feeder sizing

[mike93lx]

Picking wire out for a buddy's barn and wanted to ask about neutral and ground sizing

setup is:
-2" conduit, approx 125' end to end.
-Breaker in house will be somewhere between 60a and 90a, depending on what is available locally.
-Wire will be AL XHHW-2

1st Question - I can't relabel a black conductor as ground, correct?

2nd Question - If the answer above is that I can't relabel it, the cheapest option appears to be a 500' spool of #2 for both hots and the neutral (identifying the neutral with white tape) and a ~150' length of green #6 for ground

The barn will also get two ground rods and the neutral bar will be unbonded from the subpanel.

any issues/recommendations? thanks!

 

[exranger06]

If the wire is 4 gauge or larger, you can use a black wire and re-identify it. Anything smaller than that needs to be green or bare. You can buy #6 Al wire with green insulation for 20 cents a foot in whatever length you want: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/6-awg-xhhw-2-aluminum-building-wire.html

 

[mike93lx]

If the wire is 4 gauge or larger, you can use a black wire and re-identify it. Anything smaller than that needs to be green or bare. You can buy #6 Al wire with green insulation for 20 cents a foot in whatever length you want: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/6-awg-xhhw-2-aluminum-building-wire.html

i didn't think a ground conductor could be reidentified. Is that not correct?

Yes, I'm looking at the same site.

 

[pattenp]

An equipment ground can be black with the ends marked green as long as the wire is #4 or larger.

 

[u2slow]

I'd probably go to 100-125A if your main panel will support it, since you're buying wire and already have a good size conduit.

I've got #2 wire because it was readily available 2nd-hand. Using a 60A breaker because the 90A costs about triple.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The ground wire can be stripped bare of it's insulation for it's entire exposed (in boxes, panels, etc) as well

 

[mike93lx]

I'd probably go to 100-125A if your main panel will support it, since you're buying wire and already have a good size conduit.

I've got #2 wire because it was readily available 2nd-hand. Using a 60A breaker because the 90A costs about triple.

Main is only 100a. And there is no need for that much power in the barn

 

[mike93lx]

An equipment ground can be black with the ends marked green as long as the wire is #4 or larger.

Thanks. I think we will probably run #6 as I don't think the run will be under 125',so 500' won't cover all four conductors. I can always use the leftover for my workshop, which I am hopefully building next year

 

[mike93lx]

The ground wire can be stripped bare of it's insulation for it's entire exposed (in boxes, panels, etc) as well

Thanks

 

[Aceman]

Is mobile home feeder cable available where you are?

https://www.google.com/search?q=mob...UWvJ4KHXgTAOUQ_AUoAnoECA0QBA&biw=1600&bih=764

 

[mike93lx]

Is mobile home feeder cable available where you are?

https://www.google.com/search?q=mob...UWvJ4KHXgTAOUQ_AUoAnoECA0QBA&biw=1600&bih=764

Not readily, plus xhhw is effectively the same price and easier to pull. We already have conduit end to end, so direct burial doesn't add any value

 

[walrus]

The supply house I use will put whatever sizes you want on a reel, whatever colors etc

 

[mike93lx]

The supply house I use will put whatever sizes you want on a reel, whatever colors etc

I have found wire pricing to be very good at HD and Lowe's. In stock selection isnt great, but they can get a spool in a few days.

With that said, we should check as it would be more convenient to have the conductors to have the conductors on separate spools instead of having to run lengths off ourselves from a 500 footer

 

[Aceman]

Not readily, plus xhhw is effectively the same price and easier to pull. We already have conduit end to end, so direct burial doesn't add any value

I'm not suggesting direct burial.

At 125' in 2" conduit, mobile home feeder, xhhw, or what have you should all go down the pipe similarly if it's ran correctly. Furthermore, mobile home feeder comes on the same spool and is already colored correctly.

There is something to be gained by not dealing with doing cuts off a master reel yourself and then having to deal individual cuts/spools.

All this is what adds value.

In any case, if mhf was not available, we'd use xhhw or use/rhh/rhw.

If there was a fair amount of 240v load, we usually drop the neutral one/two sizes.

The ground would get sized to the breaker ahead of it and increases proportionately if the hots were increased in size over what is required to match the breaker size.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm not suggesting direct burial.

At 125' in 2" conduit, mobile home feeder, xhhw, or what have you should all go down the pipe similarly if it's ran correctly. Furthermore, mobile home feeder comes on the same spool and is already colored correctly.

There is something to be gained by not dealing with doing cuts off a master reel yourself and then having to deal individual cuts/spools.

All this is what adds value.

In any case, if mhf was not available, we'd use xhhw or use/rhh/rhw.

If there was a fair amount of 240v load, we usually drop the neutral one/two sizes.

The ground would get sized to the breaker ahead of it and increases proportionately if the hots were increased in size over what is required to match the breaker size.

Makes sense. I'm not worried about saving a little time on this, but a single bundle of wire would be convenient. I'll look again.

Is #6 ground ok when using #2 for a 60a feeder?

 

[jeepxj]

don't forget to put in a 1" conduit for ethernet/fiber.

 

[Innovate1]

Makes sense. I'm not worried about saving a little time on this, but a single bundle of wire would be convenient. I'll look again.

Is #6 ground ok when using #2 for a 60a feeder?

My understanding is that normal for 60A would be #4 AL and you are 2 sizes larger. So the ground, normally #8 AL min for 60A, needs to also be increased 2 sizes to #6. That sounds right to me.

 

[mike93lx]

don't forget to put in a 1" conduit for ethernet/fiber.

LOL. This is a barn for storing a tractor and maybe a couple goats. At no point, ever will fiber or Ethernet be needed.

Plus the conduit is already 4' below grade

 

[jeepxj]

LOL. This is a barn for storing a tractor and maybe a couple goats. At no point, ever will fiber or Ethernet be needed.

Plus the conduit is already 4' below grade

never say never. what if the goats need to get online?

 

[mike93lx]

never say never. what if the goats need to get online?

That's a good point. Never know when goats will require broadband.

I'll tell him to dig the yard up again

 

[jeepxj]

he's running goat 7.6.1? gona need the big update to goat 8.0.0 in order to get that cold weather hay processing in order

 

[walrus]

I have found wire pricing to be very good at HD and Lowe's. In stock selection isnt great, but they can get a spool in a few days.

With that said, we should check as it would be more convenient to have the conductors to have the conductors on separate spools instead of having to run lengths off ourselves from a 500 footer

The supply will also put 50 ft on or 300 ft on, what ever you want.