Feeding the new shop

[383 240z]

I'm at the point where I need to feed the new shop. Yes, I think I need to feed with 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. I'm feeding a 100 amp panel. The path will be 115', so I am thinking of using 125' for calculations. 60' of the run will need to be buried.

I'll be renting a trencher to bury this at a depth of 4'. I'm thinking 2" conduit will work.

Is this conduit what I want?

Cantex 2 in. x 10 ft. Sch. 40 PVC Conduit A52CA12H - The Home Depot

This 2 in. x 10 ft. Sch. 40 PVC protects and routes electrical cables. for peace of mind, it is UL Listed to ensure safety. It is also ETL Listed.

www.homedepot.com

Are either of these wires what I need to buy?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...ded-AL-Quad-****-URD-Cable-55417399/205001803

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-2-2-2-4-Gray-Stranded-AL-SER-Cable-13102915/202316610

Any other wires that are more correct or better options?

I'm hoping to make the purchase this pay and maybe cutting the trench this weekend.

I'll update my build thread when I can take some more photos and post them up. Thanks everyone

Keith

 

[wyliesdiesels]

4' is a bit deep

#2 AL is only good for 90a but should be fine for your application

make sure to unbond the neutral in the subpanel and you will need 2 ground rods.

that wire, if not dual rated, is not code permissible inside structures. that URD doesnt appear to be dual rated RHH/RHW... I would go with #2 AL MHF- mobile home feeder instead. it will need to be in conduit anywhere it is indoors.

 

[383 240z]

There will be 2” conduit all the way to the panel. #2 MHF? I thought that couldn’t be buried.

Is #2 AL too thin? Should I be looking at copper? What size?

If MHF is good, I’m fine with it. My shop is under 1000 sq. ft. so no inspections.

My big power draws will be a TIG, 220v MIG, Mill, Lathe, and compressor.

Natural gas for heat and LED’s for lighting.

 

[dcg9381]

There will be 2” conduit all the way to the panel. #2 MHF? I thought that couldn’t be buried.

I think you mean can't be "direct buried".
It's a conduit OK service feeder rated for "wet locations" (IE in conduit)

2-2-2-4 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable

2-2-2-4 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable. Sold by the foot.

www.wireandcableyourway.com

Is #2 AL too thin? Should I be looking at copper? What size?

It'll do 90A, not 100A. Sure, you can go to copper, but it's going to get substantially more expensive for 10% more power.

If MHF is good, I’m fine with it. My shop is under 1000 sq. ft. so no inspections.
My big power draws will be a TIG, 220v MIG, Mill, Lathe, and compressor.
Natural gas for heat and LED’s for lighting.

You'll be fine with 90A, unless you've got 10 arms and are capable of powering all that up at once.

 

[sparky 1971]

There will be 2” conduit all the way to the panel. #2 MHF couldn't be buried.
Is #2 AL too thin? Should I be looking at copper? What size?
If MHF is good, I’m fine with it. My shop is under 1000 sq. ft. so no inspections.
UMy big power draws will be a TIG, 220v MIG, Mill, Lathe, and compressor.
Natural gas for heat and LED’s for lighting.

If using conduit all the way you could use THWN or XHHW and save a few bucks. MHF can be direct buried without conduit. It's SER that can't. #2 AL is good for up to 90 amps. You could use #3 copper, but you're going to more than double the cost.

 

[sparky 1971]

I think you mean can't be "direct buried".
It's a conduit OK service feeder rated for "wet locations"

MHF can be direct buried. The only place it needs conduit is where it would otherwise be exposed.

 

[pattenp]

MHF is rated for direct bury and only needs to be in conduit where above ground. If doing conduit from panel to panel you can also use XHHW-2 which is not as stiff and heavy as MHF, but you'll need to buy individual conductors in the needed sizes.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There will be 2” conduit all the way to the panel. #2 MHF? I thought that couldn’t be buried.

Is #2 AL too thin? Should I be looking at copper? What size?

If MHF is good, I’m fine with it. My shop is under 1000 sq. ft. so no inspections.

My big power draws will be a TIG, 220v MIG, Mill, Lathe, and compressor.

Natural gas for heat and LED’s for lighting.

MFD can be buried in conduit or direct buried. I recommend conduit however...

 

[383 240z]

MFD can be buried in conduit or direct buried. I recommend conduit however...

This is NOT the place to cheap out! At $25 a stick I’ll splurge. Is Sch 40 good or is 80 needed?

 

[Innovate1]

This is NOT the place to cheap out! At $25 a stick I’ll splurge. Is Sch 40 good or is 80 needed?

 

[Innovate1]

Sch 40 is fine. Some places want Sch80 for outside risers for more protection from people running into it but most places consider 40 fine. If you really want 100A you could step up to #1 AL - easy to do with XHHW. Wireandcableyourway.com is where I got mine and lots of others here have used them. They can supply it on 4 spools so it's easy to pull them all together. But I doubt you will every use 100A so #2 should be fine. You might have special order the 90A breaker to feed it or just use an 80 - probably still more than you will ever use. Probably don't need 2" conduit either. I pulled 2 strands of #1, 1 of #2, and I think #4 for ground in 1.5" and had no trouble. I used long bends (bent my own with steam for 24" radius) at the ends and only had two - don't know how many bends you will have.

 

[383 240z]

Sch 40 is fine. Some places want Sch80 for outside risers for more protection from people running into it but most places consider 40 fine. If you really want 100A you could step up to #1 AL - easy to do with XHHW. Wireandcableyourway.com is where I got mine and lots of others here have used them. They can supply it on 4 spools so it's easy to pull them all together. But I doubt you will every use 100A so #2 should be fine. You might have special order the 90A breaker to feed it or just use an 80 - probably still more than you will ever use. Probably don't need 2" conduit either. I pulled 2 strands of #1, 1 or #2, and I think #4 for ground in 1.5" and had no trouble. I used long bends (bent my own with steam for 24" radius) at the ends and only had two - don't know how many bends you will have.

It’s about 3’ from the bottom of the panel to the long 90° then a straight run for 65’ to the foundation of the house. Then along joists to the main panel on the other side of the house.

 

[383 240z]

Sch 40 is fine. Some places want Sch80 for outside risers for more protection from people running into it but most places consider 40 fine. If you really want 100A you could step up to #1 AL - easy to do with XHHW. Wireandcableyourway.com is where I got mine and lots of others here have used them. They can supply it on 4 spools so it's easy to pull them all together. But I doubt you will every use 100A so #2 should be fine. You might have special order the 90A breaker to feed it or just use an 80 - probably still more than you will ever use. Probably don't need 2" conduit either. I pulled 2 strands of #1, 1 of #2, and I think #4 for ground in 1.5" and had no trouble. I used long bends (bent my own with steam for 24" radius) at the ends and only had two - don't know how many bends you will have.

Can I get XHHW at one of the big box stores? Or is that from an electric supplier only? What I think of when I here Mobile Home Feed is the grey insulated oval shaped wire. Like what is running from the masthead (I think the right name) down to the meter socket on my home. Or am I very wrong?

 

[exranger06]

The gray oval-shaped wire you're describing is SER cable, not MHF. You're correct that SER cable cannot go underground. MHF looks like 4 individual wires stuck together with no outer sheathing, and it can go underground.

 

[Innovate1]

If you go with MHF you may want to go with the larger conduit. MHF is twisted to keep the strands together and is harder to pull. I don't have experience with it so can't say how much harder. I think XHHW should be available from local electrical supplies but not the big box stores. wireandcableyourway.com is probably your best source for it.

 

[dcg9381]

If you go with MHF you may want to go with the larger conduit. MHF is twisted to keep the strands together and is harder to pull. I don't have experience with it so can't say how much harder. I think XHHW should be available from local electrical supplies but not the big box stores. wireandcableyourway.com is probably your best source for it.

It'll go through 2" pretty easy. 115', just just push it and pull it at the same time. It's just under 1" OD, so 2" conduit is adequate.

 

[Innovate1]

It'll go through 2" pretty easy. 115', just just push it and pull it at the same time. It's just under 1" OD, so 2" conduit is adequate.

2" is plenty big. I had suggested 1.5" for XHHW. My statement about MAYBE needing to go to THE larger size for MHF was referring to the 2". I did a search and found lots of posts that 1.25 is minimum and 1.5 is no problem, especially with long sweeps and only two 90s. The price difference in conduit is significant.

 

[383 240z]

I checked what the local electrical quoted. It is the MHF. $2.15 a linear foot. Well within my budget.

I’ll measure again tomorrow, add some extra and place my order. Thank you all!!

 

[383 240z]

Well thanks guys!! I picked up 125’ of 2,2,2,4 quadraplex direct burial cable today. $2.15 per ft. I’m off on Monday. I’m hoping to get the conduit and trencher rented!

 

[pattenp]

That's URD cable and is not allowed by the NEC to enter the structure. Are you planning to terminate this outside and switch to an approved wire for interior use? Verify the insulation rating that it's just not USE-2 only. See post #2.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well thanks guys!! I picked up 125’ of 2,2,2,4 quadraplex direct burial cable today. $2.15 per ft. I’m off on Monday. I’m hoping to get the conduit and trencher rented!

Do you have the link to the product where you bought it? That does not look like code permissible wire for indoors.

That looks like three phase service entrance wire

 

[383 240z]

That’s a photo of the receipt. Please tell me they gave me the right stuff. I told them what I was doing. They said this is what I needed.

 

[Norcal]

That’s a photo of the receipt. Please tell me they gave me the right stuff. I told them what I was doing. They said this is what I needed.

The receipt says it's URD.

 

[pattenp]

Southwire "****" is URD and is not approved for inside installation. It must be terminated outside of the structure. Sorry, this is a very common mistake when purchasing wire for this purpose when trying to run one continuous run of wire panel to panel to a separate structure.
Use either MHF or XHHW or THWN.

 

[383 240z]

Southwire "****" is URD and is not approved for inside installation. It must be terminated outside of the structure. Sorry, this is a very common mistake when purchasing wire for this purpose when trying to run one continuous run of wire panel to panel to a separate structure.
Use either MHF or XHHW or THWN.

Thank you. I asked for their recommendation and that is what they provided. I asked for MHF and I might have said it wrong. I’ll se what they can do to help make this right!

 

[pattenp]

Based on your first post it appears you'll have quite a few feet of run inside to both panels. The issue with USE rated only is that wire insulation is not fire resistant rated so that's why the NEC doesn't approve it to be used inside. I've seen it get by on inspection when the feed goes directly through the wall right into the back of the panel having only the wire length inside the panel.