#FabSpace

[lilscorpion]

I'm certainly no professional but I've been powdercoating small batches of stuff at work for about 10 years now. We do a lot of UV printing on black panels and then I do a top coat with Prismatic Casper Clear. I've found that there is a fine line between cured enough and over-cooked/yellowed. So I think your thoughts are correct. Great fab work as always though, I enjoy your thread and I really want some of that stripper.

Casper is cool. I have a few pounds with the intent of trying it over a few of the single stage colors I’ve liked just to see how it finishes. I’ll keep playing with cleats but what I’m starting to realize is they’re much easier over parts that are consistent thicknesses and short lengths - like my sample pieces. As the piece Carrie’s in thickness, or the part is large, it’s really challenging to keep the temp and cure time consistent enough to have the part end up right. I didn’t realize before but the single house in-wall oven actually did me favors in that regard - I simply couldn’t fit bigger parts and the inside of the oven is very consistent.

 

[lilscorpion]

I was told the same thing when I had our sandrail chassis powder coated years ago, that I should stick with a single stage color. Me wanting what I wanted and already used to painting tri-coat colors and kandys I told them to push forward. Although this was the first time I had not painted one of my own chassis and had it powder coated I didn't think it would be that big a deal. Well when I picked up the chassis and got the bill I realized it was a bit deal. Had it not been in the dead of winter I would have painted the chassis with urethane kandys and skipped the powder coating but timing was not on my side.

You'll get the hang of the multi-step powder coating Matt. I have no idea what's involved but I know you'll figure it out, it's what you do.

I cannot even imagine trying to use a dual coat system on a full chassis. not that it couldn’t be done but if I messed up on coating application, there’s be no easy way to strip it and it wouldn’t fit in the blast cabinet (unless in pieces which could happen, I’d probably be fairly frustrated or angry). It would have to be sand blasted outside…my HOA would $hit.

Yeah, I gotta keep at it. I’m certain there’s a sweet spot, just gotta find it.

 

[rattle_snake]

Perhaps walk in sized commercial oven with a more consistent temperature distribution would solve?


In college I worked at a place that made test equipment including ovens for testing high end crystal oscillators. We made the ovens from scratch. Getting the temp even was non trivial even at constant temp. Depends on what you put in it also.

 

[lilscorpion]

Perhaps walk in sized commercial oven with a more consistent temperature distribution would solve?


In college I worked at a place that made test equipment including ovens for testing high end crystal oscillators. We made the ovens from scratch. Getting the temp even was non trivial even at constant temp. Depends on what you put in it also.

Yeah, I need a bigger oven and plan to build one with considerable air circulation fans. Parts that have inconsistent thicknesses still won’t heat evenly even if the oven has ideal heat distribution. Here’s an example - a cast brake caliper has 3 significantly different thicknesses…ears will get to temp way more quickly than the piston body.

 

[lilscorpion]

@rattle_snake got me thinking that maybe, while I’m waiting, I should try a caliper. Why not…would be a good opportunity to show how these dormants work. It’s kinda cool.

Here’s the step I’m talking about - the base coat is “flashing” starting out at the ears and works into the body. Remember that this needs to be pulled just after it flashes so if it takes a few minutes for the center ti flash, the the clear won’t stick to the ears because they would have started to cure.



This is after the whole part had flashes. It turns out that if I get it out exactly as the body flashes, the ears don’t start to cure (or cure enough) messing with the clear.



Clear, when it sticks correctly, should look like this - even coat over the entire part, so this looks good or how it’s supposed to.



Back in the oven. I missed the first phase of color change where the ears turn faint pinkish blue…shortly after the whole part turns this bright violet. From this point it slowly turns brighter (like towards red.



Now, I was pulling the temp from the body (which in hind sight was my next DUMB idea), and started the timer when it got to 395 which means it what…over cured but this time worse than anything I’ve over cured. At this point it’s a little comical.



But I knew how to adjust and nailed the next one.



And now I match to the sample to ensure the color is right. It’s damn spot on.



I’ll strip the first one tomorrow and re-coat tomorrow night. Feeling like I should stop right while I’m ahead.

 

[Jehannum]

@rattle_snake got me thinking that maybe, while I’m waiting, I should try a caliper. Why not…would be a good opportunity to show how these dormants work. It’s kinda cool.

Here’s the step I’m talking about - the base coat is “flashing” starting out at the ears and works into the body. Remember that this needs to be pulled just after it flashes so if it takes a few minutes for the center ti flash, the the clear won’t stick to the ears because they would have started to cure.



This is after the whole part had flashes. It turns out that if I get it out exactly as the body flashes, the ears don’t start to cure (or cure enough) messing with the clear.



Clear, when it sticks correctly, should look like this - even coat over the entire part, so this looks good or how it’s supposed to.



Back in the oven. I missed the first phase of color change where the ears turn faint pinkish blue…shortly after the whole part turns this bright violet. From this point it slowly turns brighter (like towards red.



Now, I was pulling the temp from the body (which in hind sight was my next DUMB idea), and started the timer when it got to 395 which means it what…over cured but this time worse than anything I’ve over cured. At this point it’s a little comical.



But I knew how to adjust and nailed the next one.



And now I match to the sample to ensure the color is right. It’s damn spot on.



I’ll strip the first one tomorrow and re-coat tomorrow night. Feeling like I should stop right while I’m ahead.

Any chance you can pre-heat the part before coating?

That'd reduce the heat delta between different parts, if you got them all to a consistent temperature beforehand (calling back to the FEA part of my masters from 10 years ago, lol). I think I'd probably sit them all in an oven and bring them to a consistent 50-ish degrees below cure temp for a good long while and give it a whirl then.

 

[no704]

Back in the Covid days my little company flipped to making face shields. We would poly bag each unit separately then put the batch in an oven at (I think) at 190f. We got a used walk-in proofing oven from a friend that is a reseller. Was from a Costco pizza shop. Had to modify the thermocouple system to get it to that temperature. Was a chore keeping the fans running. But it would handle 12 bakers racks at a time. Was like 5’ x 10’ inside.

 

[lilscorpion]

Any chance you can pre-heat the part before coating?

That'd reduce the heat delta between different parts, if you got them all to a consistent temperature beforehand (calling back to the FEA part of my masters from 10 years ago, lol). I think I'd probably sit them all in an oven and bring them to a consistent 50-ish degrees below cure temp for a good long while and give it a whirl then.

Coating a pre-heated part is called “hot flocking” (don’t ask me why ). It’s a process that coaters use in certain situations however it’s not ideal because you can quickly apply too much materials and get runs.

When you powder coat normally (the part is under 100*), the static charges part will only allow you to apply so much powder. It really does just stop sticking. You can get it to pile on horizontal surfaces (because gravity can’t allow it to fall off), but otherwise, only the amount that sticks will stay on the part. It’s maybe the best part of coating over painting.

Conversely, when you hot flock, the material starts its curing process as it hits the part more or less overcoming the adhesion that the static charge creates. Hot flocking is important tho. In the case where you’re applying a 2 coat system, I’d you don't pull the part after it gels, and before it starts to cure, the partial cure will impede the static charge from working on the second coat which then causes bare patches in the finish. Let me see if I have a pic to illustrate…see at the then end of this control arm the silver specs? The clear wasn’t deep/thick enough so the magic didn’t happen.



You overcome the static adhesion problem the partial cure created, you have to heat the part a little and shoot it hot…just being very careful to not over coat and create runs.

Now, there are some parts where gravity actually works in your favor, where runs are not a big concern, and gravity actually enables the thicker coat to turn out well. Example? Coil springs.



Coil springs have a very consistent thickness so they heat very evenly. Their shape also encourages a run to flow down the shape versus develops a drip at an edge…because there’s no edges. Hot flocking, If you need to, works great as you don’t 3x coat it. Literally gorgeous.

 

[lilscorpion]

Back in the Covid days my little company flipped to making face shields. We would poly bag each unit separately then put the batch in an oven at (I think) at 190f. We got a used walk-in proofing oven from a friend that is a reseller. Was from a Costco pizza shop. Had to modify the thermocouple system to get it to that temperature. Was a chore keeping the fans running. But it would handle 12 bakers racks at a time. Was like 5’ x 10’ inside.

For what I would do, and oven like that would be awesome and way overkill (but AWESOME!!). I suspect the key to getting consistent temps throughout an oven is airflow and enough that air moves frequently top to bottom (and vise versa) but not so violently that powder doesn’t stay on the parts. From what I’ve read, some are able to keep within a 5-10 degree differential.

 

[lilscorpion]

Got the second caliper re-coated. I got it figured out now.



Reassembled them. Got to use my Dana 60 seal driver.



These metal finished nicely.



Maybe nicer than I had intended.



On to the caliper stands.



Finally I can give you guys a preview of what it’s going to look like



Wrapped up the control arms today as well. Realized I’m short two Johnny Joints so I got them ordered. This is the first shot that really does capture the electric nature of this color.



Thanks for following along.

 

[bugnut]

AWESOME absolutely beautiful!

 

[Monza Harry]

Matt for your uneven material/temp distribution (the steel not powder) borrow a page from the heat treaters and heat slower with temp stops along the way. The thicker parts need a "heat soak" to allow for even arrival at the desired temp. Not sure if/how the slower ramp up will affect the cure of the powder, but I think a trial run will shed some light on the results. Just something that struck me while catching up on your thread. Harry

 

[Strouty]

Dang phone, posted in the wrong thread, but beautiful turnout on the parts!

 

[lilscorpion]

Matt for your uneven material/temp distribution (the steel not powder) borrow a page from the heat treaters and heat slower with temp stops along the way. The thicker parts need a "heat soak" to allow for even arrival at the desired temp. Not sure if/how the slower ramp up will affect the cure of the powder, but I think a trial run will shed some light on the results. Just something that struck me while catching up on your thread. Harry

Powder should only be in the curing range for as short of a time as possible. If it’s in the curing range too long it can impact the finish - flat Conor’s may not flatten, gloss may not be glossy, etc). This is why pre heating the oven is so important.

I’ve tried cheating by pulling the part from the oven before the curing rang starts to let the thinner areas cool for a minute and then put it back in. It might work or help if I could figure out the timing and for how long. It’s a good idea, just not sure I can figure it out when I coat onesies-twosies.

 

[lilscorpion]

Second pair of coils done



Almost ready for the diff install

 

[lilscorpion]

Got to spend a little time on the ‘06. Andrew is thinking we should rename it “Project Boost Leak”. I kinda agree. Seems the factory parts weren’t exactly designed for boost and as a result, we have some. Boost leaks are kinda hard to isolate from the driver’s seat. Ordered this tool to see if we could charge the system and diagnose while under the hood. More or less you replace the filter with this and the charge the system with shop air.



And this is what we found on first charge.

Freakin found it in like 20 seconds. As it turned out, the Idle Air Control valve (IAC) had screws that have backed off since we replaced the throttle body. An easy fix. We also found a few other things and fixed them all.

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice job finding the leak Matt. I use my Kent Moore leak detector quite a lot when working on diesels as like you say, they are hard to find from the driver's seat and using shop air, an ear or even a bottle of soapy water are usally all that's needed to locate even a rather small leak.

 

[lilscorpion]

Tackled the front calipers and stanchions today. Clearly Dynatrac is using reman brake parts. Check out how these were “cleaned” and painted.



They pained over the last man’s grease. LOL



That’s not very “high end”. Had to sand blast them anyway so it got handled. Now that’s like new.



And no more grease hiding under paint.



I’m sure by now you’re tired of seeing powder coating. Trust me, me too. In learning, I’ve coated most parts a few times. When I did mine for my Jeep I did them all in about 4 hours. I’m at about 30. No ****…but they look sweet.



In the sunlight they’re bangin.

 

[Bob Heine]

Matt, please continue sharing your work, whether it's powder coating, machining or storage solutions. It's so much better than my "powder coating," which is better known as dust.

 

[lilscorpion]

A couple of new toys in motion this holiday weekend - a heat sink for welding v-band clamps made by Ticon Industries (same company as Stainless Bros).



This thing is made out of Tellurium Copper which is many times more capable of heat transfer than aluminum…but quite a bit heavier in your hand. More or less I welded jumping 90 degrees on the flange non stop and then the heat sink allows the metal to cool at a consistent rate evenly which means no warping.



Andrew, as all juniors do, couldn’t fathom running cats or a muffler. ‘Cept Uncle Sam kinda wants him to run the Jeep on a dyno for emissions purpose so dads gotta help him cross the line.



Cut the cat into the exhaust in the factory location and then made a delete for it so he could get back to being a kid.



I am by no means a pro at TIG but I’m happy with the results.



Also tried my “Moose knuckle” for the first time. Feels cool to have on the torch. It worked as it should too. The shield/guard is titanium.



Hope everyone is enjoying their holiday weekend!

 

[lilscorpion]

Have a backlog of sorts. Need to swap in some stiffer springs on the 4-door JK. Needed to get them coated and, with Ashlyn’s parts done, I could load white into the gun.



A pair of 275 lb springs and a set of 325’s…



Wrapped up the day with coating the part I initially made the oven for - my JK’s 2 1/2 ton tie rod.



Turned out awesome.

 

[lilscorpion]

It’s go time



Snip, snip



A little fussin, around and the 60 managed it’s way out of the crate and onto the dolly. Helps I’ve done this just a few times. At this point I’ve got it down to science without hurting the back.



I’ll be keeping the shocks, kinda cool when the PO actually bought reasonably nice parts AND they’re still new.



Got the JKS drip brackets installed. Though there are many companies that make drop brackets, only one company makes the drop brackets in my JK that handles so awesome at 100 mph (yeah, no joke).



I’m going to set the initial length to be 1/2” shorter than my JK because I’m not going to attempt to run 40’s….so some of the “adjustments” just aren’t necessary.



Dialed in the uppers at 19 7/8”.



Went to bolt them in and…the Johnny Joints were wide enough. Uh…what?!?! Turned out I ordered JJ’s with the width to be used in a trac bar setup.,,damn it.



Fortunately I had another set with the correct width. This kinda situation is totally common in my shop. I have so many odds and ends parts left over from various projects that I tend to grow. The wrong ones thinking I’m good.

With the arms now at the correct width, I went to put the 12mm (factory) bolt in and it was sloppy as $hit…now what? Turns out the JKS drop brackets are designed to use the factory 12mm bolts and the Johnny joints I have are for 1/2” bolt. Dumb, they look the same.



Oh bruh… that’s not even the end of it. The freaking RockJock upper c’s have 1/2” holes and the factory bushings are 12mm. Ha!!



For fun I measured the factory housing, yup it’s the same. Ok, clearly my “box of left overs” is killing me today. To celebrate my luck I placed an order for all the right parts.

 

[zmotorsports]

Lookin' good Matt. I'm dumbfounded that Dynatrac's brake calipers were in such poor condition. That's a little disheartening from such a reputable company. I have not seen that before from them, but again, I haven't purchased a new Dynatrac axle for almost 3 years now.

 

[lilscorpion]

Lookin' good Matt. I'm dumbfounded that Dynatrac's brake calipers were in such poor condition. That's a little disheartening from such a reputable company. I have not seen that before from them, but again, I haven't purchased a new Dynatrac axle for almost 3 years now.

Everything else about the axles are super nice so it is fairly unfortunate in the choice they made especially given how much they cost.

 

[lilscorpion]

After pulling one of the drop brackets and attempting to drill. The hole to 1/2” I realized that the holes are correctly sized but the factory powder coating was just so think they had become under sized. With the upper arms in now, we resumed install.



Arms look extremely purple, almost black within the shadows of the Jeep but look a lot better with a little light.



With the caliper stanchions on, Ashlyn worked on installing the calipers she had assembled the previous day.



Once we had them on, she looked at me, smiled, and said - we need more purple!



So we installed the front coils. Ha!



Ashlyn had plans for later in the evening so I did a few things on the front end. While tinkering I realized that this Dynatrac axle has an entirely different diff cover than mine does, it’s been completely redesigned.

Top driver side of mine has a consistent edge with a casting rib that runs to the corner. As a result, mine had issues with rubbing on the trac bar at full stuff.



The new cover has changed the rib location and a relief built into it to allow more clearance at the trac bar.



Mine has slightly built up casting around the lowe bolts to protect them. Maybe a 1/4” or so.



Hers is significantly beefier around the bolts which helps them now be set in the full depth of the bolt head.



I also got the tires swapped on to a set of 8-lug wheels but failed to get pics. We’ll get them installed hopefully tonight.

 

[rattle_snake]

Smart move to go 60 instead of pouring $$ in a 44. Nice progress.

 

[lilscorpion]

Smart move to go 60 instead of pouring $$ in a 44. Nice progress.

Yah, a 44 can be a bottomless pit of upgrades resulting in Dana 60 expense anyway if you’re not careful only to break a housing or axle anyway. Learned long ago that the one-time expense of a 60 is just easier overall if you can stomach the initial hit.

 

[loganb]

I think you're going to need to get used to driving down the front range and across the boring-ness that is eastern CO and western Kansas as that Jeep will look amazing and fit in perfectly when she attends K-State for college

Seriously stellar work as always, love following along!

 

[lilscorpion]

Family induced break from shop projects, met my parents in Hiltonhead South Carolina.



Went “fishing”. Initially I thought it was for fish and we did catch a few, but way more sharks. Wife caught the first, a 2 1/2 foot Atlantic Sharp Nose.



Then, like she’s mocking us, she snagged a 6-8” Black Tip.




But the kids and I rallied. I caught a nearly 3 foot Bell Head.



Which had a hammer like head. Lot more meat here than the pics give justice.



We caught dozens of 6-10” black tip and Atlantic sharp nose but this was by far my favorite - a baby hammer head. They’re amazing creatures.



We caught others and the biggest were bull sharks.



My daughter caught the biggest bull shark. I actually had to step in at the last minute to help. Just over 3 feet i length, plenty of girth. Amazing creatures, fantastic trip

 

[Firstram]

Fun stuff!

 

[bugnut]

Outstanding family outing and catching something also! WOW! Love the coast and fishing, in SC.