Fair price to install electrical service?

[Miller54z]

Getting ready to have underground power ran to the shop from the transformer servicing the house. Looking at about 400’ of trenched line inside of conduit from the transformer to the service panel on the new building- figuring on a 200A service. Our contractor just quoted $9,000 for copper and almost $7,000 for aluminum (we had always planned on copper but I think he included aluminum as another option to make it seem affordable). This supposedly would include the line, service panel, meter, and one light on a switch to pass inspection.

This sounds unreasonably high to me, but I have no experience in this area so I’m looking for some experience or opinions from others as to whether this seems like a fair price. Our builder originally had a $4,000 allowance for electric in the contract, so I am shocked at the price being more than double what was planned- especially trying to keep things within our budget at the end of the project. This works out to about $22/foot of wire…which to me seems exceptionally expensive- even for copper. The building is in central Florida, so trenching should be easy and our labor and material costs here are usually below average compared to the rest of the country.

Does anyone have any experience in this area, or prices/quotes from other projects? Any ideas on how to reduce this cost? I suppose I could install the light & switch, but don’t think that will save much. I would think the power company should at least pay for the meter, but I could be wrong about that as well. Please let me know if you have any comparisons or ideas; thanks in advance for your time.

-Matt

 

[kd3pc]

I would clear up what this estimate includes...from the size and type of CU or AL ....down to the last switch plate and by when it will be installed.

and where you are in FL...bigger city...more $$. Rural, less $ - usually

Trenching alone varies from $4-10 per foot, assuming you can get a ditchwitch in and a path from one end to the other. Backhoe required - more money.

the trench will likely need to be 18-24" deep (Check with the AHJ). Add the price of the conduit, fittings, placement and so on.. THen pulling 400' of cable to get 200Amp and proper voltage at the other end.

Seems pretty reasonable to me..others will chime in.

 

[Radix2]

Is this a completely new service? New meter, fed from transformer? Not from your house panel?

In MI and I think most of the country, the utility owns the wire up to the meter and specs how it is done. Here and just about everywhere it is aluminum and direct buried. There is zero reason to even consider copper.

I recently had a new underground service installed it was only about 130 ft to the transformer - the utility charged me about $600 installed for the wire from the meter to the transformer. 400a service, direct buried, aluminum. Meter pan and all other electrical was extra and from my contractor. The utility gave the option that I could install conduit to the transformer, and they would wire, but that would have costed 2x.. and if there is ever an issue with the service, it is their wire and responsibility to fix.

So, I don't know what all is involved with your estimate, but at first glance I would knock off that 2 grand. And unless there is a Florida thing about service entrances being done in conduit, I'd get rid of that too... you have conduit feeding your house meter?

 

[driftpin]

We did a new service laid underground for our whole-house re-model. It's in conduit. We're in the Miami-Dade Co. Florida area.

 

[ard]

You need to find out what that 9000/7000 is actually buying you. Not by asking the contractor- by understanding the rules and requirements for your service

Every power company has different rules on service- what they pay, what you pay, what needs to be done... and this can change based on home versus 'second service to a shop'. You need to educate yourself. Unless someone is your neighbor and posting here (ie is being served by your specific utility) the situation may change. I can tell you about PGE in northern CA, but that wont help. "central Florida" doesnt help either.

 

[jim111]

Sounds to me like your building contractor low balled you on an estimate of 4000k. Maybe he didn't understand the scope of the work to be done

 

[8mpg]

Im looking here in Texas and the power company wants $13.75/foot. That includes trenching, conduit and wire only. No meter base or wiring from the meter base to the electrical pane.

There is no reason to run copper when aluminum feeder can be used. Its much cheaper and works just as well.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Im looking here in Texas and the power company wants $13.75/foot.

For a buried 200 amp service in conduit? I'm guessing your power company is subsidizing the cost of installation, that price sounds extremely low. For that matter the original poster's price seems low as well, but I do realize costs will vary depending on where a person lives.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

If it makes you feel better I got quoted $3500 with a margin to go up. I would dig the trench 100' buy the conduit and lay it in the trench, and have them run the wire and the bare minimum to pass inspection. I kindly declined......

 

[6768rogues]

Here overhead service is the power company's responsibility and cost to the knob on the building, wired to your weatherhead pigtails.
Underground is strictly at the owner's expense. The power company won't do it even if you pay them, they don't want anything to do with it. You have to get it installed and inspected and then the power company will energize it. The power company pays for the meter. When I did mine 30 years ago, the power company dropped off the meter box for me to install. Now they don't even supply that.
If underground wiring to the building goes bad, the power company will not fix it.

 

[Miller54z]

Thank you all for the different perspectives; it will help when I email the builder later tonight to sort out the details. This is new service to a second building on a 10-acre property in a rural area just outside Daytona. So far, I just know that conduit is required, and FPL (Florida Power & Light) will not pay for any of it- I believe because it is a second building (they already paid to get power to the transformer from the house). The builder thought he could maybe get them to pay for part of it, which is why he included such a low allowance. Maybe if they let me trench it and install conduit it would save some $$; I can certainly run a trencher. Just to clarify a couple of the replies- there is no reason why I should run copper instead of aluminum? What about corrosion issues and conductivity?

 

[ard]

Thank you all for the different perspectives; it will help when I email the builder later tonight to sort out the details. This is new service to a second building on a 10-acre property in a rural area just outside Daytona. So far, I just know that conduit is required, and FPL (Florida Power & Light) will not pay for any of it- I believe because it is a second building (they already paid to get power to the transformer from the house). The builder thought he could maybe get them to pay for part of it, which is why he included such a low allowance. Maybe if they let me trench it and install conduit it would save some $$; I can certainly run a trencher. Just to clarify a couple of the replies- there is no reason why I should run copper instead of aluminum? What about corrosion issues and conductivity?

lol Understand how life works...the builder knows PRECISELY what he is doing. "Thought he could 'get' them to pay for part of it"?????

How about "I lowballed it, as I didnt want to scare you off with a real quote. Since it is an allowance, I know that I am 100% protected, -YOU will be paying the real cost no matter what- so it was a no risk to me tactic".

(An dentist acquaintance of mine was very proud when he was negotiating a new home- he confided in me that he had hammered on the contractor, driving down the pool allowance, and saying "I knew the pool could be done for $20k". The contractor had a $28k allowance, and was 'forced' to lower it to 20k. They wound up over 30. And the contractor charged him 10% of all change orders too.

On point with your project- there is absolutely NO reason to run copper. It is in conduit; it is protected from corrosion when properly installed; when properly engineered the conductivity, etc, is all taken into account.

Have you worked out any issues around how a second meter will be billed? In some states, a second meter may see a different rate. (I guess assuming this is a second service, correct??) Make sure it isnt better to feed it off the house. Also, you really need 200 for that shop? What size Aluminum are they saying you need? We can check the voltage drop for you....

I would get MULTIPLE additional bids. Is this from your friendly contractors electrician buddy??? One thing you might say, at least for bid purposes- is that you will handle the trenching. At this point, I wouldnt get into specifics with them- just for the purposes of the bid- "service, conduit and wire, I handle trenching". Electricians dont trench, so it might make the bid cleaner and cheaper.

my 2 cents

 

[8mpg]

For a buried 200 amp service in conduit? I'm guessing your power company is subsidizing the cost of installation, that price sounds extremely low. For that matter the original poster's price seems low as well, but I do realize costs will vary depending on where a person lives.

I live in Texas...I dont think its too expensive. Aluminum 4/0,4/0,2/0 feeder is about $4/ft. Labor is pretty cheap and permits are only $50 in my area. The power company is responsible for all wiring up to the meter. They (or their contractor) is the only people that can install feeder up to the meter.

 

[Rbreddin]

there are very real reasons and places to use copper, primary and secondary service entrance conductors are almost always aluminum (depending on the size of the service and whether or not the service is being pulled through conduit or is direct burial)

Aluminum will work, but will absolutely require larger conduit (and larger conductors often enough) than copper does.

 

[mcbane]

When you ask for more bids, inquire about putting a pole with meter and main breaker at your property line, if that is acceptable to you. If you can do that, most of your 400 ft may not require conduit, pull boxes, special backfill materials, or other utility requirements. You just need to meet the less stringent electrical code on your side of the meter so direct burial cable in a ditch witch trench would likely be ok.

 

[gnxtc2]

Getting ready to have underground power ran to the shop from the transformer servicing the house. Looking at about 400’ of trenched line inside of conduit from the transformer to the service panel on the new building- figuring on a 200A service. Our contractor just quoted $9,000 for copper and almost $7,000 for aluminum (we had always planned on copper but I think he included aluminum as another option to make it seem affordable). This supposedly would include the line, service panel, meter, and one light on a switch to pass inspection.

This sounds unreasonably high to me, but I have no experience in this area so I’m looking for some experience or opinions from others as to whether this seems like a fair price. Our builder originally had a $4,000 allowance for electric in the contract, so I am shocked at the price being more than double what was planned- especially trying to keep things within our budget at the end of the project. This works out to about $22/foot of wire…which to me seems exceptionally expensive- even for copper. The building is in central Florida, so trenching should be easy and our labor and material costs here are usually below average compared to the rest of the country.

Does anyone have any experience in this area, or prices/quotes from other projects? Any ideas on how to reduce this cost? I suppose I could install the light & switch, but don’t think that will save much. I would think the power company should at least pay for the meter, but I could be wrong about that as well. Please let me know if you have any comparisons or ideas; thanks in advance for your time.

-Matt

Around in the NYC area, that price is too cheap.

I charge $2500 for a 200A service upgrade (pipe, copper wire, Sq D QO/CH CH panel with breakers)

Lets break down your estimate: I'll use Home Cheapo pricing
- 400' of 2" conduit = $7.58 per stick is $3032
- 4/0 AL wire 400' x 3 = $1.15 per foot x 1200' = $1380
- 2/0 CU wire 400' x 3 = $2.40 per foot x 1200' = $2880
That's not including, glue, primer, fittings, buried electric tracer tape and you need more wire than conduit.

So, just wire/conduit alone is either $4410 AL wire or $5910 for CU wire.

So if you choose copper wire, that leaves $3090 for trenching, service panel, breakers, meter pan, ground rods, ground wire, and one light on a switch to pass inspection AND LABOR. With that 400' run, you want to at least have a pull box or two. You do the math. IMHO, your quote for $9000 is too cheap even for Florida labor. Material cost is more/less the same.

If I was going to do that job.....with that 400' run, the wire size should be increased along with the conduit size.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[like2wheel]

Around in the NYC area, that price is too cheap.

I charge $2500 for a 200A service upgrade (pipe, copper wire, Sq D QO/CH CH panel with breakers)

Lets break down your estimate: I'll use Home Cheapo pricing
- 400' of 2" conduit = $7.58 per stick is $3032
- 4/0 AL wire 400' x 3 = $1.15 per foot x 1200' = $1380
- 2/0 CU wire 400' x 3 = $2.40 per foot x 1200' = $2880
That's not including, glue, primer, fittings, buried electric tracer tape and you need more wire than conduit.

So, just wire/conduit alone is either $4410 AL wire or $5910 for CU wire.

So if you choose copper wire, that leaves $3090 for trenching, service panel, breakers, meter pan, ground rods, ground wire, and one light on a switch to pass inspection AND LABOR. With that 400' run, you want to at least have a pull box or two. You do the math. IMHO, your quote for $9000 is too cheap even for Florida labor. Material cost is more/less the same.

If I was going to do that job.....with that 400' run, the wire size should be increased along with the conduit size.

Billy T.
[email protected]

Might want to check your math on that conduit

 

[gnxtc2]

Might want to check your math on that conduit

Late night math

40 sticks x 7.58 = $303.20

Still too cheap.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[gnxtc2]

Might want to check your math on that conduit

Late night math

40 sticks x 7.58 = $303.20

$5738 left over to do there rest of the work/material.....Still too cheap.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[abgiles]

As others have questioned, what real loads are you running? 200A with a separate meter was what I wanted with my shop (30x60), but even with a 36K mini split (maximum run amps at 23A), I couldn't justify it. The local electricians (3 different companies) estimated my max load ever at 60A (3 ceiling fans, 18 LED lights, 2 mini splits, 1 small welder), and the difference in cost was amazing.

I am in Jacksonville, FL, and had 100' run of copper, trenched 18" deep, in conduit, installed from the house, with large subpanel, one outlet, and one light switch for $1000 even. I did contact FPL as well, and they did assure me that installing a meter would be 100% at my cost.

They did mention that a second meter would be billed at a lower rate, as it would be considered a business line (even though mine is not a business), but I didn't get quotes on the rates to compare.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This topic comes up several times per week and is pointless to discuss on the internet since prices vary by area and PoCo.

Many PoCos will run the service for free certain distances.

Also, type of soil will effect the cost of digging the trench.

 

[Miller54z]

Wow...just wanted to say how much I LOVE this board! The wealth of information available on here is astounding...

lol Understand how life works...the builder knows PRECISELY what he is doing. "Thought he could 'get' them to pay for part of it"?????

How about "I lowballed it, as I didnt want to scare you off with a real quote. Since it is an allowance, I know that I am 100% protected, -YOU will be paying the real cost no matter what- so it was a no risk to me tactic".

-Yep, sounds about right. This is my first time building, so now I know...


Have you worked out any issues around how a second meter will be billed? In some states, a second meter may see a different rate. (I guess assuming this is a second service, correct??) Make sure it isnt better to feed it off the house. Also, you really need 200 for that shop? What size Aluminum are they saying you need? We can check the voltage drop for you....

-All great points; asking all of those questions now...

I would get MULTIPLE additional bids. Is this from your friendly contractors electrician buddy??? One thing you might say, at least for bid purposes- is that you will handle the trenching. At this point, I wouldnt get into specifics with them- just for the purposes of the bid- "service, conduit and wire, I handle trenching". Electricians dont trench, so it might make the bid cleaner and cheaper.

-Working on additional bids. I already asked the builder about doing the trenching and conduit ourselves, and he said that would make it "much cheaper." Still waiting on the prices.

my 2 cents

 

[Miller54z]

When you ask for more bids, inquire about putting a pole with meter and main breaker at your property line, if that is acceptable to you. If you can do that, most of your 400 ft may not require conduit, pull boxes, special backfill materials, or other utility requirements. You just need to meet the less stringent electrical code on your side of the meter so direct burial cable in a ditch witch trench would likely be ok.

Yeah, I'm sure that would save a lot of $$, however, being in Florida I'd really like to keep everything underground due to storms/hurricanes. Also looks much nicer, and the power to the house is also underground to it only makes sense at this point to keep it all buried.

 

[Miller54z]

Late night math

40 sticks x 7.58 = $303.20

$5738 left over to do there rest of the work/material.....Still too cheap.

Billy T.
[email protected]

I'm actually shocked how much it costs for somebody to trench and run the conduit. I can rent a trencher for <$200 and trench 400' in probably about 3 hours. Running the conduit may take another 3hrs. That's less than a day's work plus about $600 in materials and equipment to possibly save thousands. Still waiting on exact numbers from the builder...

 

[Miller54z]

As others have questioned, what real loads are you running? 200A with a separate meter was what I wanted with my shop (30x60), but even with a 36K mini split (maximum run amps at 23A), I couldn't justify it. The local electricians (3 different companies) estimated my max load ever at 60A (3 ceiling fans, 18 LED lights, 2 mini splits, 1 small welder), and the difference in cost was amazing.

I am in Jacksonville, FL, and had 100' run of copper, trenched 18" deep, in conduit, installed from the house, with large subpanel, one outlet, and one light switch for $1000 even. I did contact FPL as well, and they did assure me that installing a meter would be 100% at my cost.

They did mention that a second meter would be billed at a lower rate, as it would be considered a business line (even though mine is not a business), but I didn't get quotes on the rates to compare.

We have some pretty high-amperage equipment (and some future plans for more) so I think the 200A service is a good idea:

-2x welders
-CNC plasma table
-several powder coating ovens
-2' exhaust fan on roof
-Large air compressor
-2 post lift
-Overhead hoist
-Large band saw/grinders/drill press/etc.

Add in central air, a water heater, and some large garage door openers- and I think it would be the safe way to go. Again, I'm no electrician- so I could be over-estimating- but the house has 200A service so I thought it made sense.

 

[Miller54z]

This topic comes up several times per week and is pointless to discuss on the internet since prices vary by area and PoCo.

Many PoCos will run the service for free certain distances.

Also, type of soil will effect the cost of digging the trench.

I'm not looking to compare exact prices, just wanted to see if the builder's quote sounded "reasonable" to those who have done something similar. I would have thought the builder's initial allowance of $4k would have covered it, and was shocked when he sent me the $9k figure.

Even more than that, I was looking for ideas to mitigate the costs, and have already gotten several: doing my own trenching and conduit, going with aluminum wire instead of copper, running the shop off the house meter or speaking with the power company about a lesser rate on a 2nd meter or 'business line,' or maybe even going with 100A service vs 200A.

I'm still waiting for the numbers from the builder, but I'm hoping that all of these factors combined will get me much closer to the $4k price tag instead of over $9k. That is the difference of keeping the project within my budget or possibly waiting several months before I can afford it.

Therefore, I hardly think this topic is worthless.