Fence issue(longwinded)

[aalleexx]

We had a retainingwall (Keystone) built on one side of our yard, Almost 6' high.
Asked neighbor before hand as it replaced an old leaning chain-link fence. No objections and looks way better than previous. Want a 6' privacy fence along top of wall but because of miss communication with wall builder, unable to set posts before wall was built. I'm thinking an off set bracket to extend fence as close to top of wall as possible (approx 12" from base of wall to top). Only way to place fence now seems to be to put posts on his side of property against bottom of wall. Hate to do even ask him for obvious reasons. Any ideas?

 

[gravelydude]

Alex,

I think that a picture would help immensely here. Also, it wouldn't hurt to explain the situation to your neighbor, and see what they say. If I was your neighbor, I would be cooperative in the effort, as fences are something that both sides have to live with.

Jack

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Pictures would definitely help. I'm sitting here trying to imagine a retaining chain link fence.
One thing I will say is to be sure where the property line is. Seems like fences are usually built a few feet from them.

 

[dfiler2]

Really need some pics, it sounds like you want to put up a privacy fence at the bottom of a 6' retaining wall that would then hide the wall. You say you want to build it on the top of the wall, what is preventing you from putting the posts just behind the blocks at the top of the wall?

 

[jkwilson]

A 6ft fence would be a heck of a wind load on any kind of offset bracket.

How high is the retaining wall, and what is behind it on the high side? Rock fill? Dirt? Drainage?

 

[aalleexx]

6' cedar fence with top cap. Wall is just over 4.5' high at highest point. The wall replaced a leaning old chain link fence. French drain at bottom, landscape paper, gravel then dirt. Sod on top. Steel poles for posts on fence. Fence to start near top of wall. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[Playwme]

Long star pickets hammered in right behind the wall? Anything coming up from the low side will look horrible against that nice wall.

 

[aalleexx]

There is about a foot of gravel from edge of wall under sod. Doessn't seem like it would be stable to put poles in the gravel. The fence wouldn't start till near the top of the wall so all that would be exposed would be the steel poles going up.

 

[shoot summ]

Based on the pics, I would object to the poles on his side, would look terrible.

To me the only solutions are:

1) Tear out parts of the wall and put in some sort of column that would anchor the wall, and anchor the fence post.

2) Put the posts on your side.

3) Build some elaborate steel stepped bracket/post that would come up the wall and function as a fence post. It's still unlikely it will have any type of wind resistance.

This is where pre-planning is so key to a successful project...

 

[Cyberbear]

That's a very nice looking retaining wall judging from the pictures. I'm hoping that you built the retaining wall within your property lines, and can prove it, because most states consider a fence of any type constructed directly on the property line as a "common" wall belonging to both property owners, no matter who paid for it.
Good fences make good neighbors and you never know who your next neighbor will be in the future when the old one moves out.

 

[aalleexx]

On our side, but asked him anyway before building. I needdiscuss the fence with him and hope he is as cool with it as the wall. Here's what it looked like before.

 

[KEH]

With the wall no thicker than it is, I wouldn't worry about the privacy fence being not on TOP of the wall. I suggest using hand post hole diggers to dig holes through the gravel and dirt on the inside of the wall, then put your metal posts in concrete in the holes.

KEH

 

[Falcon67]

. Only way to place fence now seems to be to put posts on his side of property against bottom of wall. Hate to do even ask him for obvious reasons. Any ideas?

I can't help much, but if I was your neighbor you'd get a "No". That would look like **** and I'd not want any of your fence on my side. UNLESS - they sit inside the property line on your side, then not much I could do about it, really. Then I'd probably get you to shell out for some bushes since you'd be tromping all over the dirt on my side. Bring me...a Shrubbery! So I think you're stuck with setting posts just behind the retaining wall and adding your privacy on the outside of the poles, resting on top of the block.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Bring me...a Shrubbery! :lol

What about some tall shrubs on the topside of your wall, on your property, for privacy?
Would that work?

It would look nice, and solve the problem of not having to ask your neighbor about putting the fence posts up in his yard.

Jim

 

[aalleexx]

Really wanting the fence. House a couple of streets over have one we really liked, want to copy. Would some of those cardboard tubes for concrete holes be a solution?

 

[BFBOB]

Umm ... maybe I've been reading too much Grisham, but ... 6' wall on small city lot with no fence (think handrail) at top just SCREAMS lawsuit.
And shrubbery? Nee, nee!
I can just hear the plaintiff's counsel: "Do you mean to tell us, Mr. Alex, that you deliberately installed plantings that would conceal the very existance of that DEADLY six-foot dropoff??

Seems to me, drill 12" hole 6' deep about a foot away from the top of the wall, concrete in 12' fence posts, there you go. Not too tough with mechanized drilling. Same folks who built the wall should be equipped for that, or at least be able to recommend someone and offer advice- build/fill details to minimize the chance of damage.

 

[BFBOB]

. Would some of those cardboard tubes for concrete holes be a solution?

Pix?
Tubes or not is a question for the concrete experts, which I ain't. From what I know, the purpose of the tubes is to prevent the soil from getting a good grip on the concrete pier to prevent "frost heaves". As the soil freezes in the winter, it expands due to the expansion of the water in it as it becomes ice. If the frozen part of thge soil is gripping the concrete, it will "expand" it upward - the only direction it can go. When it contracts again in the thaw, there will be only gravity trying to make the pier go back down - much weaker than the force of freezing (think frozen pipes). BUT, these "piers" must resist radial loads, not just primarily axial loads like building piers. I would want to have tubes only as far down as the frost line, then bare holes to get the maximum radial support for the piers. Here's where it gets complicated. It's easy enough to look up the average frost line for your area, but where you're putting those piers, it isn't flat. The cold could penetrate through the wall and freeze soil that's far below the theoretical frost line. That's a question for an engineer with better than average smarts. This situation has to have come up and been addressed before, but it's a notch or two shy of routine.

As others have said, I wouldn't consider putting the fence posts at the bottom of the wall. It would look awful.

Now, if you wanted to build pilasters of matching stone for the posts to bolt to at the top, hey, go for it! It would look downright medieval (think flying buttress).

 

[aalleexx]

Thanks everybody for the suggestions. I guess I'll just have to get with the fence builder when he gets here to figure something out. Any suggestions still welcome and appreciated.

 

[jimindm]

I am not sure but if you live in an area where any permits are needed, I would highly doubt that they would allow you to build a six foot retaining wall with a six foot privacy fence on top of it.

I would say that if I was your neighbor I would not be OK with that at all. I would guess any others close would feel the same way.

There are very few neighborhoods that your twelve foot tall idea would work.

Second thought maybe you do live in an area that you could only build a six foot fence, and that would not meet your needs. So you raised you yard six feet, expecting to build on top of it.

To answer your question though, I would think if you are allowed the fence, the upright would have to be a long ways into the ground, the closer you are to the wall. Any way you can come off the wall say two feet. That would give you the ability to build it and maintain it with out a ladder. Two feet would give you a chance to mow there also.

 

[carhunter]

6' cedar fence with top cap. Wall is just over 4.5' high at highest point. The wall replaced a leaning old chain link fence. French drain at bottom, landscape paper, gravel then dirt. Sod on top. Steel poles for posts on fence. Fence to start near top of wall. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Some sort of poured cap along the top row of blocks would look good, and could be designed strong enough to act as an anchor for fence posts.

Probably not very cheap or easy though.

 

[Kaizen]

digging and putting posts on your side of the wall should not be a problem. however I urge you to consider the great wall of china that you are building. it would be like having a 2 story building and so close to his house it will be overbearing. might want to research spite fence for your area as well. that will certainly qualify. whether you mean it or not.
I agree bushes unless you want to run around naked or something.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Umm ... maybe I've been reading too much Grisham, but ... 6' wall on small city lot with no fence (think handrail) at top just SCREAMS lawsuit.
And shrubbery? Nee, nee!
I can just hear the plaintiff's counsel: "Do you mean to tell us, Mr. Alex, that you deliberately installed plantings that would conceal the very existance of that DEADLY six-foot dropoff??

This is actually a great point!

Are there any codes in your town what would require any type of railing or fence or other type of setup that would stop people from falling down that wall? Kind of like how you have to put a railing up for steps and what-not?

Jim

 

[Alan Douglas]

You indicated the wall was actually 4.5 ft high, not 6 ft, and some parts were lower, and I think I can see that from the photos.

If I were standing in your neighbor's yard, I could easily see over a 4.5 ft wall, so I wouldn't be feeling hemmed in. But add another 6 feet, or any height of solid wall at all, and this starts looking like a prison yard, with my neighbor looking down on me. Not particularly appealing. The most I would like to see is an open fence (and which might be a good idea, or even required for safety reasons, as already mentioned).

 

[KDXSR5]

Here are some pics for reference/ideas.

A basic look of what your neighbors will see every day with some of the ideas floating around:

What I think would look cool on top of your retaining wall using matching blocks to build the pilasters:

The open pickets break up the wall effect, and the pilasters make it look like a castle as another poster mentioned. Who doesn't want their own castle!? You could eventually put bushes on your side of the open pickets as well to help conceal your yard more.

If I was your neighbor, I would rather look at the pilasters/pickets rather than the solid fence if I had a choice. It sounds like either way you are going to build a massive structure for them to look at, so try to make it somewhat visually appealing. Unless you hate your neighbors, then full steam ahead on the prison wall!

You can build the pilasters to hold cross rails to attach the fence to. This avoids having to drill holes in the ground to set posts, or worry about frost and such. Just a couple more ideas/thoughts for you.

 

[Kevin54]

Alex....first off a location in your profile helps to answer questions. Do you have frost? Are you in California in total sunny weather, or are you in Ohio where we have all four seasons in a weeks time?

As far as your question......drill down on the inside of your top blocks, sink some post in, and build a fence. If you don't have 60 mph sustained winds, you should be fine