Feeder install help

[black4.6gt]

Alright, please bear with me... I promise I have accomplished days of reading on this subject!

I am getting ready to run the wiring for my 100a sub panel in my new building. It is currently still under construction, but it is time for me to start digging my holes and trenches.

I am planning on placing a 2" sch 80 sweep from the bottom of my new sub panel in the slab, then trenching with sch 40 to the house at 24". I am also planning on using 1-1-1-3 MHF due to my 160'+/- run. Is 2" big enough? Any tips on handling this cable? I am a little OCD, so I would love for it to be neat and tidy in the panel. (I love pictures!)

Next, how in the world do you stuff this wire through the wall of the house from the conduit parallel to the siding? Use one of these?
And also, I wasn't sure if a 100a breaker in the house panel will take the #1 wire? It isn't listed online.

So I am looking for tips of the trade for actually being able to work with this stuff. "Difficult" appears to be an understatement.

Thank you!!

 

[black4.6gt]

Also forgot to ask, what is the putty type stuff that you put on the end of the conduit to seal it up? Or is it even worth it?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Wrap the conduit with sill seal from just below the level the concrete will be poured to just above the level of the concrete to be poured,3-4 wraps should do it.
On the house end add an expansion joint between ground level and where your LB enters the house.
Try and stagger your wires when you tape them up to feed them,leave an extra 1' or so on one to use as a lead and use a pulling sock on that wire.
Tape the hell out of the wires to keep them from coming apart,use good electrical tape to tie them together,dont cheap out here because wires coming apart in a pipe 1/2 way through a pull really ****!
Slop the hell out of the wires with pulling lube as you feed them,because again wires coming apart s-uck!
You might want to feed a good rope through the pipe with a fish tape and use it to tie off to the sock and pull wires with,much easier than pulling with a fish tape.
Again use a good rope for pulling.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Thumb gum is good for sealing pipes,worry about that last though when youre dolling things up.

 

[black4.6gt]

Ahh, thank you! Somewhere along the line we acquired some utilities pull rope ribbon type stuff, I was hoping that would work... and that I have enough.

So when I pull the feeder up through the bottom of the LB, I can bend it enough to push into the house? That's where it is a little foggy for me, it seems stiff as a board, and the LB doesn't seem big enough, or not enough room?

 

[gtae07]

So when I pull the feeder up through the bottom of the LB, I can bend it enough to push into the house? That's where it is a little foggy for me, it seems stiff as a board, and the LB doesn't seem big enough, or not enough room?

I used 2-2-2-4 MHF; getting through the LBs I had to separate the conductors and bend them through one at a time. At both ends I was able to come through the wall just a foot or two below the panel so routing inside was easy.


I didn't bother with a pulling sock, but I staggered the ends (3-4" stagger on the cuts), then laid up a piece of mule tape and wrapped the first 2-3ft in duct tape. Then slathered in pulling lube.

 

[trentonmakes]

Pull it from the LB, feed it in and feed it to the next LB if there is another.
Helps to push at LB to help them bend while someone is pulling/keeping tension.

Really thin tracer wire?, and a vacuum to pull a good pull rope through to attach your wires too. The fish line and vacuume make it real easy.
As said, use good tape and lots of it to secure wire to pull rope. A Chinese trap is really good here.
If the bend at the LB is really fighting you, secure pull rope to a vehicle and pull! Lol
Couple wraps around a pipe or hammer and some leverage should do it though!

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[pattenp]

I am also planning on using 1-1-1-3 MHF...

So.. who makes 1-1-1-3 MHF? I'm not aware of MHF coming in that size. I only know of #2, #2/0 and #4/0. The 1-1-1-3 is most likely SER and cannot be used below ground.

100A breaker will take up to a #2/0.



*

 

[black4.6gt]

I used 2-2-2-4 MHF; getting through the LBs I had to separate the conductors and bend them through one at a time. At both ends I was able to come through the wall just a foot or two below the panel so routing inside was easy.


I didn't bother with a pulling sock, but I staggered the ends (3-4" stagger on the cuts), then laid up a piece of mule tape and wrapped the first 2-3ft in duct tape. Then slathered in pulling lube.

That's what I was thinking too, separate it a little bit at the end. My plan is to have a long sweep up through the concrete and just come straight into the bottom of the panel in the building. Mule tape is what I have, we keep some in our sleds as tow rope!

 

[black4.6gt]

Pull it from the LB, feed it in and feed it to the next LB if there is another.
Helps to push at LB to help them bend while someone is pulling/keeping tension.

Really thin tracer wire?, and a vacuum to pull a good pull rope through to attach your wires too. The fish line and vacuume make it real easy.
As said, use good tape and lots of it to secure wire to pull rope. A Chinese trap is really good here.
If the bend at the LB is really fighting you, secure pull rope to a vehicle and pull! Lol
Couple wraps around a pipe or hammer and some leverage should do it though!

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

That's a really good idea with the vacuum, but this tape is pretty thick at about 1/2" wide maybe?

 

[black4.6gt]

So.. who makes 1-1-1-3 MHF? I'm not aware of MHF coming in that size. I only know of #2, #2/0 and #4/0. The 1-1-1-3 is most likely SER and cannot be used below ground.

100A breaker will take up to a #2/0.



*

Bummer, you're right!! After all the hours of reading last night, I was starting to get mixed up on my wire... sure enough, the 1-1-1-3 is SER, its a southwire product. I noticed "outdoor" and "wet" and ran with it.

 

[trentonmakes]

Wrap it, loop it, basket weave it... Lol



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[theoldwizard1]

I am getting ready to run the wiring for my 100a sub panel in my new building.

If you are willing to drop down to 60A (more than enough for a typical one man shop/garage even with A/C) then you can use 2-2-2-4 MHF and save a lot of $$$. Keep the 100A breaker panel, just change the breaker where you are tapping off from to 60A.

Probably have to use the same size conduit.

 

[black4.6gt]

If you are willing to drop down to 60A (more than enough for a typical one man shop/garage even with A/C) then you can use 2-2-2-4 MHF and save a lot of $$$. Keep the 100A breaker panel, just change the breaker where you are tapping off from to 60A.

Probably have to use the same size conduit.

That doesn't seem like I would have much room for improvement down the road? I like the suggestion for money savings though. I'll definitely have to give it some thought. Off the top of my head I can probably think of 25-30a of use at one time, not to mention plugging in the boat or camper. Kinda like a house though right?? Not going to be using all amperage all the time. Thank you sir!

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[pattenp]

You can over current protect the #2 Al up to 90A. At a load of 70A you'll be at 3% VD at the 160ft. At 90A you'll be just below 4% VD. I wouldn't have an issue of using the #2 Al on a 90A breaker at 160ft. If you want the comfort zone then use 2/0 MHF to get the full 100A.

 

[black4.6gt]

You can over current protect the #2 Al up to 90A. At a load of 70A you'll be at 3% VD at the 160ft. At 90A you'll be just below 4% VD. I wouldn't have an issue of using the #2 Al on a 90A breaker at 160ft. If you want the comfort zone then use 2/0 MHF to get the full 100A.

Alright, that definitely sounds reasonable. After some thought, there really is no reason to stick with the full 100a... The building isn't making me any money...

So, we have 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder that is acceptable to use. What is the preferred breaker at the house? Still use a 100a sub panel for the slots but change the main breaker on that to something lower correct? That would prevent me from having to go to the house if I should for some reason pop it?

Thanks everyone!

 

[theoldwizard1]

So, we have 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder that is acceptable to use. What is the preferred breaker at the house?

Here is your answer

You can over current protect the #2 Al up to 90A.

Still use a 100a sub panel for the slots but change the main breaker on that to something lower correct? That would prevent me from having to go to the house if I should for some reason pop it?

Not all panels have replaceable mains and finding a 90A main is probably going to be difficult. Leave the 100A main in. I'll bet you NEVER have to walk to the house to reset that breaker.

 

[black4.6gt]

So, we have 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder that is acceptable to use. What is the preferred breaker at the house?

Here is your answer



Not all panels have replaceable mains and finding a 90A main is probably going to be difficult. Leave the 100A main in. I'll bet you NEVER have to walk to the house to reset that breaker.

Copy that, I read the 90a protection, but my pea brain read it as an absolute max, not the norm.

 

[black4.6gt]

Southwire 2-2-2-4 AL USE MHF Service Entry Electrical Cable (Didn't want to link to HD)

Is this the stuff? I found it at my local electrical supply online.

*Edit*
Found individual conductors at Platt again...
--2 AWG, USE-2/RHH/RHW-2, Compact Stranded Aluminum, Black. AA-8030 AL Series XLPE 600V Its 0.35/ft x 3 right? then add...
--4 AWG, USE-2/RHH/RHW-2, Compact Stranded Aluminum, Green. AA-8030 AL Series XLPE 600V at 0.25/ft.

 

[Aceman]

Yes. Either one.

 

[black4.6gt]

Yes to the individual strands as well?

Thank you!!!

 

[pattenp]

90A goes in house, 100A stays in sub-panel and serves just as a disconnect.

 

[black4.6gt]

Right, I think that last quote got my name in it in the wrong spot... I understood what you meant.

 

[pattenp]

Yes to the individual strands as well?

Thank you!!!

Yes, the individual wires are fine. May end up being cheaper than MHF because you are making up the needed conductors vs. buying the ready assembled MHF cable.

 

[black4.6gt]

Yes, the individual wires are fine. May end up being cheaper than MHF because you are making up the needed conductors vs. buying the ready assembled MHF cable.

Perfect, because now after all this discussion about MHF, I finally found these conductors. I found that now I can go to the #1 size and still be less than the ready made. So, 1/1/1/2 now, as I didn't see a #3 available. That will be good for the full 100a right?

 

[toplessHO]

the sealer is called duct seal
its a clay like substance that never hardens

 

[black4.6gt]

the sealer is called duct seal
its a clay like substance that never hardens

Ahh, perfect. Not sure if its necessary, but seems worthwhile.

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[wyliesdiesels]

Perfect, because now after all this discussion about MHF, I finally found these conductors. I found that now I can go to the #1 size and still be less than the ready made. So, 1/1/1/2 now, as I didn't see a #3 available. That will be good for the full 100a right?

Yes #1 AL is good for 100a. And at full load your VD is about 8v or 3.4%...

 

[black4.6gt]

Well, finally made some progress. I rented a little mini ex and got to work. Dug 160' of trench, laid my conduit and pulled some wire. Talk about work!! All by hand with the help of the wife. I went with the #1 AL wire, local electrical outfit worked on the price and gave me some colored tape to mark the conductors. Now I just need some Sch 80 conduit and I should be able to get power to my sub panel.