Federal Pacific Main

[Pig In A Poke]

Hello, we purchased a house a year ago this August and during the home inspection the inspector said that there had been issues with Federal Pacific mains but ours looked ok. I want to add a few 20 amp outlets in the garage as well as remove some of the older, no longer in use breakers. I will be calling a local electrician to inspect the panel and perhaps do the additions that I had in mind, but until then I though I would ask you all if I should have them replace the entire panel due to the issues with FPE or just leave it as is.

 

[Travv]

Replace, they don't call Federal Pacific "no blows" for nothing. Breakers are notorious for not tripping.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[cowboy73]

With all the bad stuff out there about those panels, I would replace it. I know it's a lot more money and hassle but piece of mind is worth a lot more. They have been known to cause fires. I wouldn't want to worry about it endangering my life and my family's lives.

 

[CoogarXR]

I don't know how an inspector can say it "looks ok"... As in what? No char marks? LOL.

Yeah, FPs are bad news. Just swap it out with something else.

 

[simpler=better]

Have a nice new square D with copper bus bars installed, and sleep well tonight.

 

[chops101]

I was in same boat, I googled FP and the horror stories.

Hired a licensed electrician to install new box (not that I couldn't, but hired out for HO insurance liability issues), and slept better at night for it.

Replace it.

 

[nsula_country]

The only way I would leave FPE in place is if I had the house insured at least 200% of its value and I did not sleep there! Seriously.

FPE and Zinsco panels are outdated, old (need replaced anyway) and unsafe. Electrical panels actually have a usable service life. I've read that 40+ year old panels should be replaced with a modern equivalent.

You will be wise to replace it with SquareD QO or Cutler-Hammer CH. I would not even mess with SqD Homeline, C-H BR, GE, ect either. These are builder grade. QO and CH are Heavy Duty Residential, Light Commercial. Siemens is another viable option if available in your area.

CT

 

[Speedy Petey]

Have a nice new square D with copper bus bars installed, and sleep well tonight.

Have ANY new name brand panel installed and sleep well.
The old "Sq D QO is better" philosophy is wildly over-rated, IMPO.

 

[nh_yota]

The problem with FPE breakers/panels is not that they spontaneously burst into flames, it's that they fail to trip when overloaded which could cause a fire in the panel or the wiring. However, any breaker that's 40+ years old can have the same problem purely because of its age.

It may cost you more money up front, but in the long run it's better to have the panel replaced with a new one and add circuits at that time. In addition, many municipalities require that when new circuits are added they must use ACFI breakers, which are not available for FPE panels.

 

[Speedy Petey]

In addition, many municipalities require that when new circuits are added they must use ACFI breakers, which are not available for FPE panels.

IMO this is the most valid reason if any work is being done.

 

[Pig In A Poke]

So just spit balling I'm probably between $2k-$3500?

Any other suggestions on boxes? I need 200 amp probably 30+ circuits. I am just trying to be as well informed as possible before calling for estimates. Thanks!

 

[nsula_country]

Major mfg panel, 42 slot. Nothing less. Try to get a premium panel (QO, CH), not builder grade (Homeline, BR, Murray, ext).

Good luck

CT

 

[nh_yota]

Usually the electrician you hire to do the work has a preference of which panel they like to use for various reasons. Eaton CH and Square D QO are the top end. Square D Homeline is more than adequate for your house and the breakers use the same internals as the QO.

 

[nsula_country]

Usually the electrician you hire to do the work has a preference of which panel they like to use for various reasons. Eaton CH and Square D QO are the top end. Square D Homeline is more than adequate for your house and the breakers use the same internals as the QO.

Can you back this up with documentation? How can this be factual when a QO breaker is more than a Homeline breaker?

I actually prefer Eaton CH, but Square D is also equal in quality. Not picking on you, I would just like to see documentation to back this up.

CT

 

[Norcal]

Can you back this up with documentation? How can this be factual when a QO breaker is more than a Homeline breaker?

I actually prefer Eaton CH, but Square D is also equal in quality. Not picking on you, I would just like to see documentation to back this up.

CT

I would not say a SQ D QO is equal quality to a Eaton CH. SQ D went cheap years ago.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Can you back this up with documentation? How can this be factual when a QO breaker is more than a Homeline breaker?

I actually prefer Eaton CH, but Square D is also equal in quality. Not picking on you, I would just like to see documentation to back this up.

CT

I'll turn the tables, do you have and substantiation that QO or CH is any better than the others?? Or are you simply basing this on price?

I don't know for fact, but I heard QO and HOM have the same trip mechanism, only QO had the indicator.

Many/most panel brands are available with a copper buss. My supply house stocks BR panels with copper buss for those that want them.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Directly from Schneider:

NOTE: Both the QO and Homeline branch circuit breakers have the same trip characteristics.

http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/faqs/FA124258/

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Only the stab lok FPE panels had issues but i wouldnt pass on replacing any POS FPE panel.

Swap that POS out and youll be good to go.

 

[cdestuck]

My neighbor had one and I showed him this. I took a wire running from the panel, took it out of the outlet box and had the power and neutral wire exposed and hot. I touched the 2 wires together, the sparks flew and kept flying. The breaker would not trip. I actually melted the 2 wires a good ways yet the breaker would not break.

 

[Pig In A Poke]

In addition, many municipalities require that when new circuits are added they must use ACFI breakers, which are not available for FPE panels.

As far as I can tell mine does not. Should this be something I should do anyways? I got a quote today and the electrician stated that it was entirely up to me, but warned me of a significant price difference in the materials.
Is there anything else I need to look at before proceeding?

 

[Norcal]

North Carolina according to Mike Holt's website has adopted the 2014, Effective 4/1/2016, so the damn things (AFCI's) are required almost everywhere and the requirement is triggered whenever you add circuits.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A buddy was selling a house he inherited and it had a Federal Pacific panel in it. The buyer wanted to knock $2000 off to replace it. I told my buddy to take that offer !

 

[Pig In A Poke]

So I have a 30 circuit panel in there now with 200 amp service. There are two HVAC units, dishwasher, range, two natural gas furnaces, refrigerator, small chest freezer, and receptacles and lighting for a 2500 sq.ft..

I want to add 8 110v receptacles in the garage, used for table saw, polishers, a mig welder, and a joiner down the line. I also want to add two 220v outlets for a larger welder down the line, and a window unit.

Should I be looking at a 40, a 42 circuit panel or a 54? Another 200 amp or a 225 amp?

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Should I be looking at a 40, a 42 circuit panel or a 54? Another 200 amp or a 225 amp?

A residential panel will be a 40, not 42 (unless it is a main-lug panel), but will likely now be a 40/80.
225A is really a commercial rating. If you were to somehow go with 225A everything would need to be changed, not juts the panel.

 

[Pig In A Poke]

No, it is a main breaker. So I should be looking at a 200 amp 40 circuit panel; either Eaton or Square D with copper bus bars...correct?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The only way I would leave FPE in place is if I had the house insured at least 200% of its value and I did not sleep there! Seriously.

FPE and Zinsco panels are outdated, old (need replaced anyway) and unsafe. Electrical panels actually have a usable service life. I've read that 40+ year old panels should be replaced with a modern equivalent.

You will be wise to replace it with SquareD QO or Cutler-Hammer CH. I would not even mess with SqD Homeline, C-H BR, GE, ect either. These are builder grade. QO and CH are Heavy Duty Residential, Light Commercial. Siemens is another viable option if available in your area.

CT

Theres nothing wrong with Sq-D homeline panels,The breakers are the same as qo internally other than the visa trip.
If you need a visa trip to tell you a bvreaker is tripped I dont know what to tell ya.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Can you back this up with documentation? How can this be factual when a QO breaker is more than a Homeline breaker?

I actually prefer Eaton CH, but Square D is also equal in quality. Not picking on you, I would just like to see documentation to back this up.

CT

Well I was told this by a rep from scneider/Sq-D at an open house at 3E/Formerly Electric Fixture and Supply,Our local Sq-D supply house.
Im willing to take his word for it.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I would not say a SQ D QO is equal quality to a Eaton CH. SQ D went cheap years ago.

Eaton/ch is not exactly what Id call top of the food chain by any means,Just a little higher up the food chain than ge in my book.
I have a tougher time making things look nice inside the eaton panels,Ill stick with the homeline equipt myself anyway.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Theres nothing wrong with Sq-D homeline panels,The breakers are the same as qo internally other than the visa trip.
If you need a visa trip to tell you a bvreaker is tripped I dont know what to tell ya.

In the Schneider (Square D) link I posted it says this as well.
IMO the main difference between QO and HOM is that QO has many more accessories/parts available for commercial applications.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

No, it is a main breaker. So I should be looking at a 200 amp 40 circuit panel; either Eaton or Square D with copper bus bars...correct?

I wouldnt worry so much about a copper buss myself anyway,copper oxidizes also.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

In the Schneider (Square D) link I posted it says this as well.
IMO the main difference between QO and HOM is that QO has many more accessories/parts available for commercial applications.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I wouldnt worry so much about a copper buss myself anyway,copper oxidizes also.

IMO it depends on the area. Constantly wet/humid and coastal areas would benefit from a copper buss panel. LI NY you will not see any AL wire or parts other than the utility drop. 150 miles north AL is used everywhere.

 

[Pig In A Poke]

I live in Charlotte, and the panel is in my garage. It is temp controlled but I have three young kids who leave every door open and every light on in their wake.

 

[Norcal]

I wouldnt worry so much about a copper buss myself anyway,copper oxidizes also.

copper oxide is a conductor, aluminum is not.

 

[Pig In A Poke]

Any opinions on this.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . your "inspector" screwed you . . . . no way that panel should have "been OK as is" for you to accept and pay full asking price on house. You should have received $1,500 to $2,000 reduction to replace panel with updated safe panel.

Listen to GJ Sparky's and replace with quality panel. Good luck.

 

[nsula_country]

Well I was told this by a rep from scneider/Sq-D at an open house at 3E/Formerly Electric Fixture and Supply,Our local Sq-D supply house.
Im willing to take his word for it.

Interesting... I believe y'all. I just wanted to have some documentation to back this statement up for future discussion so I would not look like an idiot. Makes me wonder if a Murray and Eaton BR are rebranded Homeline? They all physically interchange.

I use Eaton exclusively because we only have one supply house here, Elliott Electric. They are an C-H/Eaton distributor. I would have to drive 50 miles south or 70 miles north to find a Square D/Schneider distributor or a Home Depot, Lowes, Sutherlands.

It's a mixed bag at the building supply place. They carry a little of all brands (SQ D, Eaton, GE, Siemens, FPE replacement breakers, screw fuses) but usually not what you need at the time.

CT

 

[nsula_country]

Any opinions on this.

OP . . . your "inspector" screwed you . . . . no way that panel should have "been OK as is" for you to accept and pay full asking price on house. You should have received $1,500 to $2,000 reduction to replace panel with updated safe panel.

Listen to GJ Sparky's and replace with quality panel. Good luck.

Pig,

That panel will most likely suffice. But since you are hiring this out, I would either let the electrical contractor purchase or purchase exactly what they prefer to install and warranty.

CNGsaves,

Agree 100%

CT

 

[gooseberry1]

Guys Eaton has a retrofit interior that will bolt into that box and still be ul. Eaton makes most of the 1 inch breakers and even has a CL line of classified breakers that fit everyone's panel for the most part. If you look at the residential and light commercial catalog in the last part of that you will see BR retrofit interiors. You could use the CH breaker but no ul.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nsula_country]

Guys Eaton has a retrofit interior that will bolt into that box and still be ul. Eaton makes most of the 1 inch breakers and even has a CL line of classified breakers that fit everyone's panel for the most part. If you look at the residential and light commercial catalog in the last part of that you will see BR retrofit interiors. You could use the CH breaker but no ul.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was the most informative 1st post I have ever seen!

CT