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Festool Proliferation

Southernbuild

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How widespread is Festool ownership / use?

Obviously they have some great tools, and I own several, but how many people are actually using them? According to Youtube / Fine Woodworking / Fine Homebuilding you would think that "everyone" has them. But, its just recently that I talked my cabinet guy into buying some. Otherwise I don't know of anyone running them.

I feel like it's the Snap-on equivalent for woodworking, where a lot of people want them just for the prestige factor. Not that bling is bad :pimpflash

So, what's your thoughts?
 
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mike93lx

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How widespread is Festool ownership / use?

Obviously they have some great tools, and I own several, but how many people are actually using them? According to Youtube / Fine Woodworking / Fine Homebuilding you would think that "everyone" has them. But, its just recently that I talked my cabinet guy into buying some. Otherwise I don't know of anyone running them.

I feel like it's the Snap-on equivalent for woodworking, where a lot of people want them just for the prestige factor. Not that bling is bad :pimpflash

So, what's your thoughts?
I dont have any and don't have any friends running their stuff either. I don't do enough woodworking to justify the significant cost jump over "lesser" brands
 

acer66

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Just used their track saw to cut a jig saw puzzle type of wooden countertop inside a customers home.

I wanted a Festool track saw for a long time when they were kinda the only player in town so I got one plus vacuum.

Not sure if I would buy one these days without taken a hard look at the competition thought.

Otherwise I have one of their sanders and an old defunct drill.

One a funny side note I was at a party where the owner offered me a job to build an entertainment center but I have to use his domino which he bought but never used. 😛
 

tarmy

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I got into them for dust control on their sanders and routers. Was building a lot of cabinets for our house. this is part of my stash…got more in some other cabinets that I don’t have pics of. They build beautiful tools that work well. I am the same with guns and most tools…no **** and like using finely machined tools and guns.
IMG_1327.jpeg
 

bpwoodworking

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I use a fair amount of festool stuff. Bought a track saw, dust collector and router about 15 years ago.

It was significantly better than the next best thing in my opinion so I am happy with them, mainly.

Now I have the trim router, drill/driver and the Multitool.

I sold their sanders, Kapex and track saws, I use Mirka sanders and Mafell track saws.

Festool is pretty good, Mafell is better mainly but festool gets routers and vacuums really right.

Kapex I hated, sanders were ok but I like mirka better. Track saws were all way under powered, the Mafell stuff is leagues ahead there and much bigger saws are available.
 

acer66

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I use a fair amount of festool stuff. Bought a track saw, dust collector and router about 15 years ago.

It was significantly better than the next best thing in my opinion so I am happy with them, mainly.

Now I have the trim router, drill/driver and the Multitool.

I sold their sanders, Kapex and track saws, I use Mirka sanders and Mafell track saws.

Festool is pretty good, Mafell is better mainly but festool gets routers and vacuums really right.

Kapex I hated, sanders were ok but I like mirka better. Track saws were all way under powered, the Mafell stuff is leagues ahead there and much bigger saws are available.
Mafell makes Festool look cheap.😉
 

bpwoodworking

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I agree, it’s painful at times and they are worse than festool about making everything proprietary. It’s beyond annoying when buying tooling.

That said, they are usually better enough that it’s worth it for me since I use their stuff professionally.

All it takes is one larger job that goes much faster because of one of these tools to make them worthwhile, and the manufactures know that, so they charge accordingly 😂
 

Dave455

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I think quite a few people have them, certainly for professional use.

I can’t think of anyone I know who has them for “prestige”, always assuming anyone outside the trades even knows what they are.

I am, however, in the U.K. and you tend to find different power tools here from those you see in the U.S.

And I can’t think of anyone here who has exclusively Festool. A lot, yes, but not all.

I suspect a lot of folks do what I did, which was to buy one tool, because I had a need. My smallest ni-cad powered drill had died, I used it a lot, and wanted something decent to replace it with. I also had an upcoming job where I needed a 90 degree attachment. The Festool CXS did everything I wanted.

Since then, I’ve become something of a convert. We get used to power tools made as cheaply as possible, but here’s something different. They feel like quality from the outset.

A decade on, it’s all still working. Still on my first pair of batteries. The Centrotec ”chuck” is genius - used with the right angle attachment it gets into places no other chuck can. The interchangeable chucks are fantastic anyway, they grip properly, and no other system makes it as easy to pre load chucks with different bits and swap in seconds.

So, now I have a palm sander too, and my next mitre saw will be the KS60.

Not everything is perfect. I don’t like the switch from hard plastic casings to rubber over moulded ones. That’s a weakness. I don’t like the way they are moving to exclusively cordless tools. I‘d have bought a Quadrill if I’d known.

But most of all, they don’t make the best of everything. You have to assess each need and buy the tool that best suits. Even if you wanted (and could afford) the very best, you wouldn’t achieve it by buying all Festool! You would get close though, which makes them a safe bet for pro users!
 

tyyost

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I struggle with this, I really want a Rotex 150 and a Domino. I bought a Makita Track saw a few years ago and it scratched that itch for me and has been a great tool. I think Bosch has an answer for the Rotex that more in my budget, but there is no other tool like the domino.

They certainly make quality tools, and the accessories are top notch. I’m still too traditional to benefit from the whole ecosystem, but if I did mobile woodworking/ trim carpentry it would be the first choice.

And to the OP I don’t know anyone using Festool, and have only seen those tools on job sites with high end flooring guys fwiw.
 

mobiledynamics

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I have alot of Festool.....including the drywall vac and wall sander - so it's not just woodworking , as a weekend warrior.

Out here, Festool seems to be the default for millworkers installer on site. I suppose it's the same for dust control and it's a *eco-system*.
I don't even compare costs, but as a WAG statement, consumables are ridiculously expensive...with Festool. I really need to put on my thinking hat as I did drink the Green Kool-Aid but some of the plastic on their stuff does have me scratching my head at times. As I'm now a bit older, I am thinking more about how much I spend per buy.....and the ROI
 
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dnschmidt

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If you are just talking the actual tools themselves then they are about 60% overrated. If you are talking dust extraction they are 100% what they claim to be. Other than the Domino, which is a completely unique and fabulous tool, there are just as good and cheaper alternatives available for 95% of their stuff. Milwaukee's cordless track saw is at least twice as powerful as any Festool track saw including those that plug in. Festool's claim to fame is their superior dust extraction. This is particularly true of their routers than have fantastic dust extraction for such an inherently dirty tool but then again they ruin that by making you buy 8mm router bits which are about as common as unicorns.
 
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Southernbuild

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I struggle with this, I really want a Rotex 150 and a Domino. I bought a Makita Track saw a few years ago and it scratched that itch for me and has been a great tool. I think Bosch has an answer for the Rotex that more in my budget, but there is no other tool like the domino.

They certainly make quality tools, and the accessories are top notch. I’m still too traditional to benefit from the whole ecosystem, but if I did mobile woodworking/ trim carpentry it would be the first choice.

And to the OP I don’t know anyone using Festool, and have only seen those tools on job sites with high end flooring guys fwiw.
If it helps you feel better, I've got the Domino, but typically use my biscuit jointer instead. Typically used on 3/4" plywood. Habbit plus cheaper consumables plus lighter / more nimble I guess.

I've also got the Makita tracksaw, which BTW is compatible with Festool tracks.
 
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Southernbuild

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I got into them for dust control on their sanders and routers. Was building a lot of cabinets for our house. this is part of my stash…got more in some other cabinets that I don’t have pics of. They build beautiful tools that work well. I am the same with guns and most tools…no **** and like using finely machined tools and guns.
IMG_1327.jpeg
Nice collection!

I'm definantly a sucker for premium quality. I like nice stuff :rocker:
 
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Southernbuild

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One a funny side note I was at a party where the owner offered me a job to build an entertainment center but I have to use his domino which he bought but never used. 😛
That's too funny! So, did you do the job? I'd be tempted to try to get it thrown in as partial payment for the job. $$$
 
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Max

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I’ve got the TS-55 track saw and a sander. The sander is good but not great, but the track saw is a game changer vs. my previous circular saw and guide.

Edited to add:
I have lusted after the domino for some time as I hate making mortises. Supposedly its patent expires this year so I am interested in what their competition does.
 
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Jr5

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Only festool I own is the CXS drill. I’m all Milwaukee other than that. The drill isn’t powerful, but I use it for more delicate stuff, and the trigger control is amazing.
 
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Southernbuild

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If you are just talking the actual tools themselves then they are about 60% overrated. If you are talking dust extraction they are 100% what they claim to be. Other than the Domino, which is a completely unique and fabulous tool, there are just as good and cheaper alternatives available for 95% of their stuff. Milwaukee's cordless track saw is at least twice as powerful as any Festool track saw including those that plug in. Festool's claim to fame is their superior dust extraction. This is particularly true of their routers than have fantastic dust extraction for such an inherently dirty tool but then again they ruin that by making you buy 8mm router bits which are about as common as unicorns.
Working in high end houses, the dust collection was defiantly the justification I needed to go down the Festool rabbit hole.

8mm does feel like a good size for a router bit shank; but, they definantly are tough to source. However, my 1010 router came with a 1/4" collet as well, so that's convenient.
 

jar944

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If you are buying it just for the prestige, you missed the mark since it's not the most prestigious brand.

I have the large domino and a couple sanders. They work well enough.
 

neophyte

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I bought into the “Festool System” at one point, but got a bit less enamored with the brand.

The Festool tools were sold as a “system”, but over time, I came to realize that the “systenatic” design, was only partial, and not really consistent over time.
The MFT tables for instance, got redesigned, to different dimensions, with different heights, and aluminum extrusion profiles.
The new table design would probably be considered better, but if you had already purchased multiple tables, then your choice was to sell your old tables yo buy the “new” modular Festool MFT system, or stick with your old tables, and hope you can find extra used tables to expand the Old MFT system if you need to, and also hope any new MFT accessories Festool makes for the new MFT tables will git, or can be easily adapted to the old MFT tables.
The older MFT tables ran about $300-$400 at the time, and the current MFT tables are around $600-$800, so simply upgrading just two tables is not cheap.
In addition, certain accessories made for the older tables were not made for the newer system.

Other sections of the “Festool System” were also not really modular and expandable easily as well.
The Systainer cases years ago were around $30-$40 a piece for the Classic systainers.
This was around the cost of a nice USA made steel tool case, or maybe just a bit higher.
Since then, the Systainer cost gas doubled, and the fancier systainers, that would be more practical in use, such as the Combi Systainers, are close to $200 each.
For some of the Festool tools, you might need yo upgrade simply for convenience, since the Systainer case the tool comes with is too small to house optional Festool accessories you might want to purchase to get maximum use out of the tool.
Spending 3x the amount for the Festool version of a tool, then an extra $150+ on a different Systainer, is just irritating.
Also, while Festool did make the new Systainer cases somewhat compatible with the older classic series, the cases aren’t really fully compatible, giving the same benefits as owning all older cases or newer cases.

Festool saws usually use Metric blade sizes, making blades harder to to purchase in the USA, although Festool is popular enough that that is not as much of an issue nowadays, but it can be if your goal is just to go buy a blade at the local home center.

Festool for some annoying reason, can’t design their tools to work with a single battery type, resulting in specialty batteries for certain specific tool models, that only work with a few tools, even if the cordless tools are the sane voltage.
Supposedly this gas to do with ergonomics.
At least it’s better than the older Festool system were you not only needed proprietary batteries for each cordless tool, but also proprietary chargers for those batteries as well. (tools from the same catalog year, and introduced around the same time).

For the price some of the Festool accessories cost, their are aftermarket manufacturers that produce way better made, and more accurate versions. (Microfence for example)

Festool generally manufactures their tools for cabinetmaking, so certain tools, such as their jigsaws, nay not be as good as alternatives, such as a top of the line Bosch, for tasks such as cutting metals and other materials
This is especially annoying since Bosch jigsaws cost less.

The Featool buyers seem to a certain extent to have the “Apple” brand loyalty, which can mean any criticism of Festool, no matter how legitimate, gets disparaged.
Any older model tool that is two or three years older than a current model seems to be considered “obsolete”, despite other power tool companies selling tools that are basically 20-30 year old designs, which at most are slightly updated, or updatable, and considered perfectly usable or standard. (Ie. An older drill model, but now with a keyless chuck)

Certain tools, such as the Carvex jigsaw, and Kapex gad major issues when first released.
The Kapex saws routinely died an early death due to motors dmoking, and the Carvex basically needed to be reissued in a version 2, because due to blades melting.
It’s not that other power tool companies haven’t had major issues, but when you charge 3-4x the price, the issues are a bit concerning.

The older Festool tolls used to be designed with maximum versatility in mind, so users could get the most use out of a limited selection of tools, using optional accessories.
Festool still manufactures some of those “versatile” tools, but they seem to be focusing on tools with limited specialty uses nowadays instead.

I don’t want to completely sh!t on Festool.
The tools they manufacture are routinely more versatile than similar tools from other manufacturers, and usually better made, though with exceptions for brands like Mafell, but some of the advantages that routinely got touted were sort of not a thing.
 

bpwoodworking

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I agree, my biggest current complaint is that festool has its own battery style that is slightly different that the German CAS system which fits a ton of other brands including Mafell and Metabo (Germany).

They do a lot of things just to get you to spend a little more that’s on the annoying side.

The MFT I have and use, it’s ok. Mostly think it’s a flimsy piece of junk, that of course requires two sets of $90/pr struts to become halfway sturdy.

They also need to make a light ring for their routers.

I do love that everything has good dust collection.
 

goldtang

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I have one Festool 180 mm Rotary polisher it was given to me about 10 + years ago
has spent its most of its life polishing cars and occasionally had a sanding disk to remove paint or rust on steel
Has good speed range from 800 to 2400 RPM

 

tak1313

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The only Festool I have ever considered buying (but have not yet) is the Domino, but I have been thinking about it for so long, the patent is running out this year (2024) so now I'm thinking I'm going to wait a little longer and see what comes out from other manufacturers.
 

purplezr2

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Mafell makes Festool look cheap.😉
Mafell new Lo55 router looks sweet!

That said hard to justify the price.

In response to the original question.

I think Festool makes a few niche tools that are very nice(Domino/ drywall sanders). Dust collection on most is head and shoulders above alot of big box store equipment, so for those working on site, or even in a shop where cleanliness is a concern it is a good choice. I would say to a point it is a ecosystem that is a slippery slope . Once you have a few pieces and you are using dust collection, then you need difference hose ends if you don't have all the same brand etc. Similar to the battery argument.

I have a few higher end tools, two Festool pieces, one mirka, and one lamello. They all make nice equipment, and they were purchased for a specific reason, but it ***** that they don't all have compatible dust collection and power cables. That is were 3D printing comes in.
 

cgrutt

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I have their vac and had three of their sanders the combination is IMO the best dust collection system I've ever used. I sold the sanders due to financial reasons and have continued to use vac with both Makita and Porter-cable sanders and dust collection is good but no where near as good as with the Festool sanders. One look at paper and it's evident why that's the case (I believe Makita now has a knock off Rotax sander that is compatible with Festool paper).

Festool Paper...

images (5).jpeg


One of the sanders was pretty much unique to Festool. It was a straight sander (back and forth not random orbit) that had pads that could be profiled to match contours of various moldings. I used that on several painting jobs of old houses with elaborate moldings and it made the job much easier and cleaner than sanding by hand. I will definitely be buying another Rotax sander and probably a few others as I still have the paper for them. The vac is great. Bought the handle kit (similar to a hand truck) and stainless steel tube kit. Both were expensive but the vac and attachments are so much better than the big box vacs (I own several of those as well and they have their place). I use Festool blades on my Fein multitool because they're the only thing that works (universal blades don't fit). I want to buy a tracksaw leaning towards Festool mainly because I use their vac but Makita is another knockoff and costs much less. I'd love the Mafel but $$$$.
 

Davefr

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I love the Festool CXS cordless drill. The ergonomics and linearity of the speed control is amazing. I wouldn't recommend it for heavy construction but for woodworking and precision tasks it's the best cordless drill I've ever used.
 
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Southernbuild

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One of the sanders was pretty much unique to Festool. It was a straight sander (back and forth not random orbit) that had pads that could be profiled to match contours of various moldings. I used that on several painting jobs of old houses with elaborate moldings and it made the job much easier and cleaner than sanding by hand.
Unfortunately, I think they discontinued that sander :(

I've been watching for one on eBay, but no dice so far.
 
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Southernbuild

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But most of all, they don’t make the best of everything. You have to assess each need and buy the tool that best suits. Even if you wanted (and could afford) the very best, you wouldn’t achieve it by buying all Festool! You would get close though, which makes them a safe bet for pro users!
This is an important point to consider, I feel like they are wasting bandwidth trying to duplicate construction tools, that don't have anything innovative about them. Ie, the sawzall, angle grinder, drywall mud mixer...

Personally, I'm not sure the benefit, if any with their drills / impact drivers, and miter saw...

To me, Festool shines with the tools that have amazing odball accessories that adds precision, and control.
 
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Southernbuild

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I bought into the “Festool System” at one point, but got a bit less enamored with the brand.

The Festool tools were sold as a “system”, but over time, I came to realize that the “systenatic” design, was only partial, and not really consistent over time.
The MFT tables for instance, got redesigned, to different dimensions, with different heights, and aluminum extrusion profiles.
The new table design would probably be considered better, but if you had already purchased multiple tables, then your choice was to sell your old tables yo buy the “new” modular Festool MFT system, or stick with your old tables, and hope you can find extra used tables to expand the Old MFT system if you need to, and also hope any new MFT accessories Festool makes for the new MFT tables will git, or can be easily adapted to the old MFT tables.
The older MFT tables ran about $300-$400 at the time, and the current MFT tables are around $600-$800, so simply upgrading just two tables is not cheap.
In addition, certain accessories made for the older tables were not made for the newer system.

Other sections of the “Festool System” were also not really modular and expandable easily as well.
The Systainer cases years ago were around $30-$40 a piece for the Classic systainers.
This was around the cost of a nice USA made steel tool case, or maybe just a bit higher.
Since then, the Systainer cost gas doubled, and the fancier systainers, that would be more practical in use, such as the Combi Systainers, are close to $200 each.
For some of the Festool tools, you might need yo upgrade simply for convenience, since the Systainer case the tool comes with is too small to house optional Festool accessories you might want to purchase to get maximum use out of the tool.
Spending 3x the amount for the Festool version of a tool, then an extra $150+ on a different Systainer, is just irritating.
Also, while Festool did make the new Systainer cases somewhat compatible with the older classic series, the cases aren’t really fully compatible, giving the same benefits as owning all older cases or newer cases.
Wow, thanks for the detailed response!

If you need new MDF tops for your older version MFTs, a lot of cabinet shops have CNC routers now that could cut replacements for you.

Prices are crazy; and, some of the yearly price increases boggles reality. If I recall correctly one of the Domino assortments increases in price $70 last year... :shocking:
The Featool buyers seem to a certain extent to have the “Apple” brand loyalty, which can mean any criticism of Festool, no matter how legitimate, gets disparaged.

The older Festool tools used to be designed with maximum versatility in mind, so users could get the most use out of a limited selection of tools, using optional accessories.
Festool still manufactures some of those “versatile” tools, but they seem to be focusing on tools with limited specialty uses nowadays instead.

I don’t want to completely sh!t on Festool.
The tools they manufacture are routinely more versatile than similar tools from other manufacturers, and usually better made, though with exceptions for brands like Mafell, but some of the advantages that routinely got touted were sort of not a thing.

They've defiantly created some innovative tools, which I love them for, but the fanboy aspect is a bit much at time, thus the reason for this thread. It's typically the add ons that make the difference for me. As an example, I'm considering buying their oscillating multi tool, just because of the plunge base... Crazy, maybe but once in a very long time that could be a game changer.
 

dnschmidt

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My view of this is that anybody that buys a normal tool from Festool (drills, sanders and generic stuff like that) is crazy. Their specialty stuff like the Domino is where they win.
 
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