Festool Meets A "Mechanic"

[Ryan]

So, I've been flirting with this idea for a while nowand essentially, here's how it went down:

My wife has been wanting some built-in cabinets in our dining roomand acouple of months ago, we started fielding quotes. They were outrageous...


To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.

.

 

[tatra]

Looking forward to updates. Just gotta learn to subscribe to this thread as I have never felt the urge to before. Look at some of AvE' s vids about Festool. Kinda surprising what you get for the amount they want . Agree with the 2 camps . Good luck .

 

[slodat]

Nicely done on the video, Ryan! While I am undeniably a woodworker, I do very much like a clean shop. I love using my Festool's. So much so that I often feel like an advertisement for them. They are a joy to use, and help me make some cool ish. Looking forward to see what you make with them!

 

[Ryan]

Looking forward to updates. Just gotta learn to subscribe to this thread as I have never felt the urge to before. Look at some of AvE' s vids about Festool. Kinda surprising what you get for the amount they want . Agree with the 2 camps . Good luck .

I haven't been using this stuff long enough to argue with AVE and I love his videos, but...

I assume you are talking about his TS55 teardown? I honestly think that was a click bait video for him. If you actually watch the video, most of what he find is pretty damn well made. And his major complaints?

The power cable... Honestly, this proprietary cable is one of my favorite things about Festool thus far. I have the same power cable for every one of my tools. In fact, it never leaves my dust collector. I love that.

Second, the rear bush vs a bearing out back. Even his beloved makita grinder features the same bush for rear main support.

In any case and like I said, I might end up hating this stuff. I'm still early in my efforts.

 

[AP2TUDE]

I dig this because it's exactly my situation. I don't have space for a dedicated wood shop in my standard garage, and I can't afford to give up any of that space that I use for mechanic and detail work, so I needed something that was not only very clean, but something that works well with the overall aesthetic of the garage. Festool does all that. The only downside is the price, but so far I have been very, very pleased with all the results I have gotten from everything I have used so far. I am excited to see what you do with it all, and your reviews of the tools. You have a ton of stuff I haven't bought yet, but since our tracks are so parallel, I'm stoked to see your results.

 

[K13]

I haven't been using this stuff long enough to argue with AVE and I love his videos, but...

I assume you are talking about his TS55 teardown? I honestly think that was a click bait video for him. If you actually watch the video, most of what he find is pretty damn well made. And his major complaints?

The power cable... Honestly, this proprietary cable is one of my favorite things about Festool thus far. I have the same power cable for every one of my tools. In fact, it never leaves my dust collector. I love that.

Second, the rear bush vs a bearing out back. Even his beloved makita grinder features the same bush for rear main support.

In any case and like I said, I might end up hating this stuff. I'm still early in my efforts.

While I agree about your comments about his click bait aspect I think he does have valid points about these two complaints.

You are looking at the proprietary plug from the aspect of someone who has all Festool and has more than one piece that one could grab from if something happened but from the perspective of someone who only has one tool it would be a bit of a pain if one lost or damaged the cord to the point of it not being usable.

I found his point on the bushing to be they went the extra mile on all the other parts in that area of the saw why skimp on th bushing. It's a high end tool that should be built to higher standard than a Makita grinder.

Although I would never have the need to drop the kind of money on Festool I look forward to your "reviews".

 

[Ryan]

While I agree about your comments about his click bait aspect I think he does have valid points about these two complaints.

You are looking at the proprietary plug from the aspect of someone who has all Festool and has more than one piece that one could grab from if something happened but from the perspective of someone who only has one tool it would be a bit of a pain if one lost or damaged the cord to the point of it not being usable.

I found his point on the bushing to be they went the extra mile on all the other parts in that area of the saw why skimp on th bushing. It's a high end tool that should be built to higher standard than a Makita grinder.

Although I would never have the need to drop the kind of money on Festool I look forward to your "reviews".

Yeah and he certainly knows WAYYYYYY more about this stuff than I do. My impression is off the cuff for sure... I guess time will tell!

 

[ilovevocs]

Ryan,

Looking forward to following your adventure here on GJ. I recently made a departure into wood working and was toying around with festool.

Went the cheaper route with a bosch table saw and router. My solution for dust collection was to just work outside as weather permitted.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan,

Looking forward to following your adventure here on GJ. I recently made a departure into wood working and was toying around with festool.

Went the cheaper route with a bosch table saw and router. My solution for dust collection was to just work outside as weather permitted.

I've got far enough into this stuff at this point to know how much fun a planer and a joiner would be. And with my love of vintage machinery, I know if I every do get one of each they will both be older than me and sans any kind of dust collection. Given that, they would have to be on mobile bases so that I could move them outside.

 

[justbummin1]

Last week I did a couple of wood projects in my garage and DESTROYED it!!! I told my wife F it I am drinking the green Kool-aid and am getting some new toys. I am looking forward to your projects because I know enough to know that I have a lot of learning to do with wood but good tools make every job some much easier and more fun to do. Now if I wasnt such a cheap ******* I would go nuts and order a bunch at one shot like you did.

Rob

 

[danski0224]

So, I've been flirting with this idea for a while nowand essentially, here's how it went down:

My wife has been wanting some built-in cabinets in our dining roomand acouple of months ago, we started fielding quotes. They were outrageous...

What door style are you thinking about?

Did you get a Domino?

 

[Ryan]

What door style are you thinking about?

Did you get a Domino?

Frameless... and yeah, I got the small domino. In fact, I just used it for the first time. Pretty cool!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Great presentation. Looking forward to the updates!!

 

[rlitman]

... My solution for dust collection was to just work outside as weather permitted.

If I did that, I'd never get anything done.

While I agree about your comments about his click bait aspect I think he does have valid points about these two complaints.

You are looking at the proprietary plug from the aspect of someone who has all Festool and has more than one piece that one could grab from if something happened but ...

That's who Festool is marketing to. The high end traveling cabinet makers love their stuff because it is amazingly portable, and the dust collection means you can do real work inside someone's house and have minimal cleanup.

Ryan's comment about leaving the cord in the vacuum struck a chord with me. That really sums it up, and makes a simple feature all the more impressive.

For my part, I don't mind a messy shop. But I still don't want to breathe in dust. And the more I read about the subject, the more I am a believer that the only good way to keep sawdust down is to remove it at the source. As such, a tool with good dust collection is important.

I've been oogling their strobe lit jigsaw for years, but I'm so happy with my Bosch that the price difference prevents me from making the jump. I completely understand how cool the Domino system is, but for my own projects I prefer traditional wood joints, and am happy to use a biscuit or two when it serves my purposes. To that end, I just made a tenoning jig for my tablesaw, and have no aversion to chopping out a mortise with a chisel.

 

[TNBurban]

If I did that, I'd never get anything done.



That's who Festool is marketing to. The high end traveling cabinet makers love their stuff because it is amazingly portable, and the dust collection means you can do real work inside someone's house and have minimal cleanup.

Ryan's comment about leaving the cord in the vacuum struck a chord with me. That really sums it up, and makes a simple feature all the more impressive.

For my part, I don't mind a messy shop. But I still don't want to breathe in dust. And the more I read about the subject, the more I am a believer that the only good way to keep sawdust down is to remove it at the source. As such, a tool with good dust collection is important.

I've been oogling their strobe lit jigsaw for years, but I'm so happy with my Bosch that the price difference prevents me from making the jump. I completely understand how cool the Domino system is, but for my own projects I prefer traditional wood joints, and am happy to use a biscuit or two when it serves my purposes. To that end, I just made a tenoning jig for my tablesaw, and have no aversion to chopping out a mortise with a chisel.

The domino joints are way better than the traditional biscuit joints. And the domino xl joints are extremely strong. Both are about as close to a thru tenon you can get.

For me the biggest things with Festool are

1. Dust collection of course
2. Accuracy
3. Repeatability
4. Mobility

 

[rlitman]

The domino joints are way better than the traditional biscuit joints...

I won't argue with that at all. I did not mean to imply that a biscuit joiner is a substitute for a Domino. I like biscuits for places where a spline works well, as well as for places where it helps in glueup alignment. But where a real tenon would be stronger, that's what I'll do.

I've got far enough into this stuff at this point to know how much fun a planer and a joiner would be. And with my love of vintage machinery, I know if I every do get one of each they will both be older than me and sans any kind of dust collection. Given that, they would have to be on mobile bases so that I could move them outside.

I've never understood why home shops have power jointers. I have a Stanley #7 cast iron bodied jointer plane, and with a workpiece firmly secured to the workbench, I can plane it to a glue joint ready line just as quickly as a power machine, often with better results.

As for planing, I used to have that all done for me at the lumberyard, but since they've gone out of business, I need to rethink those plans. However, for the most part, I'm fine with working my plans around the standard sizes available in S4S lumber. Now if I owned a CNC (where it's best to be able to control the stock thickness going in), or if I did a lot of work with home milled lumber, then I'd probably have a planer already.

 

[jarhead]

Definately following your adventure. I had to seperate my wood shop from my mechanic shop.

Joe

 

[Ryan]

Why have a power jointer?!? Cuz it's fun! And the reason I want one is not to create jointable surfaces so much... I want to be able to create one perfectly flat side to be used as a reference for the planer. I would **** at this with your no. 7.

As for pre-dimensioned lumber... that stuff is never accurately dimensioned when I buy it. In fact, I'm dealing with that right now. I just assume have my own jointer and planer so I have less variables to worry about.

 

[moparfreak]

As someone who has a combined wood shop / mechanics shop / DD garage, I can say I certainly understand the frustration of getting wood dust everywhere.

For the last few years I've been focused on WW projects primarily and also setting up the shop at the same time. This means good DC has been last thought, and I power through using all my tools as they spray fine dust every which way. But, now I've started going back through and starting to add a few vacs in different places and preparing to buy a full fledged cyclone dust collector to handle the large tools. I'm also starting to build out each power tool station to accomodate effective dust collection hoods. I think it's definitely possible to get a low-dust or dust-free WW shop w/o investing in green, but it takes a lot of creativity, work, and money spent in other places (ducting, DC machine, etc.). Yes, for now the Charger's covered w/ dust, but that will change. Regardless of how you do it, it's cool to see how the makeup and capability of a shop evolves based on the projects come in and out.

 

[LeeG]

For years I scoffed at the people who spend the big money on Festool. I started with a router and was amazed at how good the dust collection was. I have since added most of their tool line to my shop and been very pleased.

One tip on using the track saw with sheet goods: get a sheet of foam insulation. Lay it on the ground and put the full sheet on top. Cut it down to manageable size with the saw depth set to just penetrate 1/8" or so into the insulation. Both sides of the cut will be supported through the cut and you don't have to manhandle full size sheets up on a table.

 

[rlitman]

Why have a power jointer?!? Cuz it's fun! And the reason I want one is not to create jointable surfaces so much... I want to be able to create one perfectly flat side to be used as a reference for the planer. I would **** at this with your no. 7.

As for pre-dimensioned lumber... that stuff is never accurately dimensioned when I buy it. In fact, I'm dealing with that right now. I just assume have my own jointer and planer so I have less variables to worry about.

Perfectly good arguments, though I feel the need to point out that planers add plenty of their own variables (snipe for one). When it comes to buying lumber, the best advice I can give you is to have patience and pick. Most stuff on the racks is ****, even when you're paying "select" prices. And if I find a vein of good stuff (because the mill was having a good day or whatever), I'll buy extra.

For me, there's not much more fun in seeing (and hearing) a shaving leave my plane. It's therapeutic. Powering it just adds noise and makes more dust. And getting a perfectly flat edge with a hand plane is easier than it sounds. You can even clamp the plane in the vise and move the workpiece (as you would with a jointer) if that works better. But for a reference surface (at least for setup), I'll use something metal.

Then again, I learned woodworking skills from people trained the old fashioned way. For measurements, dividers, pencil, straightedge, marking knife and square cover nearly everything your eye can't do alone. There isn't much call for rulers. Working that way, perfectly accurate stock thickness isn't all that important. What is important, is knowing which dimensions are critical, and which can just go with the flow.

That's not to say I eschew the niceties in measuring tools myself. I just added a Wixey DRO to my tablesaw, and find myself using it for every single cut (and I use a vernier height gauge when setting blade height is important).

 

[DaveIRL]

Snap on for carpenters, wood workers, cabinet makers

 

[cort]

Festool really shines when is comes to making case goods out of sheet products. The only downside really is the initial cost of the tools.

 

[will gilmore]

Can you post a list of what you bought? I'm more comfortable in metal / cars as well but would like the capability to do wood as well.

 

[Stuey]

Good call on the MFT table.

I would also recommend "parf dogs." I believe Festool products carries them too. They're work stops for the MFT table, helps with alignment for parallel and 90 degree cuts.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=71185&cat=1,41637

 

[Trey T]

I like Festool. The thing about Festool is that if you want to become a cabinet maker full time and don't have the $100K capital to build a shop and outfit it, an average guy can spend about $10K and start making money.

Ryan: How much was the quote on the cabinets that your wife got?

 

[Ryan]

Can you post a list of what you bought? I'm more comfortable in metal / cars as well but would like the capability to do wood as well.

Here's the list I started out with(I think this changed a bit, but I got most of it):

MFT/3 Multifunction Table - 495315

TS 55 REQ Imp. Plunge Cut Track Saw - 574683

75" Guide Rail FS 1900 - 491503

Guide Rail Connector - 482107

Parallel Guide Set - P00108

OF 1400 EQ Imp. Plunge Router - 574692

LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer - 584100

Rotex RO 150 FEQ Multi-Mode Sander - 571810

Systainer With Insert For 6" Sander Abrasives - 497690

Domino DF 500 Mortise and Tenon Joiner Set - 574432

Domino DF 500 Tenon Assortment - 498899

Good call on the MFT table.

I would also recommend "parf dogs." I believe Festool products carries them too. They're work stops for the MFT table, helps with alignment for parallel and 90 degree cuts.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=71185&cat=1,41637

Yes sir, I got em...

I like Festool. The thing about Festool is that if you want to become a cabinet maker full time and don't have the $100K capital to build a shop and outfit it, an average guy can spend about $10K and start making money.

Ryan: How much was the quote on the cabinets that your wife got?

Everywhere from $4500 to $7200. It's a pretty big set of built in cabinets (frameless cabinets on bottom, shelves up top), but still...

 

[Git]

Good luck with your woodworking adventure

I too have drunk the Festool Kool Aid - and spit a lot of it back out!

Don't get me wrong, Festool makes some very nice tools, but not everything they make is the greatest thing since sliced bread... For example - good luck with that $335 POS parallel guide set for your track saw. Been there, done that, sent it back. There are a lot better aftermarket solutions - like this one from Seneca WoodWorking:

http://www.toolnut.com/seneca-woodworking-parallel-guide-system-for-incra-t-track-plus.html

LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer - that is $500 I wish I never spent, but I am stuck with it now.

I see in your video, you have the obligatory STACK OF FESTOOL SYSTAINERS to show how many you own I will look forward to your reviews - and don't take this personally, but I kind of look at these types of reviews a little differently than someone who actually has 'skin in the game'. What I mean by that is when you spend your hard earned money you kind of look at things differently then say when someone gives you $7,000 worth of tools for free

 

[Stuey]

Q1: Did you also get a CT dust extractor? They work amazingly well with Festool tools. I guess you have another dust extractor vac?

Q2: Why the Rotex instead of a different sander? I have the ETS 150/3, and chose it because I felt it's better suited for finish work, while the Rotex seems more suited for rougher or refinishing work.

http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/sanders/ets-1503-eq-random-orbital-finish-sander-571903 ,

 

[Stuey]

Good luck with your woodworking adventure

I too have drunk the Festool Kool Aid - and spit a lot of it back out!

Don't get me wrong, Festool makes some very nice tools, but not everything they make is the greatest thing since sliced bread... For example - good luck with that $335 POS parallel guide set for your track saw. Been there, done that, sent it back. There are a lot better aftermarket solutions - like this one from Seneca WoodWorking:

http://www.toolnut.com/seneca-woodworking-parallel-guide-system-for-incra-t-track-plus.html

LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer - that is $500 I wish I never spent, but I am stuck with it now.

I see in your video, you have the obligatory STACK OF FESTOOL SYSTAINERS to show how many you own I will look forward to your reviews - and don't take this personally, but I kind of look at these types of reviews a little differently than someone who actually has 'skin in the game'. What I mean by that is when you spend your hard earned money you kind of look at things differently then say when someone gives you $7,000 worth of tools for free

+1

I purchased the Festool tools I wanted, but have also received review/test samples of some tools.

I always raise an eyebrow when I see "reviewers" who have never purchased Festool tools start gushing with Festool praise.

I like to think that I am very objective and impartial when it comes to tool reviews, but tools in the "I wouldn't buy this or something like this" category are always difficult to write about.

So when someone who has never purchased any Festool before is telling their audience to buy some Festool tool that was handed to them, can I trust it?

Sometimes I know the answer is yes, other times I know the answer is no, but there's also a big grey area.

 

[jar944]

Yes sir, I got em...



Everywhere from $4500 to $7200. It's a pretty big set of built in cabinets (frameless cabinets on bottom, shelves up top), but still...

How many lineal feet? That doesn't sound that bad depending on the details.

 

[Ryan]

Good luck with your woodworking adventure

I too have drunk the Festool Kool Aid - and spit a lot of it back out!

Don't get me wrong, Festool makes some very nice tools, but not everything they make is the greatest thing since sliced bread... For example - good luck with that $335 POS parallel guide set for your track saw. Been there, done that, sent it back. There are a lot better aftermarket solutions - like this one from Seneca WoodWorking:

http://www.toolnut.com/seneca-woodworking-parallel-guide-system-for-incra-t-track-plus.html

LR 32 Hole Drilling Set In Systainer - that is $500 I wish I never spent, but I am stuck with it now.

I see in your video, you have the obligatory STACK OF FESTOOL SYSTAINERS to show how many you own I will look forward to your reviews - and don't take this personally, but I kind of look at these types of reviews a little differently than someone who actually has 'skin in the game'. What I mean by that is when you spend your hard earned money you kind of look at things differently then say when someone gives you $7,000 worth of tools for free

I'm literally unbuyable. Like I said in both the video and my article, I paid for these tools with my own money. I guess you didn't read it before commenting? I can count on one hand the number of times I've gotten free tools... and this wasn't one of those times.

In any case, I've got a few weeks with these tools and have plenty to ***** about... overall, however, I'm pretty happy.

I feel ya on the parallel guides, but the LR32? I love it.

 

[Git]

I'm literally unbuyable. Like I said in both the video and my article, I paid for these tools with my own money. I guess you didn't read it before commenting? I can count on one hand the number of times I've gotten free tools... and this wasn't one of those times.

In any case, I've got a few weeks with these tools and have plenty to ***** about... overall, however, I'm pretty happy.

I feel ya on the parallel guides, but the LR32? I love it.

Maybe I misunderstood. Here is what you wrote

"I told them about my project and they decided to sponsor me after the fact"

It sounded to me like they picked up the tab after you ordered? My apologies if that is not the case. So what does "sponsored after the fact" mean?

Wait until you try to use the LR32 on a piece that is a little shorter than the LR32 system will handle. The front set of holes (for shelves) works fine, but when you flip it around for the back set...

 

[Ryan]

Maybe I misunderstood. Here is what you wrote

"I told them about my project and they decided to sponsor me after the fact"

It sounded to me like they picked up the tab after you ordered? My apologies if that is not the case. So what does "sponsored after the fact" mean?

Wait until you try to use the LR32 on a piece that is a little shorter than the LR32 system will handle. The front set of holes (for shelves) works fine, but when you flip it around for the back set...

Yeah. Misunderstood. I paid in full for every tool I got. Toolnut.com bought an ad space afterwards, but it was for far less then the amount of the tools and it's a space I would have sold anyhow. I'm not for sale man and never have been.

We shall see on the LR32. I used it today for a typical shelving application and it was fantastic. Plus it made the euro hinge install a breeze.

 

[Git]

Sorry - I misunderstood and your situation is quite a bit different than what I first imagined

Since you mentioned Euro Hinges - I found a dedicated jig works a lot better than the LR32.

I have this Hettich jig - It comes with the bit for the cup and it will also drill the two holes for the screws
http://www.woodstocksupply.com/hinge-drilling-jig-47303-hettich.html

CMT also makes a version - more so for a drill press
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0017Q1WYO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And if you really want to spend money, Blum makes one
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006HFCNM/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Euro Hinges can be a little complicated when you first start working with them - especially when it comes time to order them. I have this guide bookmarked and found it to be very helpfull
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...rdware.com/media/pdf/ConcealedHingeBasics.pdf

Also WWHardware has excellent prices on Blum Hinges and drawer slides

 

[Git]

Oh - I forgot to mention. If Festool is so 'well engineered', works as a system, etc - why do they sell tracks for their track saws with and without holes for the LR32 System? Why not just make all the tracks with holes in them?

 

[Ryan]

Oh - I forgot to mention. If Festool is so 'well engineered', works as a system, etc - why do they sell tracks for their track saws with and without holes for the LR32 System? Why not just make all the tracks with holes in them?

Hell if I know. But I think the 55" holy track is all I need. And you can ask for the holy track in leu of any other when you order the track saw. So at the end of the day, I'm good.

Thanks for the tips on the euro hinges. I'll check it out!

 

[Fury5]

Wait until the first time you use that CT to vacuum/clean one of your cars, or your shop floor, or your house. The CTs will soon start multiplying.

 

[Git]

Wait until the first time you use that CT to vacuum/clean one of your cars, or your shop floor, or your house. The CTs will soon start multiplying.

Thats funny, I have a CT 36 with the $400 work center sitting on top. When I needed a second vac - I bought a Bosch! (The add-on cleaning set for Festool is $300)

And you know what, Bosch doesn't raise their prices every year for no apparent reason other than they can

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HUCUK6K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[JonnyMac]

Who cares about the cost, the buzz getting that monster stack of green delivered would have been worth every cent!!!