EZFloor/RAZ Panel - insulation & PEX routing?

[PNWguy]

I'm getting closer to pouring a 3,400 sq ft slab for a house/shop and nobody locally can deal with radiant heat, so I'm doing that part myself.

Most of the PEX vendors want to sell me zip ties or staples for attaching the PEX. One guy quoted me one of the floors that looks like Legos that the Pex "snaps" into. It's about $800 more than the same R value of XPS, but will save quite a bit of time.

Who has experience with EZFloor/RAZ Panel or any of the other Lego like floors?

http://www.ezfloor.com/album/slides/04.jpg

 

[Kaizen]

Man that’s a huge footprint. While I have not used that LEGO stuff I have used the staples in two inch insulation. Pita. It was a small area so I kept pulling staples as I made turns. I’d spend the money on that stuff. Also saw on some show where they modified a palm nailer to bang it in faster. They had one guy rolling it out and a second following with the nailer.
Good luck that’s a huge job.


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[PNWguy]

Man that’s a huge footprint. While I have not used that LEGO stuff I have used the staples in two inch insulation. Pita. It was a small area so I kept pulling staples as I made turns. I’d spend the money on that stuff. Also saw on some show where they modified a palm nailer to bang it in faster. They had one guy rolling it out and a second following with the nailer.
Good luck that’s a huge job.

The best part about that huge footprint is that only 850 sq ft is house.

I had been planning on putting down a 12 inch rebar/wire mesh and using a billion zip ties to keep it all together. I don't really trust the staples to not pull out with a half a dozen guys walking around on it. Massive PITA, and buying the mesh adds to the cost.

 

[dcg9381]

The best part about that huge footprint is that only 850 sq ft is house.

You're dong it right.

 

[78SC4X4]

Only $800 bucks more? I'm planning on doing 2100 sqft and create-heat or lego version looks like $1200 more than regular 2" board. It is also 7/8" thicker so in my pole building that would raise the floor another inch.

 

[stingry]

I had been planning on putting down a 12 inch rebar/wire mesh and using a billion zip ties to keep it all together. I don't really trust the staples to not pull out with a half a dozen guys walking around on it. Massive PITA, and buying the mesh adds to the cost.

My shop is 3600 sq ft. I used 2 inch foam and stapled the PEX 12 inches apart. The staples work fine and goes fairly fast with two people, one unrolling the PEX and another stapling. Online sellers will loan the stapler if you buy the Staples from them. This works best if done when it is warm and the PEX is pliable. I then laid 6x6 wire mesh on top of the tubing. This helped keep the PEX in place and protect it from the finishers. Had zero problems with the pour. This is my second season and the floor heat is working flawlessly. Great heat!!

 

[PNWguy]

Only $800 bucks more? I'm planning on doing 2100 sqft and create-heat or lego version looks like $1200 more than regular 2" board. It is also 7/8" thicker so in my pole building that would raise the floor another inch.

The extra thickness works well for me, as I'm buying a lot of fill.

As for the cost, it seems that pink foam has gone up in price lately, and the best deal I can get is $30/sheet. It think it was under $25 a few months ago (but I've been looking at a lot of numbers and may not be remembering correctly). The bid from my contractor was $4,500 for foam, but I found it for a bit less. The price of RAZ was about $800 more, including shipping.

 

[PNWguy]

My shop is 3600 sq ft. I used 2 inch foam and stapled the PEX 12 inches apart. The staples work fine and goes fairly fast with two people, one unrolling the PEX and another stapling. Online sellers will loan the stapler if you buy the Staples from them. This works best if done when it is warm and the PEX is pliable. I then laid 6x6 wire mesh on top of the tubing. This helped keep the PEX in place and protect it from the finishers. Had zero problems with the pour. This is my second season and the floor heat is working flawlessly. Great heat!!

Thanks, that sounds like another good option.
On the downside, we are 3-4 months away from the warm season.

 

[Mancino]

I used the crete-heat panels for my build...I have a few pictures from my install on my build thread. I found surplus material on CL from the manufacturer in Mass, so the price was way cheaper than buying new XPS sheets(I also looked for surplus XPS). I've done both styles of installation too (staples on re-mesh and crete-heat). The crete-heat panels are way easier. Especially if you are doing it yourself. I did my 1200 sq/ft floor in a few hours by myself.

Like you mentioned, you have some time before the warm season...see if you can find surplus or factory seconds of either material. I know it pops up around my area often. Worst case, you know your options if you can't find a cheaper solution.

 

[purplezr2]

I did just staple down on 2 inch foam. It was super easy, mark the foam with a story board, and go to town. Had two guys, laid the tubing out in the sun to make it alittle easier to work with.

 

[yeldogt]

There is no "one way" ..."best way" ... and "having no problems" "works great" is no reason to use one system over another. Many systems work

Like many things -- it depends. Many of the panel systems use the less expensive EPS vs XPS ... and discuss that it's better. I just don't get the science behind the claim -- same material -- one is beads .. the other is extruded. Water is an enemy when trying to keep heat in. How can EPS be better? The OC pink is extruded ...

I have used the panel system -- it was very nice and easy. It was EPS in a very dry area.

I do a heavy VB under the insulation and a proper base of stone. I typically do 2" XPS and use the 6" mesh for inside residential because I do 6" spacing .. I have been able to get other spacing based on what I want to do in a garage situation. Zip the tubing to the mesh. It's easy as well.

I do 4" thick -- or a tad thicker. SO these are not industrial spaces needing thick heavy weight slabs .. requiring reinforcements

 

[PNWguy]

Thanks all - lots of good info here.

 

[joe--h]

https://www.concreteconstruction.ne...oosing-between-eps-and-xps-rigid-insulation_o

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/polyethylene-under-concrete-slabs

EPS is a lot cheaper than pink. And it's also treated with borate so ants don't eat it. Poly goes on top of the foam.

 

[yeldogt]

https://www.concreteconstruction.ne...oosing-between-eps-and-xps-rigid-insulation_o

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/polyethylene-under-concrete-slabs

EPS is a lot cheaper than pink. And it's also treated with borate so ants don't eat it. Poly goes on top of the foam.

Not all is treated .. and your first link is interesting because that company makes the type of foam they like.

If you read O Corning -- they tell you something different. The quality of the product matters. ESP is small balls compacted together .... it stand to reason that moisture would get in .. and if it did would dry faster vs an extruded product that going to have tighter construction ... but, quality extruded should not allow moisture.

Also, GBA recommends placing the plastic VB above the foam and then stapling the tubing through the VB onto foam. What's the point of that ? They say little moisture vapor can get through ... what about Radon?

I have tested proper base and foam with VB under the foam -- people walking over it for a week and the VB is intact ... I don't see the logic to the VB above the foam.

 

[PNWguy]

Also, GBA recommends placing the plastic VB above the foam and then stapling the tubing through the VB onto foam. What's the point of that ? They say little moisture vapor can get through ... what about Radon?

... I don't see the logic to the VB above the foam.

Agreed. It makes no sense to put down a VB then punch it full of holes.