Fabricating joist hangers

[Walkers]

I need to fabricate 24 joist hangers for my own building project. The odd thing about them is they are skewed 67.5 degrees. I can’t find anything local. I called Simson Strong-Tie, and the had either a $189 each adjustable, or a much cheaper bendable plate that was so cheesy I wouldn’t hang a picture with it. I was told by the architect just to use the same number of fasteners as a Simpson 90° hanger and it should be fine, and didn’t need the hanger underneath since the joists were already up. Was told similar but needed the hanger by the structural steel guy I am a sub contractor for. Was also told I could put all the fasteners on one side and not have to nail on the difficult side.
I have made hundreds of joist hangers, beam hangers, etc. I would just get a drawing of what they want and make it, I never really paid that close of attention to it.
I am a metal fab and contractor by trade, just not a wood contractor. I am just curious as opinions and comfort level with these ideas.

thanks,

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you have made hundreds of them already, why not just make your own again ?

 

[PCustoms]

Pictures of the joists or a sketch of what you're trying to do?

Everything wood?

What size rafter?

PT?

 

[readhead]

Need to know more about the application, fasteners, and rafter size. Are they skewed and slopped? Is it for a hip or valley? Is it a visual component?

At that angle you won’t get any fasteners on the short side unless the saddle is very long and that will look worse than no hanger. Since you are a sub to the structural steel guy I would have him work it out. I am the structural steel guy and I always hated hangers after the fact.

 

[cannuck]

If it for your own use and no engineering is needed, why not just fire up shears and brakes and make something skewed to that angle? Might take a bit of tooling and imagination to make the center 90s, but hardly end of the world stuff.

 

[41plym]

Cheesy Simpson brackets have been engineered for each application.

 

[mike93lx]

Cheesy Simpson brackets have been engineered for each application.

I'd have no problem using any Simpson product in its intended application

 

[Rusted Nut]

Seems like you need a drawing from the structural engineer for this.

 

[PCustoms]

I need to fabricate 24 joist hangers for my own building project.

Just going to put that right there....

 

[readhead]

Thanks. I missed that part. Kind of changes the plot.

 

[Walkers]

If you have made hundreds of them already, why not just make your own again ?

They are never for the same situation.

Pictures of the joists or a sketch of what you're trying to do?

Everything wood?

What size rafter?

PT?

All wood, 2x10 rafters, 5 in 12 pitch.

Need to know more about the application, fasteners, and rafter size. Are they skewed and slopped? Is it for a hip or valley? Is it a visual component?

At that angle you won’t get any fasteners on the short side unless the saddle is very long and that will look worse than no hanger. Since you are a sub to the structural steel guy I would have him work it out. I am the structural steel guy and I always hated hangers after the fact.

Skewed 67.5 degrees, 5/12 pitch, shed roof off of the main building.

Seems like you need a drawing from the structural engineer for this.

C I know! These meet the up and down loading, but have slots in the middle to make it easy to field bend. I don’t think there is a half inch of 16 gauge steel. While it may look good on paper it does not rest easy in my mind.

Seems like you need a drawing from the structural engineer for this.

sure, at $2500 to disturb the structural engineer, they will get it to me in 4 to 6 weeks. I checked with Simsom, which has a big center near me, and their tech support answer said that these bendable brackets were just fine. I just don’t like them, they seem like the minimal answer, not the right answer.

 

[cannuck]

90s 1.5 apart aren't coming off of you box and pan. How were you planning them? Also agree strongly that 1/2" of 16ga I am not comfortable with.

 

[Hank11]

“The joists are already up”.
We need a picture.
But right now it seems that an angle plate on each side of each joist might do the job.

 

[welder4956]

sure, at $2500 to disturb the structural engineer, they will get it to me in 4 to 6 weeks. I checked with Simsom, which has a big center near me, and their tech support answer said that these bendable brackets were just fine. I just don’t like them, they seem like the minimal answer, not the right answer.

If you need to pass an inspection, aren't these your only options, either use a standard product designed for the application or provide an engineered design that the inspector will accept?

Are these the hangers that Simpson recommended: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson...2-in-x-10-in-Nominal-Lumber-LRU210Z/205694651

 

[PCustoms]

If you need to pass an inspection, aren't these your only options, either use a standard product designed for the application or provide an engineered design that the inspector will accept?

Are these the hangers that Simpson recommended: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson...2-in-x-10-in-Nominal-Lumber-LRU210Z/205694651

That looks like a standard hanger...

I'm having trouble visualizing the skewed joists

 

[wssix99]

I called Simson Strong-Tie, and the had either a $189 each adjustable

This isn't right. That can't be a price for a single piece.

The angled hangars are not cheap but they aren't outrageous, either. I have a 57 degree house and needed some of these. However, I put them on beams so I could use lighter joists with 90 degree hangars. I saved a ton of money this way. (I also avoided an extra post and foundation on this porch.)



Can you share details of what you have and the hangar Simpson is recommending for you?

BTW - On these angled hangars, competing brands have better products.

 

[Walkers]

If you need to pass an inspection, aren't these your only options, either use a standard product designed for the application or provide an engineered design that the inspector will accept?

one would think that. It is my understanding that the amount of nails on either side is really the deciding factor, so long as that is met, then you can do what you want. I cannot find this in writing, though that does not mean it is not written. I suspect I could find it in the code book under the strap and shear section, but alas, I do not own a current version.
As stated earlier, I have made a ton of them. These are all residential construction, not commercial, so the rules are a little easier.

 

[PCustoms]

BTW - On these angled hangars, competing brands have better products.

Curious what other brands are out there.

I looked a while back and had issues finding anything with a real rating.

 

[Walkers]

It is difficult getting meaningful pictures, but hopefully these give you the right idea.
It is maybe easier to visualize from the mirroring patio side where we are using Timberloks.

 

[Hank11]

Either hanger should work fine. Problem you have now is that where the hangers go? Its nailed up tight and no place for the hanger nails! (maybe I can't see it correctly) I don't think hangers will improve that unless you have to for inspection.

 

[welder4956]

If the inspector will accept the equivalent number of nails idea, then perhaps you could fabricate a metal bracket with at least that many holes, spacing between holes and spacing from the edges and at least as thick as the Simpson bracket and see if he would be OK with that.

 

[PCustoms]

Not exactly correct, but could you make a "T" strap with the base skewed?

Would nail down the bottom of the joist and the ledger, preventing anything from pulling "downhill". You could leave some tabs to face nail to the ledger too.

Alternatively, can you get another ledger screwed in order this to provide some support? I'd call that good.

 

[readhead]

Do the plans specify a connection? There are a couple of choices for Simpson, LSSJ and TJC. Have you talked to the inspector about this?

 

[AEAdam]

Top picture are those floor joists or rafters attaching to some sort of spliced ledger? Is that ledger spliced by 3/4” OSB? Really confused by the picture. Big gaps in the OSB, is that a floor? Are you doing this work or someone else? The lumber, and joint quality looks terrible.

If I had goofy angles that I couldn’t buy brackets for, I would have supported those joists or rafters with some sort of header beam. The brackets are strong enough for ideal conditions. But not much beats simply stacking joists or rafters on top of some sort of beam, then toe nailing them in place.

 

[Joemctag]

I need to fabricate 24 joist hangers for my own building project. The odd thing about them is they are skewed 67.5 degrees. I can’t find anything local. I called Simson Strong-Tie, and the had either a $189 each adjustable, or a much cheaper bendable plate that was so cheesy I wouldn’t hang a picture with it. I was told by the architect just to use the same number of fasteners as a Simpson 90° hanger and it should be fine, and didn’t need the hanger underneath since the joists were already up. Was told similar but needed the hanger by the structural steel guy I am a sub contractor for. Was also told I could put all the fasteners on one side and not have to nail on the difficult side.
I have made hundreds of joist hangers, beam hangers, etc. I would just get a drawing of what they want and make it, I never really paid that close of attention to it.
I am a metal fab and contractor by trade, just not a wood contractor. I am just curious as opinions and comfort level with these ideas.

thanks,

Maybe a bent plate vertical on the more accessible side and a seat of some kind underneath. Possibly the same welded-up assembly.
I, too, have made right many custom brackets of all types. Wood with steel connectors is a good combination. Would you get any “satisfaction “ making your own or do you just want it done?

 

[Walkers]

Top picture are those floor joists or rafters attaching to some sort of spliced ledger? Is that ledger spliced by 3/4” OSB? Really confused by the picture. Big gaps in the OSB, is that a floor? Are you doing this work or someone else? The lumber, and joint quality looks terrible.

If I had goofy angles that I couldn’t buy brackets for, I would have supported those joists or rafters with some sort of header beam. The brackets are strong enough for ideal conditions. But not much beats simply stacking joists or rafters on top of some sort of beam, then toe nailing them in place.

Top pic is to show the angle for clarity. It is the rafters for the patio. The sheathing is just a spacer. I can’t fully sheath until after my strap and shear inspection. The lumber quality is reasonable, most of it came directly from Boise Cascade. The workmanship I would put at above average for what I have seen. Their chalk lines are square and their layout is very good. The rafters are not easy to figure out because it is an angle on an angle on an angle.
Since I got cancer I can’t be outside for more than a short amount of time, so I don’t have a choice.

 

[Walkers]

Maybe a bent plate vertical on the more accessible side and a seat of some kind underneath. Possibly the same welded-up assembly.
I, too, have made right many custom brackets of all types. Wood with steel connectors is a good combination. Would you get any “satisfaction “ making your own or do you just want it done?

I always get satisfaction from a job well done. In this instance I would like the inspector to glance at it, think nothing of it and walk away without asking questions. I may even make important looking engraving on it and use 12 gauge galvy so everything looks great!

 

[PCustoms]

Top pic is to show the angle for clarity. It is the rafters for the patio. The sheathing is just a spacer.

This needs a piece of blocking behind it

Since I got cancer I can’t be outside for more than a short amount of time, so I don’t have a choice.

**** cancer. Sorry you're dealing with that...

 

[wssix99]

Curious what other brands are out there.

I looked a while back and had issues finding anything with a real rating.

I enjoyed discovering USP Structural, which now looks like its MiTek.

Is this a roof? If so, this hanger may be the best to put in, now that you are already toe-nailed in: https://www.mitek-us.com/products/ewp-hangers/slope-skew-hangers/lss/

I found in my records that I used Simpson LSSU210-2 for my double beams and the LSSU210 for the singles, but it appears those are discontinued. The installation instructions were complex but the got the job done well. I don't see anything like them except the Simpson LSSU rafter hangers. I expect the rafter hangers are too weak for joists but would be fine if you just have rafters?

Either way, Simpson is a bunch of bastards for discontinuing that hanger. ^

For joists I guess the alternative would be a ledger strip or just angles on either side. (The joist hanger is just two angles but together. The ******** the bottom doesn't do much except hold things in place when the nailing is done.

For your application, (no matter what you do) getting nails on something in those acute angles is going to be a *****. I developed a system where I used a palm nailer and a metal rod to get in there an vibrate the little hanger nails in.

 

[Kenstone1]

I would mock-up the joist hanger you need out of cardboard as a template.
Mark the bends and the hole pattern, flatten it out, and trace it out on an appropriate piece of galvanized, cut it out and use that 1st cut-to-shape metal piece as a template to cut the remaining 23 pieces.
Cut them out on a bandsaw, drill the screw holes, make the bends in a bench vice...done.

I always found making a cardboard template way easier than chasing angles and bends using measurements to fabricate a complex sheet metal piece. Make a too short cut on the cardboard, just tape the cardboard back on and recut it.
jmo,
.

 

[Zen]

Would these work?

THASR/THASL

The versatile THASR/L is designed to give the installer maximum flexibility in supporting trusses and beams. The THASR/L hangers can be field-skewed from 22 1/2° to 75°.

www.strongtie.com

 

[PCustoms]

Would these work?

THASR/THASL

The versatile THASR/L is designed to give the installer maximum flexibility in supporting trusses and beams. The THASR/L hangers can be field-skewed from 22 1/2° to 75°.

www.strongtie.com

I love it, "field formed" sounds so much better then "bashed with hammer".

 

[cmandp]

I would say use the appropriate formable Simpson hanger and move on with life. If these were exposed then I would be more willing to put the effort in to make a nice looking hanger.

 

[41plym]

^^^ Agree