Feeler gauges with finer granularity?

[pontoon]

Hi all,

Checking my valves, I’m trying to decide which shims to swap. The feeler gauges I have go in increments of .001”. So I have a .010”, .011”, .012” etc. In metric that’s .254, .279, .305.

Current issues with my feelers: when I mic them, some are close, some are off by more than I consider acceptable.

Mostly I want more sizes. I want .250mm, .260mm, .270mm, .280mm, .290mm, .300mm, etc.

Anyone know of feelers with more sizes and better tolerances? Mostly I care about metric. I can convert if needed.

 

[PCustoms]

Hi all,

Checking my valves, I’m trying to decide which shims to swap. The feeler gauges I have go in increments of .01”. So I have a .010”, .011”, .012” etc. In metric that’s .254, .279, .305.

You sure about that?

 

[pontoon]

You sure about that?

Whoops .001”

 

[RoninB4]

Hi all,

Current issues with my feelers: when I mic them, some are close, some are off by more than I consider acceptable.

-What error do you consider "acceptable/unacceptable"? Never seen a feeler gauge off by more than .0001-.0002 and for setting valves that error is well within the stated range in factory manuals. When measuring .0001's the temperature of the object, mic, and room temperature make a difference. Even just holding either in your hand changes the temperature enough to see a difference. Did you close the mic on some paper before checking for zero? Burrs on the edges of the feeler gauge leaves or oxidation? I've always used Precision brand feeler gauge in the tool room.

 

[matt_i]

Recommending Starrett 66MA

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/66MA

 

[PCustoms]

Recommending Starrett 66MA

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/66MA

Probably world class feelers right there.

I don't think the OP request for 0.01mm increments exists.

 

[Gotcha640]

Do you have a few sizes you need more exact measurements (I assume you don't need all 66 leaves)? McMaster sells shim stock by the sheet, plastic 0075 tolerance is 0004.

Painted aluminum doesn't list a tolerance, which I assume means it's tight enough environmental factors will be greater than the variance. Also assume you wouldn't be able to use it as feeler with the paint.

What kind of engine are you working on? I'm really only familiar with old VWs, where I'm happy with anything between 006 and 010.

 

[svtride]

Do you have a few sizes you need more exact measurements (I assume you don't need all 66 leaves)? McMaster sells shim stock by the sheet

I went this route and only ordered the shim stock strips I needed for a particular vehicle in 0.001" increments. Needed only 3 sizes each for Intake and exhaust.
What I did note after getting shim stock, was die break (burr) on the ends of shim. I subsequently took a touch up stone to knock the burr off each end.

 

[pontoon]

If I recall correctly mine was off by about .0003. I only measured a couple shims. One was closer. Mine is an OEMTOOLS set.

I settled on a Mitutoyo set which goes in .01mm increments on the small shims and then .05mm. I’ll have to combine shims to test the higher values with .01mm granularity. A bit more cumbersome but worth it to me.

Thanks all.

 

[21bubba]

If I recall correctly mine was off by about .0003. I only measured a couple shims. One was closer. Mine is an OEMTOOLS set.

I settled on a Mitutoyo set which goes in .01mm increments on the small shims and then .05mm. I’ll have to combine shims to test the higher values with .01mm granularity. A bit more cumbersome but worth it to me.

Thanks all.

I got to know what you're using this on?

 

[larry_g]

I got to know what you're using this on?

And what is the tolerance spec of the valve your setting? If .0003" is something to worry about then your in some exotic territory working with engineers that don't know what they are doing.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[PCustoms]

And what is the tolerance spec of the valve your setting? If .0003" is something to worry about then your in some exotic territory working with engineers that don't know what they are doing.

lg
no neat sig line

LOL.

OP odds are whatever you used to get that value "off" is not repeatable at the given conditions. This is getting into somewhat specialized metrology requirements, environmental controls and gauge R&R territory. I have no doubts your instrument displayed that, but it's likely not true....

Measuring parts that go in/out spec from the thermal expansion expansion from holding them in your hand is a blast!

 

[pontoon]

LOL.

OP odds are whatever you used to get that value "off" is not repeatable at the given conditions. This is getting into somewhat specialized metrology requirements, environmental controls and gauge R&R territory. I have no doubts your instrument displayed that, but it's likely not true....

Measuring parts that go in/out spec from the thermal expansion expansion from holding them in your hand is a blast!

Yeah, you’re right. There’s no way my made in China $7 feeler gauges are off at all. In fact my Mitutoyo micrometer was probably having a bad day.

 

[pontoon]

And what is the tolerance spec of the valve your setting? If .0003" is something to worry about then your in some exotic territory working with engineers that don't know what they are doing.

lg
no neat sig line

Tolerance of my valves is a range of 0.1mm from e.g. .230 to .330. Knowing which 10% of that range I’m in would be awesome. As is I only have 3-4 feelers in that range. Good enough for people who just want it in range. I’m just an odd duck who wants to get the valves just where I want them, not “somewhere within spec”.

Valve adjustment on this vehicle is a major pain so it’s easier for me if I know more precisely where the valve is at.

 

[Robby321]

Something like that I simple do a Go-No Go...Thou off means zip

 

[PCustoms]

Yeah, you’re right. There’s no way my made in China $7 feeler gauges are off at all. In fact my Mitutoyo micrometer was probably having a bad day.

I think you've missed the point.

Your china feelers may be off, but your mitutoyo mics aren't accurately and repeatedly measuring down into the micron range in non-lab conditions.

 

[designer485]

I got to know what you're using this on?

Sounds like it could be the S54 in the E46 M3?

 

[pontoon]

I think you've missed the point.

Your china feelers may be off, but your mitutoyo mics aren't accurately and repeatedly measuring down into the micron range in non-lab conditions.

My mic is very accurate and I’ve used it in non-lab conditions against a gage block to prove it. I get repeatable measurements with it too... not sure what you’re smoking. The most my measurements are varying when I repeat my measurements in the garage is .001-.004mm depending on where I measure on the middle of the shim and how tight I turn it down.

I’m getting very consistent results every time I’ve ever used that mic on any project. I definitely am missing your point. The feelers are significantly worse than my mic. I’m happy with the mic and unhappy with the feelers. The feelers are off by more than an order of magnitude than my mic. The Mitutoyo feelers I ordered promise to be an order of magnitude better than my current feelers and they also provide better resolution.

 

[pontoon]

Sounds like it could be the S54 in the E46 M3?

It’s a 5vzfe. The shims are very annoying to get out to measure and adjust. It’s not like a Honda where you can just undo a locknut, turn a screw, and feel again. Measuring and then swapping two shims is a pita.

 

[21bubba]

It’s a 5vzfe. The shims are very annoying to get out to measure and adjust. It’s not like a Honda where you can just undo a locknut, turn a screw, and feel again. Measuring and then swapping two shims is a pita.

And you think a 'thou or 2 is gonna make any difference? The drag on the feeler is more than that.

 

[xjfish]

I don't blame pontoon for wanting some quality feelers.

 

[johninct]

And you think a 'thou or 2 is gonna make any difference? The drag on the feeler is more than that.

This. Also, maybe your finger pressure on the mike is too tight.

 

[justanengineer]

Unless you’re using mics multiple times weekly and have years of experience, you’re not splitting a thou accurately. You’re also not likely to have the supermic needed to measure tenths accurately.

Feeler gages are a quick/rough measurement btw. If you’re really concerned with accuracy then use an indicator to measure lift.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pontoon]

I can definitely mic accurately within +- .001mm. I just took 3 measurements of my gage block and got 2.541mm, 2.540mm, and 2.540mm. The correct measurement is .1 inch +- 8 micro inches or 2.540mm.

I just used my mic on a few shims and the measurements aren’t as bad as I recall seeing. They’re within .005 from what I’m seeing. Not a major issue as I thought. I would still enjoy better resolution than jumping about .0254 per shim. Maybe I have one bad shim in there I haven’t found again. I’m too lazy to check. Some guys do occasionally find their shims were mixed up at the factory or off so it does happen.

 

[bob15]

Why not just buy metric feeler gauges?

 

[laser3kw]

after doing some searches, I see what your saying. The manufactures of flat thickness gages usually increment in.001" imperial or, when in the range of .25 metric, increment in steps of .05mm (.0019"). So, if you want resolution, using the imperial gages incrementing .001" is your best bet.
metric >> imperial
0.2500 = 0.0098
0.2600 = 0.0102
0.2700 = 0.0106
0.2800 = 0.0110
0.2900 = 0.0114
0.3000 = 0.0118
0.3100 = 0.0122
0.3200 = 0.0126
0.3300 = 0.0130