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Festool Domino- when does the patent expire!

tarbellb

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Just like the Fein multi-tool or Festool plunge track saw I can't wait for the patent on the Festool Domino to expire so we can get some healthy competition!

Who's got info on when this might happen and any mfg working on competition?

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Vinny

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2026, I believe. This comes up occasionally here.
Knock offs might not be as good. I remember when that dowel plunge thing (company starts with a L) patent expired and none of the knockoffs were worth it.
 
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purplezr2

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2026, I believe. This comes up occasionally here.
Knock offs might not be as good. I remember when that dowel plunge thing (company starts with a L) patent expired and none of the knockoffs were worth it.
Are you referring to the Mafell Duo Doweleer?

I believe there is a Triton and Grizzly knock-off and a few other imports.
 

Max

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I gave up waiting and I bought the domino awhile back. I’m starting my first big project with it (making a dozen cabinet doors) so hopefully it’ll work well for me. I used to make mortises on my router table - it worked well, but it was slow and tedious.
 

PCustoms

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Man, I've made it this long without even a biscuit jointer.

I don't believe the hype on the Domino...
 

neophyte

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2026, I believe. This comes up occasionally here.
Knock offs might not be as good. I remember when that dowel plunge thing (company starts with a L) patent expired and none of the knockoffs were worth it.
Are you referring to the Lamello “Biscuit”/“Plate” joiner,
Or the Mafell Duo Dowel double dowel joint machine ?

There are plenty of decent biscuit joiners, some of which came out while the Lamello patent was still in force.
Some manufacturers like Elu, made a “Groover” that in use was basicslly a mini plunge saw, that could cut grooves, and work as a saw, but which also could cut the arced grooves to cut slots for the Biscuit plates, which were being purchased from Lamello anyway, so Lamello was making money anyway.
After the patent ended, Makita, Porter Cable, Dewalt, Bosch, Mafell, Elu, and Virutex all made decent Biscuit joiners.

For the Duo Doweller, Virutex makes both a corded and Cordless options, and Virutex has a decent reputation, making similar specialty tools to Festool and other cabinetmaking and carpentry specific tasks.


The Virutex are about a third the cost of the Mafell unit in the USA, but only made for the smaller dowel sizes.

As far as the other dual dowel cutter machines, most are under $150-$200, which 20 years ago, was what a decent USA or European power tool would cost at street price, if made by a large efficient manufacturer like Bosch, or Dewalt, or Milwaukee etc.I haven’t tried the other “Off” brands, but presume shortcuts may have been taken to keep the cost low.
Sadly, I haven’t kept up with woodworking magaxines, to see if any obsessive compulsive tests have been done comparing the cheaper and more expensive units.
 
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tarbellb

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Man, I've made it this long without even a biscuit jointer.

I don't believe the hype on the Domino...

Ha just sold my biscuit joiner in anticipation, plus biscuits **** anyways!
The hype is real w the domino, if youve ever been around a fine woodworker using one they are superior to everything less on the market.

That said, they are pretty specific, and many people will never actually need one.
But the Festool hype machine has catapulted the Domino into superstar territory, so I sure hope a few mfg start pumping out clones and upgraded versions soon.

Next time anybody uses their $15 multi-tool just remember Fein used to charge $300 for the tool alone. They made their nut, release the Domino hounds.
 
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neophyte

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Ha just sold my biscuit joiner in anticipation, plus biscuits **** anyways!
The hype is real w the domino, if youve ever been around a real woodworker using one they are superior to everything less on the market.

That said, they are pretty specific, and many people will never actually need one.
But the Festool hype machine has capitulated the Domino into superstar territory, so I sure hope a few mfg start pumping out clones and upgraded versions soon.

Next time anybody uses their $15 multi-tool just remember Fein used to charge $300 for the tool alone. They made their nut, release the Domino hounds.
The Fein tools were about $150 25-30 years ago.
The blades and accessories were what were really expensive.
The exception was the “Supercut” which at the time had a 400watt motor, as opposed to the 160watt motor or thereabouts in the “Multimaster” as well as a hex mount for the blades, both of which made a significant difference in performance.
Fein started upping the motor wattage on the Multimaster with each new model change, and changed the blade mount from a round to the star shaped mount, which significantly improved the cheaper Multimaster.
Fein still arguably makes the best oscillating tool, although the competing models from decent tool manufacturers are very good now, and better than the earlier Fein models.

My issue with Festool, is they make complex tools, and sometimes cheap out on the manufacturing quality, or screw up the engineering, while still charging significantly more than other major “professional” power tool manufacturers.
The Kapex miter sawis an example of this, as is the Carvex jigsaw, whose first generation had to be reengineered.
Meanwhile, with other “premium” tool manufacturers, the problems that sometimes turn up, seem to involve minor fixes, like the issues with the Mafell jigsaw, were the solution was apparently a single upgraded bearing.
 

RTM

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Man, I've made it this long without even a biscuit jointer.

I don't believe the hype on the Domino...
I bought a biscuit jointer 2 weekends ago, after 20+ years without one (BNIOB, could not turn it down at the price.) Only seen two projects where it might have helped in that 20 years, a neighbor did one for me :(

I got a bag of Domino (s) cheap. I use them as sacrificial shims to protect stuff from the vise jaws, or to get space to bend something. No way was I spending that kinda money to buy a machine to justify a cheap bag of stuff. 😁
 

tak1313

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Years ago, I bought a PC biscuit joiner (this was before the Domino came out). Like a true member, I have since not had the need to use it, so it sits in a cabinet (I don't remember which one) even though at the time, I was quite excited to get it.
 

scooby074

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What’s the issue with Kapex?
Motor windings burning up. There were a few theories, Kapex was designed for 230v, but was overworked on 120v. Another thought was it might be jobsite generator power. Or Kapex wasnt designed for the rigors of the NA jobsite.

Festool was warrantying some of them, but I believe you had to ship your heavy saw to them, which cost a fortune, and you were without your $1500 saw for however long it took for them to fix it. A lot of owners of burned out saws were rightly pissed off. Several owners had the same problem multiple times.

Not sure what the current status of Kapex is and its been a while since I read up on it, so I might have some details wrong. A search on the Festool Owners Group website will give you more current info.
 
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PCustoms

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Years ago, I bought a PC biscuit joiner (this was before the Domino came out). Like a true member, I have since not had the need to use it, so it sits in a cabinet (I don't remember which one) even though at the time, I was quite excited to get it.

In all seriousness, if you're looking to get rid of it and the price is right....

There's a few times when having one would be nice, but not required to complete a project. Haven't found a deal yet otherwise would have one.
 

PCustoms

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It's a easy way to cut mortises. Hype or no hype that fact it true. Hoping a harbor freight or grizzly version will pop up will likely be a frustrating experience. A couple thousandths out on the fence would make it unusable.
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And my tennon is made from my other parts...
 
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Max

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Man, I've made it this long without even a biscuit jointer.

I don't believe the hype on the Domino...
Try making mortises on a router table: set stops for either side of the mortise, make the cut with a bit, raise the router bit .1”, redo, etc. and etc. It’s very doable, but it takes a very long time to get one mortise done. I’ve done a dozen plus doors this way, but I got tired of spending so much time on them. YMMV.
 

KnurledNut

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Just like the Fein multi-tool or Festool plunge track saw I can't wait for the patent on the Festool Domino to expire so we can get some healthy competition!

Who's got info on when this might happen and any mfg working on competition?

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WEN Tenon-Cookies kinda has a ring to it.
 

Firebrick43

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Probably the best way to make mortise and tenon, either fixed or floating is a pantarouter.


It’s not any cheaper than a domino but is almost as easy to set up and once set up can be insanely fast.

Although you can make your own via plans from Matthias Wandel

Plus it can do things like dovetails, finger joints, and bow tie joints that a domino can not.

Of course the biggest detriment is its portability so it’s not a good job site tool. And dust collection isn’t as good as the domino or pocket mill pro, but if you have the brush guard isn’t that terrible.
 
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PCustoms

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Considering the project in the post you quoted, how exactly would you do that job with a hollow chisel mortiser?

I'd put it on the table and cut the mortise?

The center has 4 square faces.

For the legs I'd probably make a quick jig out of scraps.

I've cut a lot of them by hand before I bought tools. And I'm not that old!
 

Firebrick43

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I'd put it on the table and cut the mortise?

The center has 4 square faces.

For the legs I'd probably make a quick jig out of scraps.

I've cut a lot of them by hand before I bought tools. And I'm not that old!
I have three sizes of the ray Iles pig stickers. With a big mallet it’s actually very quick to have chisel out a mortise as you can smack them hard and pry in a way that would break most chisels.

The oval handles make them exceptionally easy to steer as well. If I am doing arts a crafts furniture it’s what I use most of the time.

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-MORT.**/English+Mortise+Chisels+by+Ray+Iles
 

PCustoms

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I have three sizes of the ray Iles pig stickers. With a big mallet it’s actually very quick to have chisel out a mortise as you can smack them hard and pry in a way that would break most chisels.

The oval handles make them exceptionally easy to steer as well. If I am doing arts a crafts furniture it’s what I use most of the time.

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-MORT.**/English+Mortise+Chisels+by+Ray+Iles

I never bought really good chisels, but I do know how to sharpen.

There's something cathartic about taking a block of wood and carving out some nice mortises.
 

neophyte

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What’s the issue with Kapex?
Motor windings burning up. There were a few theories, Kapex was designed for 230v, but was overworked on 120v. Another thought was it might be jobsite generator power. Or Kapex wasnt designed for the rigors of the NA jobsite.

Festool was warrantying some of them, but I believe you had to ship your heavy saw to them, which cost a fortune, and you were without your $1500 saw for however long it took for them to fix it. A lot of owners of burned out saws were rightly pissed off. Several owners had the same problem multiple times.

Not sure what the current status of Kapex is and its been a while since I read up on it, so I might have some details wrong. A search on the Festool Owners Group website will give you more current info.
Basically, the issue with the Kapex was what scooby074 said.
The motors were burning up, and letting out the smoke, some before the warrantee was up, but many after the warrantee had expired.
To get the saws repaired, since Festool doesn’t use independent, and more potentially local repair shops, required shipping the saws back to Festool, and if not under warrantee, paying for the repair service snd parts, which could wind up costing a few hundred dollars or more, and which was also a pain in the @ss, since a miter saw is a large heavy object, that is way more costly and annoying to ship than something like a jigsaw.

Most miter saws from major “respectable” tool manufacturers have motors that could easily last thru several owners, over decades, even in fairly constant use.
Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita, Hitachi, Dewalt, etc. probably have saws from the 1980s that are still working fine.
If these other saws broke, it was usually a smaller and possibly cheaper component that breaks, like the switch, or a failed electrical connection, or brushes, or a capacitor, or the cord.
With Festool, the saws were routinely failing due to the stator or rotor windings burning up, and those parts are expensive to replace.
There were also issues with the Kapex saws getting stuff jammed in the blade guards destroying the blade guards, but that was a less problematic issue for most users, and has turned up in the past with other saw models from brands like Dewalt or maybe Makita.

As far as why the issue happened with Festool, my general opinion is Festool, at least back when the Kapex was first released, didn’t know how to properly engineer a motor, or were getting their motors from someone else, and was not properly choosing the motors.
The Festool motors seem to run cool, even better than some other manufacturers like Hilti from a couple decades ago.
The Festool motors however in their older saw were under powered, especially when compared to older motors from manufacturers like Milwaukee, whose saws from even a decade before the Festool saws were released, tended to be higher powered, with higher speeds.
I have no clue on the current status of Festool motors, especially since Festool has been focusing on brushless motors and cordless tools.
The other potential cause of the Festool motor failures might have been the wiring insulation coating used on the motor windings.
Whatever the case, it took maybe a decade plus minus for people to stop reporting the issues, and Festool sort of left a lot of purchasers screwed over.

As for the Carvex jigsaw, the first generation had to be redesigned because the bkade guide system could actually cause jigsaw blades to melt if I recall correctly, and might have had other issues.
The second generation I think was still having issues with blades getting clamped wonkily, and possibly not remaining at a proper plumb angle in use.
For whatever reason, the Blade clamp from the older Festool Trion jigsaw, which works excellently, wasn’t used on the Carvex.
 

neophyte

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1740784148204.jpeg

And my tennon is made from my other parts...
I do find it humorous that a full stationary Powermatic chisel mortiser can be purchased for about the same price as the larger Festool Domino, and a benchtop Powermatic chisel mortiser for less than the cost of the small Festool Domino.
On the other hand, I don’t think I seen or heard too many complaints about the Domino system outside of cost, and maybe minor details like the location pins.
 

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jar944

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I'd put it on the table and cut the mortise?

The center has 4 square faces.

For the legs I'd probably make a quick jig out of scraps.

I've cut a lot of them by hand before I bought tools. And I'm not that old!

It's easier to use than a router and a jig and considerably faster. That may or may not be worth the price of admission.

You aren't going to get a hcm to cut a mortise in the end of a 8' base board.
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I have no desire to cut mortises by hand.
 

neophyte

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It's easier to use than a router and a jig and considerably faster. That may or may not be worth the price of admission.

You aren't going to get a hcm to cut a mortise in the end of a 8' base board.
Screenshot_20250228_181256_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20250228_195640_Gallery.jpg

I have no desire to cut mortises by hand.
That’s what a Horizontal Slot Mortiser is for, although the Domino is basically just a portable version.
That work looks beautiful.
A Biscuit Joiner probably would have worked as well though.
 

jar944

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That’s what a Horizontal Slot Mortiser is for, although the Domino is basically just a portable version.
That work looks beautiful.
A Biscuit Joiner probably would have worked as well though.

The domino is a bit like a swing chisel mortiser and a bit like a slot mortiser. Probably not as good as either type in a stationary machine but a lot more portable.

A biscuit works OK in that application, the domino being tighter provided better alignment on the moulding. If it's thinner trim that cant fit a domino I'll use a biscuit.
 

PCustoms

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The domino is a bit like a swing chisel mortiser and a bit like a slot mortiser. Probably not as good as either type in a stationary machine but a lot more portable.

A biscuit works OK in that application, the domino being tighter provided better alignment on the moulding. If it's thinner trim that cant fit a domino I'll use a biscuit.
Now that were arguing biscuits/Domino/tennons I'm looking at that and scratching my head why there's at least 4 separate pieces of wood in a couple feet.

Am I supposed to buy a $2k festool to save $5 worth of cutoffs from the burn bin?
 

jar944

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Now that were arguing biscuits/Domino/tennons I'm looking at that and scratching my head why there's at least 4 separate pieces of wood in a couple feet.

Am I supposed to buy a $2k festool to save $5 worth of cutoffs from the burn bin?

Look closer, Its finger jointed poplar moulding there's likely 25 separate pieces of wood in that 12' stick. There's only one field joint.

Buy the festool don't buy the festool. I doubt anyone really cares. You said you don't believe the hype. Im not sure what hype you think there is surrounding it. It cuts a mortise reasonably well and is convenient to use. That obviously isn't worth the cost to you.
 
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legenddc

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I feel like it’s been expiring for years. I picked one up used last fall and it’s awesome. Much tighter than a biscuit cutter. Much faster than mortises with a router or drilling dowels.
 

Vinny

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I don't believe the hype on the Domino...

If you're not doing production wood working, it's not worth it. If you do, it's a game changer; it saves so much time. I can knock out doors, bed frames, cabinets, etc. in a fraction of the time it takes me with any other tools.
I often wonder when the patent does end, if other companies will make copies because it's kind of a niche tool, and has to be made accurate enough that it works. Might not be able to make it for that much cheaper than Festool is.
 
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