Fact: Two types of 9/32 drive Snap-On Sockets

[SOCKETS]

QUICK FACT: There are 2 Types of 9/32 drive sockets.

Square corners drive: made every year while they were manufactured.

Round corners drive: only made in 1945 midget set.

Some people confuse 1940 sockets with 1945 do to stamp sometimes being deformed.
Heres a quick way to distinguish them.

1945 9/32 drive sockets work mostly with 1945 9/32 drive midget tools with a few exceptions do to drive corners being round.

some discard sockets believing they are defective.

 

[snapmom]

There is a change in 6 and 12 points in diff years too. Also the 20s ones are diff.. and then there are the copper ones.

 

[d42jeep]

QUICK FACT: There are 2 Types of 9/32 drive sockets.

Square corners drive: made every year while they were manufactured.

Round corners drive: only made in 1945 midget set.

Some people confuse 1940 sockets with 1945 do to stamp sometimes being deformed.
Heres a quick way to distinguish them.

1945 9/32 drive sockets work mostly with 1945 9/32 drive midget tools with a few exceptions do to drive corners being round.

some discard sockets believing they are defective.

Pictures would be useful.
-Don

 

[SOCKETS]

Pictures would be useful.

-Don

not allowed, new member.

 

[d42jeep]

not allowed, new member.

Just make a few more posts.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Hi Don.

I think by "round corners drive" the OP is referring to the chamfering on the drive studs.

Here are some tools I just pulled out. Pic for context. Pic 2 for zoom.

On the left are some "E" (1943/44) dated handles and on the right a couple "G" dated handles. The "E" tools have crisp corners. The "G" tools are chamfered.

Personally, I have never been inclined to consider it a different drive "type." I thought it was just a different finishing effect, and fairly innocuous. I have never encountered a single issue turning ANY prewar or wartime Snap-on 9/32-inch drive socket with a "G" dated Snap-on handle. Nor would I expect it.

Moreover, I am disinclined, without documentation, to believe that any mfgr, especially one who prided itself and staked its entire name on interchangeability, would intentionally introduce such any variation in the same drive size that might make handles and sockets made in adjacent years incompatible.

But, I don't have any "G" sockets. If they're "rounded" in the corners of the female drive opening, to match the chamfered corners of the "G" drive studs, I can see how that would be an issue with the sharp right angle corners on prewar and wartime male drive studs through 1944.

I never really thought about that before.

Looking forward to pics from the OP. Or snapmom. Or anyone else.

 

[SOCKETS]

Hi Don.

I think by "round corners drive" the OP is referring to the chamfering on the drive studs.

Here are some tools I just pulled out. Pic for context. Pic 2 for zoom.

On the left are some "E" (1943/44) dated handles and on the right a couple "G" dated handles. The "E" tools have crisp corners. The "G" tools are chamfered.

Personally, I have never been inclined to consider it a different drive "type." I thought it was just a different finishing effect, and fairly innocuous. I have never encountered a single issue turning ANY prewar or wartime Snap-on 9/32-inch drive socket with a "G" dated Snap-on handle. Nor would I expect it.

Moreover, I am disinclined, without documentation, to believe that any mfgr, especially one who prided itself and staked its entire name on interchangeability, would intentionally introduce such any variation in the same drive size that might make handles and sockets made in adjacent years incompatible.

But, I don't have any "G" sockets. If they're "rounded" in the corners of the female drive opening, to match the chamfered corners of the "G" drive studs, I can see how that would be an issue with the sharp right angle corners on prewar and wartime male drive studs through 1944.

I never really thought about that before.

Looking forward to pics from the OP. Or snapmom. Or anyone else.

9/32 G sockets, do not fit any 1930s 9/32 wood handle drivers and a few from the 1940s as chamber has round corners on sockets. i have almost every set from 1920s- 1930s and 1940s. Hopefully i get credit for this discovery LOL

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Interesting. That kind of intentional incompatibility is very strange and illogical in the commercial sector. If anything, it smacks of anti-tampering designs. I wonder if the chamfered variant isn't a production year difference, but a peculiar customer difference that happens to be very or even exclusively confined to that year. Air Corps, for example. In that kind of scenario, they didn't think the tools would ever be incompatible, between a commercial and military (or industrial) market. Only the passage of decades and proprietary expirations intermingled them.

EDIT: When you can, please post some photos of the inside of a 1945 "G" stamped socket.

 

[bmwrd0]

If I remember correctly, Plomb 9/32 WF sockets wouldn't fit on the wood handled 9/32 driver I used to have. So, take that for what it is worth.

 

[SOCKETS]

Interesting. That kind of intentional incompatibility is very strange and illogical in the commercial sector. If anything, it smacks of anti-tampering designs. I wonder if the chamfered variant isn't a production year difference, but a peculiar customer difference that happens to be very or even exclusively confined to that year. Air Corps, for example. In that kind of scenario, they didnt think the tools would ever be incompatible, between a commercial and military (or industrial) market. Only the passage of decades and proprietary expirations intermingled them.

Could be as they were government.

in 1944 there were a total of 3 sets that i know of.
i believe they stopped the 1/4 set that same year, as in 1945 i have only seen a 9/32 set.

1/4 Tm set- 1944
1/4 Tm-e set (all tools marked -E at end of part number, plain smooth sockets no vertical lines stamped.) - 1944
9/32 M set -1944

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's a good point. They were no longer advertising 9/32-inch drive tools in their catalog or commercial trade mags. Still, can you imagine the guy behind the cage in the tool room, at Sinclair Oil, or at the Battalion Motor Pool, wondering why the mechanics keep bringing him back brand new Snap-on tools that won't fit their old Snap-on tools?

 

[snapmom]

A 36 driver with a NOS G socket
A G ratchet with a NOS 38 socket


I do not remember seeing a G in 1/4 either

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A 36 driver with a NOS G socket

So much for the supposed incompatibility! Thanks for the demonstration, snapmom. If you don't mind, I'm very anxious to see the inside of the drive opening on the G socket. If you can capture it. Please.

 

[snapmom]

Years ago, a guy in TX came across almost a full crate of these sockets, most still in the factory packs, you could get them for about 15.00 shipped, and he would throw in a loose socket with the pack. They were the hard to find 1/2 inch.


SOCKETS: do you have any 9/32 drive sockets with a 43 code?

 

[SOCKETS]

So much for the supposed incompatibility! Thanks for the demonstration, snapmom. If you don't mind, I'm very anxious to see the inside of the drive opening on the G socket. If you can capture it. Please.

Got permission to pst pics: 1944 9/32 driver and 1945 G socket does not fit.

 

[SOCKETS]

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[SOCKETS]

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[SOCKETS]

So much for the supposed incompatibility! Thanks for the demonstration, snapmom. If you don't mind, I'm very anxious to see the inside of the drive opening on the G socket. If you can capture it. Please.

uploaded some pics, check them out. Some 1930 drivers will very in size do alloy being softer and with the wear can be forced into socket.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[SOCKETS]

Years ago, a guy in TX came across almost a full crate of these sockets, most still in the factory packs, you could get them for about 15.00 shipped, and he would throw in a loose socket with the pack. They were the hard to find 1/2 inch.


SOCKETS: do you have any 9/32 drive sockets with a 43 code?

here is a different 9/32 G socket with a 1942 driver


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, post #16 good view.

 

[SOCKETS]

Years ago, a guy in TX came across almost a full crate of these sockets, most still in the factory packs, you could get them for about 15.00 shipped, and he would throw in a loose socket with the pack. They were the hard to find 1/2 inch.


SOCKETS: do you have any 9/32 drive sockets with a 43 code?

part number M-16. 1/2” 9/32 drive. i have a few from 1945 only. i dont have any midget stuff from 1943 one of the sets im missing 100%.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[snapmom]

Welcome to the GJ, lots of info here.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Would there be a difference between wartime and post-war “G” sockets and drive tools?

 

[SOCKETS]

Would there be a difference between wartime and post-war “G” sockets and drive tools?

only difference after 1945 most sets are 1/4” drive instead of 9/32”drive.

there are some later years that actually had 9/32 sets
a few that i know of:
PM- set 9/32” drive 1947
M- set 9/32” drive 1956
PM- set 9/32” drive 1969


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The aerospace industry had a strong preference for the extra 1/32nd and that lasted for quite some time, until precision power tools became the standard. It basically comes down to shear, with 9/32-inch drive sockets breaking less frequently than 1/4-inch drive sockets due to 25% greater steel.

Here are some very fuzzy square drive shear calculations I still have from a similar conversation...

T = 0.208fS^3 for a square shaft, where T = torsional moment, and a safe f for Alloy Steel is given as 9000 psi:

0.208x9000x0.01563 for 1/4” drive = 29 foot-lbs
0.208x9000x0.02224 for 9/32” drive = 41 foot-lbs

 

[tin medic]

All 9/32 drive is the same. You may find changes in the metal cause inconsistencies or deformities in the metal but the sizes remain the same. My 34 SO 9/32 set also fits 9/32 sockets in other years to include 40-45. There are some sockets that no longer fit on the drivers of any year. I have a 45 9/32 socket that won't fit on a 45 9/32 driver.

This issue popped up on the Plomb forum a few years ago when we found that some 1/2 drive WF-38-T ratchets wouldn't fit on all extensions.

 

[SOCKETS]

All 9/32 drive is the same. You may find changes in the metal cause inconsistencies or deformities in the metal but the sizes remain the same. My 34 SO 9/32 set also fits 9/32 sockets in other years to include 40-45. There are some sockets that no longer fit on the drivers of any year. I have a 45 9/32 socket that won't fit on a 45 9/32 driver.

This issue popped up on the Plomb forum a few years ago when we found that some 1/2 drive WF-38-T ratchets wouldn't fit on all extensions.

G sockets are different. Check pictures above, i showed a few examples of driver not fitting G sockets. i currently now own approximately 80+ midget sets i would know. here are a few examples im completing at home. As specified some 1930s wood drivers work, do to alloy manufacturing varying in sizing and some having wear do to use as alloy is much softer. you can actually feel the different pressure used to attached both driver and socket, is off.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[d42jeep]

I have one G marked socket and it will only fit on G marked drive tools. I also have what I think is a postwar but undated socket which fits all of the drive tools. My opinion is that Snap-on realized that making 1945 sockets only fit 1945 drive tools was a foolish error on their part and changed it quickly.
-Don

 

[SOCKETS]

I have one G marked socket and it will only fit on G marked drive tools. I also have what I think is a postwar but undated socket which fits all of the drive tools. My opinion is that Snap-on realized that making 1945 sockets only fit 1945 drive tools was a foolish error on their part and changed it quickly.

-Don

Yes that makes my case. 1945 are different


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[tin medic]

Don, I don't buy that SO made them different for 1945. First, the government wouldn't have allowed it. That would have meant that their tools wouldn't have been interchangeable with stuff they already had in the pipeline. Second, the government would not have taken the chance that the new design would be incompatible with other manufacturers that were also providing 9/32 drive tools. Third, SO would know this and would they really bet huge contracts and their reputation on it? Probably not.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you've been reading my comments all along, you know I'm with you on it being illogical, tin. But, there has to be an explanation for the chamfering. I wondered upthread if it might be a specific contract. Another theory is just a defective run or two or three. Lastly, maybe they outsourced some of the production to keep up with contract demands. But intentional wholesale tool and die change for a year still seems implausible to me.

 

[SOCKETS]

Don, I don't buy that SO made them different for 1945. First, the government wouldn't have allowed it. That would have meant that their tools wouldn't have been interchangeable with stuff they already had in the pipeline. Second, the government would not have taken the chance that the new design would be incompatible with other manufacturers that were also providing 9/32 drive tools. Third, SO would know this and would they really bet huge contracts and their reputation on it? Probably not.

you will only see round corners on 1945 sockets.
LEFT SIDE SQUARE CORNERS: Every set
RIGHT SIDE ROUND CORNERS: 1945 set only



Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[d42jeep]

Don, I don't buy that SO made them different for 1945. First, the government wouldn't have allowed it. That would have meant that their tools wouldn't have been interchangeable with stuff they already had in the pipeline. Second, the government would not have taken the chance that the new design would be incompatible with other manufacturers that were also providing 9/32 drive tools. Third, SO would know this and would they really bet huge contracts and their reputation on it? Probably not.

Tin,
I was totally with you until I dug out the one crappy G 9/32” drive socket that I had and it absolutely wouldn’t fit on the Blue Point 9/32” shorty spinner. I’ll send it to you in the next package and you can check it out. Obviously my sample is only one socket and I can’t say that every single 1945 socket is like mine. Hopefully this thread will lead to some more experimentation with found examples to see if it holds true across the board. I think it’s good that the OP brought it to our attention.
-Don

 

[snapmom]

A NOS G socket, measures a smaller corner to corner width, than a little use 42 tee. Some of my better 9/32 drivers do not fit the NOS G socket.

 

[MR.X]

i currently now own approximately 80+ midget sets i would know

Bro, ever see that Mel Gibson movie "Conspiracy Theory" where he's compelled to buy the book "Catcher in the Rye" over and over again?

 

[snapmom]

The No. 58 radio set.

 

[d42jeep]

I won’t cast any aspersions on the OP’s collection even though my case is milder and includes 1/4” drive tools. Just don’t mention Walden 1/4” drive stuff.

 

[SOCKETS]

The No. 58 radio set.

awesome complete set. im hoping someone can see 1930s PM-4 Wood driver set and a 1930s chicago set. Would Love to see that.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[MR.X]

I won’t cast any aspersions on the OP’s collection even though my case is milder and includes 1/4” drive tools. Just don’t mention Walden 1/4” drive stuff.

 

[SOCKETS]

I won’t cast any aspersions on the OP’s collection even though my case is milder and includes 1/4” drive tools. Just don’t mention Walden 1/4” drive stuff.

some nice sets, every time i see midget sets i wish i owned them all. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app