bpwoodworking
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I find their drills to be excellent. I have a more heavy duty Metabo (germany) stuff for drilling with a 1/2" shank or driving heavy lags, but the Festool stuff is really good.
Festool Proliferation
- Thread starter Southernbuild
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I don’t own any and don’t know anyone who does. I’ve never seen one in the wild on a job. Actually I’d never heard of the brand until about 2015 when I read a forum post about how great their miter saw is.
I’ve done some research into the brand over the years and come to the conclusion they make good stuff but they are also very proud of it (expensive).
Festool is a brand that’s built around modular design. Meaning the design is such that almost every tool can compliment the others. Heck even their cases are designed of the same thickness of their miter saw base so they can be used as long material supports. All this doesn’t really interest me because making full use of such a system would require replacement of virtually every tool I own and a total shop gut and remodel.
I think their major selling point is their dust collection features. At this point in time my shop dust collection consists of a broom and snow shovel. Buying into a dust free system would be cost prohibitive and require a lot of refitting.
Festool also uses a lot of proprietary accessories. If I remember correctly even their saws use an obscure blade size with proprietary arbor. What happens with this is you get locked into buying expensive consumables that most likely require mail order. That’s a major minus in my eyes. If I can’t get a replacement blade at the local hardware store I’m not likely going to be interested.
In short I think they make a great tool but the high initial buy in cost, and the fact I most likely wouldn’t make much use of their dust collection capability leaves me thinking I’ll likely never own any.
I’ve done some research into the brand over the years and come to the conclusion they make good stuff but they are also very proud of it (expensive).
Festool is a brand that’s built around modular design. Meaning the design is such that almost every tool can compliment the others. Heck even their cases are designed of the same thickness of their miter saw base so they can be used as long material supports. All this doesn’t really interest me because making full use of such a system would require replacement of virtually every tool I own and a total shop gut and remodel.
I think their major selling point is their dust collection features. At this point in time my shop dust collection consists of a broom and snow shovel. Buying into a dust free system would be cost prohibitive and require a lot of refitting.
Festool also uses a lot of proprietary accessories. If I remember correctly even their saws use an obscure blade size with proprietary arbor. What happens with this is you get locked into buying expensive consumables that most likely require mail order. That’s a major minus in my eyes. If I can’t get a replacement blade at the local hardware store I’m not likely going to be interested.
In short I think they make a great tool but the high initial buy in cost, and the fact I most likely wouldn’t make much use of their dust collection capability leaves me thinking I’ll likely never own any.
neophyte
Well-known member
Please don’t focus on the “modularity” of the Festool “system”.
The Festool system is only sort of “modular”, and Festool occasionally redesigns stuff and screws the system up, making various parts no longer modular.
I don’t know wheyher it was originally Festool representatives a couple decades or more ago who focused on selling the Festool system as “modular”, or whether some early buyers who bought parts of the system that were modular, and extended this focus to the entire brand, but it’s not really completely true concerning the brand.
Another issue, is that parts of the Festool system that would make it mire modular, are not sold in the USA, making the system less useful than in Europe.
For instance, there was a modular tool table, that allowed certain Festool tools to be table mounted, such as the circular saws, so the saws could be used as tablesaws.
This system was never sold in the USA.
I believe it was dimensionally compatible with the MFT system though.
Then there were the older MFT tables, which were left as orphans, when Festool redesigned the MFT to slightly different dimensions.
These new MFT tables matched up and could be combined with newer Festool offerings in North America, such as the modular router table, but if you had older components, you would basically have to upgrade most of your system, at a higher cost than buying a decent table saw.
Fesyool was also still selling the older MFT tables in the USA, after the newer system had been designed and introduced in Europe (at keadt from what I’ve seen in older catalogs), meaning Festool was selling a dead end modular system as modular, after it had bern dead ended for a new system.
As for blade sizes.
Festool generally uses “standard” European metric blade sizes, but Europe seems to have a wider variety of different “standard” blade sizes than the USA has for inch sizes.
The standard 160mm x 20mm arbor blade that is used in the most common Festool plunge saw, is a size that is somewhat easy to get, in quality versions, from places like Amazon,
It’s the other Festool saw blade sizes that are a bit more of an issue.
Festool blades are also expensive, which Festool used to mention could be offset by sharpening (the blades had a decent amount of carbide to allow sharpening), however sharpening the blades screws up the ptoximity of the blade to the saw track anti-splinter edge, requiring replacement or adjustment of that anti-splinter edge, which would then require a saw user to not switch out blades, since different blades would line up differently.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
The Festool sanders are amazing compared to the typical box store offerings. However, some of the Bosch sanders sound very comparable for a significant savings. And, then there's Mirka but they're at the Festool price point, so I try not to look.
In addition to the dust collection aspect, the Festool sanders have much less vibration compared to the other normal sanders I've used. Probably a big health benefit if you use one often.
They are mainstream enough that my local Blaine's Farm and Fleet carries some of their products. I have no idea how much they sell, but they are trying at least. Just as with every manufacturer, there will be some good and bad products, and they will lose sight of why customers would buy their products vs others.
But from what I understand their dust collection abilities are excellent, which could be very important for health reasons, as well as job site requirements when working in a finished residential or commercial area. I know as I get older my respiratory system becomes more and more sensitive to dust (not just saw dust), and I have made dust collection and PPE a bigger priority when working on things that create dust.
But from what I understand their dust collection abilities are excellent, which could be very important for health reasons, as well as job site requirements when working in a finished residential or commercial area. I know as I get older my respiratory system becomes more and more sensitive to dust (not just saw dust), and I have made dust collection and PPE a bigger priority when working on things that create dust.
I went down the Festool road starting in 2009 when I bought their tracksaw which was a game changer at the time. I later added their dust extractor, jigsaw, a couple of sanders and a Domino (smaller one), as well as their Kapex miter saw... At this point, the only Festool I would recommend would be the Domino. Bosch makes some excellent sanders as well as Mirka, and in fact out of all my sanders, the Mirka Ceros is my favorite (it looks like and acts like pneumatic sander). The Kapex leaked gear oil out of the box and Festool ended up replacing the entire gear box. Keep in mind, Festool screwed over a number of Kapex owners who saw the motors on their expensive miter saw ($1,000+) burn out with repair costs exceeding $500.
I just got turned off of the brand. Yearly price increases for no reason other than they could. The attitude of most owners, etc. My favorite brand at this point is Bosch and Lamello. When I needed a couple of more 'dust extractors' - I bought Bosch. I have the Lamello 'classic' biscuit joiner as well as their Zeta P2 and although expensive, no regrets
I just got turned off of the brand. Yearly price increases for no reason other than they could. The attitude of most owners, etc. My favorite brand at this point is Bosch and Lamello. When I needed a couple of more 'dust extractors' - I bought Bosch. I have the Lamello 'classic' biscuit joiner as well as their Zeta P2 and although expensive, no regrets
bpwoodworking
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WRT blades, Tenryu makes a replacement for the 55 tracksaw that’s very good.
As far as I’m aware Leitz manufacturers the OEM for festool and many other German manufacturers. The quality is good but the performance is mediocre in my opinion. I find even the PRC made Tenryu are much better in cut quality and reduction of strain on the saw.
Kapex ruined the festool fun for me as well, thankfully mine died while still under warranty. I sold it immediately after it returned to me. To their credit, they even shipped me a box to send it to them in, but it still bothered me that a 2yr old chop saw died so quickly.
As far as I’m aware Leitz manufacturers the OEM for festool and many other German manufacturers. The quality is good but the performance is mediocre in my opinion. I find even the PRC made Tenryu are much better in cut quality and reduction of strain on the saw.
Kapex ruined the festool fun for me as well, thankfully mine died while still under warranty. I sold it immediately after it returned to me. To their credit, they even shipped me a box to send it to them in, but it still bothered me that a 2yr old chop saw died so quickly.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Those yearly price increases are aggravating. And, how much the different items go up feels arbitrary.
I'm defiantly tempted to go more towards Bosch, but they kinda soured me in their slow releases to North America of new tools from their 10.8 / 12v line, which caused me to change to M12.
The Zeta P2, is an innovative game changing tool. Hopefully I can add one this year. A friend has one, and it defiantly lives up to the hype.
neophyte
Well-known member
The only major advantage for the yearly price increases for the customer, was that if you purchased a Festool item, and then decided yo sell it, you could recoup most of your money, or occasionally mire than you spent, on a little used tool.
Now that Festool has become way more mainstream, and more extensively sold, this advantage has largely disappeared, due to more used Festool tools on the market.
Now that Festool has become way more mainstream, and more extensively sold, this advantage has largely disappeared, due to more used Festool tools on the market.
jar944
Well-known member
I refuse to buy any more Festool tools. In sanders, I have their ETS 125, DTS400 and then I switched to Bosch with their 1/2 sheet sander (OS50VC) and their 1250devs (I hate sanding)
I have the 'Ceros' which has been discontinued. It looks and feels just like a pneumatic sander - (I don't think you can get any better than that) and the 'mesh' typer Mirka sandpaper, IMO, is way better than the Festool stuff
The cord plugs into a DC Transformer in the second pic
jar944
Well-known member
I understand the Ceros is NLA, the Deros is a similar form factor to surfprep and 3m.I refuse to buy any more Festool tools. In sanders, I have their ETS 125, DTS400 and then I switched to Bosch with their 1/2 sheet sander (OS50VC) and their 1250devs (I hate sanding)
I have the 'Ceros' which has been discontinued. It looks and feels just like a pneumatic sander - (I don't think you can get any better than that) and the 'mesh' typer Mirka sandpaper, IMO, is way better than the Festool stuff
The cord plugs into a DC Transformer in the second pic
Not a huge departure from the ec line
bcradio
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MovingAlong
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How widespread is Festool ownership / use?
Obviously they have some great tools, and I own several, but how many people are actually using them? According to Youtube / Fine Woodworking / Fine Homebuilding you would think that "everyone" has them. But, its just recently that I talked my cabinet guy into buying some. Otherwise I don't know of anyone running them.
I feel like it's the Snap-on equivalent for woodworking, where a lot of people want them just for the prestige factor. Not that bling is bad
So, what's your thoughts?
1) Global. From their website:
"We are a company devoted to our home region. Our roots lie at the foot of the Swabian Alb. To be precise: In Swabian Wendlingen on the Neckar. This is also the location of our main administrative office. Further production sites are located 20 kilometres away in Neidlingen, in Illertissen and in Česká Lípa in the north of the Czech Republic. Globally, we are present in 68 countries and have over 2700 employees. We operate our own subsidiaries in 25 countries – our export quota is 76 percent. Together with the Tanos brand, Festool is a brand of TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co.KG."
2) They make a quality product and they know how to market through influencers. I don't have any need for them (product or influencers) but obviously they serve a market...
neophyte
Well-known member
Yes, usually.
Lower center of gravity for better control.
neophyte
Well-known member
I think one of the Festool sanders I have has a serial number in the 4000 range.
I have no clue how Festool divides their serial numbers, but the tool would have been out for multiple years before I purchased it.
This was before Festool was somewhat more widely available thru local dealers when the sander was purchased.
Still, a serial number in the 4000 range doesn’t seem like huge production numbers and sales.
And it has that 'lever' actuator on top - which can be set to variable of fixed speed so when you press down with the palm of your hand it activates it
I saw that 3m sander on Amazon a month or two ago. The introductory price was around $300, which was tempting, but I have enough sanders for now
rancherbill
Well-known member
If you're a finish carpenter you buy Festool.How widespread is Festool ownership / use?
Obviously they have some great tools, and I own several, but how many people are actually using them? According to Youtube / Fine Woodworking / Fine Homebuilding you would think that "everyone" has them. But, its just recently that I talked my cabinet guy into buying some. Otherwise I don't know of anyone running them.
I feel like it's the Snap-on equivalent for woodworking, where a lot of people want them just for the prestige factor. Not that bling is bad
So, what's your thoughts?
I have seen all the videos you are talking about. I currently have a ton of woodworking stuff. I would have never bought them had I known about Festool. For the home shop and for site woodworking Festool can't be beat. I am planning on selling my table saw and buying a track saw. I would also like one of their HEPA vacs and a sander.
I would vehemently disagree
I probably have close to $5k in Festool woodworking tools. Once upon time, they had a leg up when it comes to the track saw and dust collection - but not anymore. IMO the only Festools that I would recommend are things that no one else currently makes - like the Domino.
But if you want 'bragging rights'... by all means go ahead. Festool owners are kind of like Tesla owners - if you say anything at all that someone deems as derogatory, stand by.
Example, after spending $1,100 on their Kapex miter saw, I dared to place a 'straight edge' across the table to see if it was flat (it wasn't, the center table was higher than two wings). Of course the Fesfools pounced when I asked a question about it. I mean when you spend that kind of money on something I would actually expect the 'quality' to match the price.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
They don't need influencers to sell their product, that is just hilarious. If the source of your information is YouTube, you need to look around. The main consumers of their products for years have been wood working professionals, cabinet builders, finish carpenters, etc.
It's the influencers today that are riding the coattails of those craftsmen.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You have a great point. The Kapex has been a prime example of how to tarnish a brand. Many owners have been burned and Festool did not handle it well. Their tools are great at dust collection, an area most other tools are mediocre at. And you are correct, the owners are like Tesla owners, just nowhere near as obnoxious
I'm guilty as charged!
dnschmidt
Well-known member
That sander is still available from the original manufacturer which is AirVantage Tools. Give David a call at AirVantage and he'll take care of you. Tell him that Dennis Schmidt sent you. They make their electric sanders in two variations. One has the power supply separate, which is what I prefer from the balance point of view and one with the power supply build into the sander which I like less as the tool isn't as well balanced as the one with the separate power supply which feels and handles exactly like an air sander. AirVantage makes all of SurfPro's tools as well along with many other private label companies.I refuse to buy any more Festool tools. In sanders, I have their ETS 125, DTS400 and then I switched to Bosch with their 1/2 sheet sander (OS50VC) and their 1250devs (I hate sanding)
I have the 'Ceros' which has been discontinued. It looks and feels just like a pneumatic sander - (I don't think you can get any better than that) and the 'mesh' typer Mirka sandpaper, IMO, is way better than the Festool stuff
The cord plugs into a DC Transformer in the second pic
jar944
Well-known member
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Tracksaws are great, but they complement each other more than replacing each other... I'd consider holding on to the tablesaw, especially for general woodworking. Tracksaws excel more on the sheet good spectrum, not so much on small pieces.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Maybe this is more the point I was trying to get at. It feels like maybe people buy their tools, just because of the brand prestige. Even when their tool isn't the best choice for your application..
I really question why they are expanding their selection in the basic tool catagories that other companies already provide a great product. Buying those items feels....
On the plus side, they recently released a tracksaw with a scoring saw built in. That's the kind of game changing innovation I love, and probably should buy.
I'm still confused about their new tablesaw though....
neophyte
Well-known member
Festool literally has “influencers” at their annual tool announcement parties, or whatever the events are.
The Festool Owners Group Forum even had at least one thread were members mentioned it, and made derogatory comments about the fact.
neophyte
Well-known member
Don’t sell your tablesaw.
A tablesaw and a travksaw are not used for the same jobs.
Both a tablsaw and a tracksaw can be used to break down large sheet hoods, although the tracksaw. Has advantages in that regard.
A tracksaw cannot really be peactically used for a lot of joint cuts that can be done on a tablsaw, or for cutting small pieces of wood, or a bunch of other specialty tasks.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
What sissies. Want to break down plywood. Striebig panel saw or Altendorf slider. Or. if you're really flushed, get a Martin.
Agreed. Small cross cuts and dadoes are things a track saw can’t really do. Not to mention cutting thicker wood and repeatability using a stop.
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manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Track saw and a router attachment make dadoes a breeze. Easier and quicker than setting up a dado stack in a table saw. Small cross cuts are doable with a MFT table or a short tract and right angle attachment. not ideal, but doable.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
If I had more space, I'd definantly look hard at buying a panel saw. They're cheaper than I would have thought. Just checked prices again, theyve gone up a lot in the last 10 years, but what else is new.
jar944
Well-known member
Obviously a Striebig for your panels and a Martin as your joinery saw.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Where I see the tablesaw shine is easy repeatability of cuts. And, cutting small, and especally narrow work pieces. If the work piece isn't 7 or so inches wide, the MFT struggles to properly secure it.
bpwoodworking
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Wait, just one tablesaw? 
The fellow who I bought the Martin shaper from had two Martin table saws, a Wadkin and an old powermatic.
The fellow who I bought the Martin shaper from had two Martin table saws, a Wadkin and an old powermatic.
OP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
I'm surprised a woodworking tool question has got this much traffic on a mainly mechanical / automotive forum!
Awesome. Thanks Guys!
Awesome. Thanks Guys!
jar944
Well-known member
Garages house more than carsI'm surprised a woodworking tool question has got this much traffic on a mainly mechanical / automotive forum!
Awesome. Thanks Guys!
neophyte
Well-known member
A bunch of people on the Forum own Festool tools.I'm surprised a woodworking tool question has got this much traffic on a mainly mechanical / automotive forum!
Awesome. Thanks Guys!
I probably crapped on the brand more than I should have.
I would definitely consider Festool if I needed a tool in a category they manufactured one in, I just think they get more hype for for certain things than they really should.
Festool also does, or at least used to, manufacture tools for polishing and sanding finishes that are appropriate for automotive use, although they’ve cut back on that product line in the past decade or do, and a bunch of the tools were only sold in Europe.