameter equal to the conduit OD. We then duct taped this to the buried conduit in a Tee arrangement and placed it vertical. This became an inspection port that the inspector could look at and put his tape in. I think we put these every 25' or so. I had discussed this with the inspector prior.

 

[LXAwolf]

I had one site where I had to install a long conduit and trade timing was such that I could only get it done over the weekend. We took scrap pieces of conduit, cut in half using a hole saw with diameter equal to the conduit OD. We then duct taped this to the buried conduit in a Tee arrangement and placed it vertical. This became an inspection port that the inspector could look at and put his tape in. I think we put these every 25' or so. I had discussed this with the inspector prior.

Great info! Definitely save that for the future.

 

[Ilikeike]

We would just leave it exposed here and there "potholed", in case the inspector wanted to look at it.

 

[sberry]

Any inspector worth a pinch of **** will understand exactly what you did if it comes down to that, if had to could dig a couple inspection holes but I really doubt it with a picture. Are you ever going to need a future inspection or does this come from the same existing source?

 

[sberry]

I did one a while back where the new rods had to go under the eve. There was about a foot if ice, I had the wire there, the rods there and the wire bugged to an old rod,,, it was the first thing I showed him and asked,,,, would you allow me to come back after the thaw,,, it wasn't a problem.

 

[Kaizen]

Hopefully nothing; knowing the county government, they are
Understaffed so a quick response is unlikely.
I won’t be filling in the ditch until the weekend so I have time.

Doubt they will/can come out without you paying for an electrical permit. I'd just leave it capped a foot from the building or better yet put a sweep on it and cap above grade. any time i open a wall or a trench i always put more in then i think i will need. results are 50/50. wireless tech has made a lot not needed.
Are you running pex for the water line?

 

[ard]

Take a picture.

Thank you both; I’ll give them a call tomorrow and see what my options are. Given the extremes this state goes with rules, my bet is that they’ll want to see it before any dirt touches it. Really makes planning ahead difficult.

Hold a tape in the hole, take a pic.

I would NOT call and ask. Almost surely they will spin off into some 'you need a permit today' nonsense.

Dig the trench, place the conduit, place tape measure- take pictures.... ask for forgiveness later, if at all.

 

[Brno8x57]

Yes to pex. 3/4 inch so it doesn’t restrict the flow too much. I was
Going to correct it to the hose bib, basically making the pex an underground hose. No need to cut into the plumbing.

 

[TractorJeff]

Bury the Conduit with photos as you haven't indicated this is an imminent upgrade. It may never happen! Don't give them the money as they will make you do the total job thinking you are going to sneak something in there in the next month!

 

[dcg9381]

Normally, I say to upgrade to 2" conduit, but with a "garage" - I'm assuming at or under 600 feet, you likely won't ever need more than 60A. I think the recommended size will be fine.

Other suggestions:
* There may be regulation about electrical and water being in the same trench. I personally, don't like to do it...
* 3/4 "water main" and 100 feet - I think that's fine. If you're ever going to do anything "residential like" in that garage - meaning needing more than one branch of water, you may want to look at charts that indicate psi drop per distance at water volume. If you're just washing the car, 100 feet of 3/4 from a hose bib is fine..

 

[Brno8x57]

At most washing a car or power washer for the driveway. Right now I have to haul to 50 foot long hoses just to get to the back of the garage. Then another 25 foot one to reach the car. By that point I’m okay with a dirty car.

Any electrical upgrade would be years away. Who knows maybe we’ll be at wireless power by then. In my previous house I finally got Ethernet cable to the garage, just in time for wireless routers that could reach my garage.

 

[malibu101]

Brno8x57
Just wanted to say you are doing what I wished I had done 23 years ago.

Moved into our house in November.
First thing was to dig a trench to the detached garage (about 75') before the ground froze for enough 240V so I could use my stuff. Ran a power and data conduit (glad I ran the data conduit!).
I thought about running a water line out to a hose bib on the garage for the outdoor parking space next to the garage, knowing I would shut it off in the winter but would sure make things easy in the summer.
I didn't have the piping, or money at the time since all that comes with buying a house had us a bit down, so I didn't run water.

I've been kicking myself for many years while storing, laying out, and picking up 100' of hose to wash a car. Not to mention walking down to the house to wash very greasy hands before going inside.

EDIT-
My yard is nothing fancy to speak of and there's nothing in the way. I could "easily" dig another trench and do it. Simple as that.
I just keep plodding along with my workaround.
I must admit though- I often leave the hose stretched through the yard until it's time to mow.

 

[sberry]

Dig it up, put a water in.

 

[Brno8x57]

Thanks for the support.

 

[malibu101]

Dig it up, put a water in.

If you're talking to me....
I edited my post.

 

[Brno8x57]

If you're talking to me....
I edited my post.

Yes. My trench ended up being 65 feet, went at a slight angle to the garage. Depth was kept to 20 inches measured to top of the conduit.

 

[ard]

Bury the Conduit with photos as you haven't indicated this is an imminent upgrade.

Id just save the photos in the house....



(we know what you meant...)

 

[mike93lx]

I'm curious on your comment about "now having 240V". How many conductors are feeding the garage? 4, right? Do you also have ground rods?

The way you worded it is making me think that it could be a 3 wire feeder that was originally 120V but you rewired it to 240V, which would be a no-no as you don't have a neutral.

 

[Bert_]

I'm curious on your comment about "now having 240V". How many conductors are feeding the garage? 4, right? Do you also have ground rods?

The way you worded it is making me think that it could be a 3 wire feeder that was originally 120V but you rewired it to 240V, which would be a no-no as you don't have a neutral.

There are thousands of three wire 120/240v feeders out there that were completely legal when installed. The code is not retroactive so they can continue to be used. Any new feeder of course would be 4 wire.

 

[mike93lx]

There are thousands of three wire 120/240v feeders out there that were completely legal when installed. The code is not retroactive so they can continue to be used. Any new feeder of course would be 4 wire.

If he just converted it from 3 wire 120v to 3 wire 240v,would that not be compliant?

 

[sberry]

3 wire 240/120 has an insulated n wire.

 

[Brno8x57]

The garage has a junction box that has wire from the house through a buried 1/2 inch conduit. In the garage, there are two 10/2 sets of wires that connect to a 120 outlet and light switch.
I asked electrician to see if he could pull 8/3 using the existing conduit. He opened the junction box and saw that the garage has 10/3, one of the hots there and in the main panel in the house had not been used or connected. They must’ve had lots of 10/3 because the electrician found a few older light switches that had the same setup.
He said trying to reuse the old conduit for anything was waste of time and the max he would try would be 10/3, It’s probably rusted.
So I now have 240 volt in the garage and Once he pulls a permit I’ll get a 30 amp sub-panel.

 

[mike93lx]

Is the wire nm-b? That would have three insulated wires plus a bare ground surrounded by a jacket that is not molded on.

If it is, you can't run that outdoors, even in conduit.

If it has a jacket that is molded over the wires, it is UF, which is ok