Festool question

[James E]

My garage is up and I'm going to build my own cabinets. Because of the sheer number of cuts I'll be doing on sheets of plywood, I'll either need to buckle down and buy a nice table saw or a circular saw guide system.

Problem with a table saw is I'd use it for this project and then it would just take up alot of space so I'm probably going to get some nice guides instead.

Specifically, has anybody used the Festool circular saw and guides and how do you like them?

 

[acer66]

My garage is up and I'm going to build my own cabinets. Because of the sheer number of cuts I'll be doing on sheets of plywood, I'll either need to buckle down and buy a nice table saw or a circular saw guide system.

Problem with a table saw is I'd use it for this project and then it would just take up alot of space so I'm probably going to get some nice guides instead.

Specifically, has anybody used the Festool circular saw and guides and how do you like them?

I only used that setup a couple of times plus a vacuum and it really impressive.
But you pay for it, there are alternatives which are cheaper but nothing really comes close especially when you use also their vacuum.
If just read a test, I think it was FineHomebuilding, about circular saws with rails and Festool came out on top, which they should looking at how much they charge.
I think they just updated their rail system which I did not use.

I hope this helps.

 

[egdede]

check out Eurekazone: http://www.eurekazone.com/

 

[kb2tha]

I have that set-up and it is great. I still find myself using the table saw quite frequently, but the Festool was fantastic when I last used it on some cabinetwork at a stove shop. I also have the rotex sander, their jigsaw and router as well. It was just like Christmas all over again the day that my order arrived. Somewhat pricey but is does as advertised. You won't be disappointed. The vacuum is good too.

 

[danski0224]

I have the Festool saw system, and there are things that I get out the tablesaw for.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

It is as accurate as your measurements, and capable of making top quality cabinet cuts.

 

[MOPARINMYCAR]

I have made a lot of cabinets from board material and if you want to make yourself the cabinets for you shop don't think that buying a festool will make it than much easier because it won't believe me. the feestools do have good feedback but like all tools you have to use them for a while to get familiar with the setup proceedure which normally means making a few mistakes along the way. What I would recommend if you already own a skill saw that you are familiar with go and buy a good 72 tooth finishing blade and make yourself a crosscut sled this will only take you about 1 hour from start to finish and will give you a very easy to use and accurate means to cut your sheet materials. Just remember when you are about to make loads of cuts make sure that you saw is in good tune with the blade set to 90 degrees to the base this will ensure you will have materials cut accurately which will aid the assembly of your cabinets. if you do a google search on cross cut sled I'm sure you will find what Im talking about. Hope this helps

 

[7echo]

There are some good threads on track saws in the forums at Journal of Light Construction.

 

[Stephenw]

I think that full 4 x 8 panels are hard to handle on a tablesaw. I screw 2x4s onto saw horses and use a circular saw with a guide. I cut right through the sheet and into the top of the 2x4s. With a homemade guide, you don't have to calculate where the cut will be in relation to the edge of the guide. Check this page...

http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/CuttingSheetGoods/CuttingSheetGoods.html

 

[James E]

Thanks for all of the input, keep 'em coming.

 

[James E]

So while I was investigating rail systems, I saw that DeWalt has one that looks very similar to the Festool. I found it on their website but no one carries it. Maybe it's so new it's not even out yet?

 

[danski0224]

If you do buy the Festool, get the bigger one.

 

[demographic]

I don't own the Festool but have borrowed someone else's with the guide system.
It is by far the best circular ripsaw I have ever used and I wish I could afford one.

I have heard that De-Walt has produced something like it but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet and I have also seen the Mafell saw with guide system at a trade show recently but again not had the chance to use one.

 

[acer66]

So while I was investigating rail systems, I saw that DeWalt has one that looks very similar to the Festool. I found it on their website but no one carries it. Maybe it's so new it's not even out yet?

This one ?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001J69QAO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[James E]

More good info. In addition to the DeWalt, Makita makes one, too. Both are slightly less expensive than the Festool and the Makita is compatible with the Festool guides. This decision is getting more difficult by the day.

 

[KrisKustomPaint]

I'm with Stephenw with the homemade version. I mean the way you explained it, it would be more or less a one time use deal. A 2x4 a scrap of plywood and a couple of screws and presto...saw guide.

 

[demographic]

More good info. In addition to the DeWalt, Makita makes one, too. Both are slightly less expensive than the Festool and the Makita is compatible with the Festool guides. This decision is getting more difficult by the day.

The Mafell one is also comparable with the Festool guides.
Not sure if they sell them in the US though.

 

[boiler7904]

I bought the DeWalt tracksaw and two 59" tracks this fall. I only got to use it a little this year while building shelving for a coat closet but I like everything about it. It will get a workout this spring when I build cabinets for our master bedroom walk-in closet. I would definitely suggest the track clamps. Even though they say the friction strips should hold it in place, it slid around too much for my liking. Dust collection through my Oneida Dust Deputy and Ridgid 14 gallon shop vac is pretty good but not quite what Festool offers with their system.

 

[MoonRise]

Are you going to build just a bunch of cabinets, or are you going to also do other woorkworking as well? A tablesaw is often a centerpiece tool and 'workhorse' for woodworking. Not necessarily the 'only' way to do things, but very-very-very-very useful for lots of different machining operations.

Full sheets of sheet good certainly can be awkward to maneauver through a table saw, which is kind of why the various track or circular saw sleds can be handy and useful.

Aww, hell, just go for the full-up cabinet saw with outfeed table.

http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=21240

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Heavy-Duty-Cabinet-Table-Saw-With-Riving-Knife/G0651

http://www.jetwilton.com/us/manufacturing/en/product.html?node=4652&product=361451

If you are not going to be doing woodworking, then why are you even going to make your own cabinets?

Seriously, if you do not want to be doing a bunch of woodworking, then why would you go and build your own cabinets?

There are (as usual) several approaches to building cabinets. Biscuits, cleats, dados, grooves, rabbets, raised panels, rip cuts, crosscuts, pocket screws, dovetails, carcass construction, drawer construction, drawer slides/glides, rail and stile construction, clamps (always LOTS of clamps), table saw, radial-arm saw, power miter saw, sliding miter saw, circular saw with a guide-rail system, dust collection, router(s), router table, router bits, saw blades for the various saws, etc, etc, etc. Not all those are always needed and there is at least some overlap in machine capabilities and techniques, etc, etc, etc.

Not rocket science or brain surgery, but decent cabinets are not as simple as just hack some sheet goods to rough size and slap them together with 6D nails either.

Dewalt tracksaw at WoodCraft with corded saw (other variants listed as well) and 102" track:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...y-612-Corded-TrackSaw-Kit-with-102-Track.aspx

 

[blue dog]

The system you are referring to works well but for building a bunch of cabinets and making a ton of cuts a table saw will be much faster. I have a makita 10" table saw and the rousseau stand and run out table, they work great, set up in 1 minute and 1 man can run full sheets threw it no problem. The beauty is that it all breaks down and does not take up that much space. We have been using this system on job sites for 15 years.
good luck.

http://www.rousseauco.com/

 

[EdT]

I have built a couple of kitchens worth of cabinets for my own houses, but I certainly don't do it for a living. Assuming you are planning "standard" plywood boxes with face frames one of the toughest jobs is breaking down the sheet goods into manageable sizes. A 4x8 sheet of 3/4" PW is pretty heavy and MDF is even heavier. I've had good luck getting the big box stores to break the sheets to rough size on their panel saw. Even just splitting it the long way makes everything easier to manage. You will have to trim to final size of course and that is easiest on a table saw as is a lot of the other stuff you'll end up doing. I have found pocket screws for face frames to be a very good system. Easy to do and plenty strong enough. As far as doors and drawer fronts go, I find buying them from a company that specializes in just that is a real bargain compared to making your own. Much faster to. I have also used a piece of 2" aluminum angle with clamps for a guide system and, while more cumbersome to set up than the fancier systems, it works fine for me. Unless you're doing miles of cabinets, the number of cuts on sheetgoods is really not so many and the amortization of a $1000 cutting system is not so good; especially if you're not planning to do it again.

 

[Bigpigdave]

I have used the smaller Festool and the Dewalt, both are top notch tools and will do what you want. If you are only going to build a small number of cabinets I would suggest you look at a Kreg pocket hole tool. It makes for easy joinery. One of the advantages of a table saw over a track saw is the ease of making repetitive cuts of the same dimension (really important for cabinet building). Don't overlook a used contractor table saw. Use it for this project and re-sale.
Good luck, Dave

 

[mpire]

See, if you are doing garage cabinets...

I think you should get some clamps and a straight edge.

Then cut the pieces with a circular saw....

As my father in law says..

Caulk and paint will make it what it aint!

 

[c_mccann]

Buy an old, working contractors saw, use it and sell it when u are done. You'll break even. Nothing can replace a big saw when cutting sheet.

 

[shoot summ]

Don't overlook the fact that most large home centers will cut you plywood for you. They aren't always exact on the measurements but if you spiff them a little sometimes they will get it spot on.

Other than that I would(and have) used a table saw to build many cabinets.

To build them right you should dado the shelves, or at least the tops, bottoms, and backs.

 

[trythis]

I have used the festool circular saw and will say they are worth it if you make money with them. Unless you are sitting on extra cash, get a regular old circular saw and get used to it. Toss it in your cabinets when your done if it survives that long. If your going to use a table saw for cutting plywood, you are going to need several tables to feed and catch the materials as well.

How big is your space?

 

[James E]

My rationale for building is that the garage is oddly sized and laid out. I have 11' ceilings on one side and a cathedral ceiling on the other. Between windows and plumbing, there are alot of weird considerations as for how the cabinets will be placed. I want them to look custom--not like I got them on sale and pieced together pieces that didn't fit the space.

No standard-sized cabinets will work so to get exactly what I want, it would have to be custom-made and I refuse to pay for that when I can buy some cool tools and do it myself. I use a circular saw all the time but my need for a table saw is pretty much limited to these cabinets so that's why I'm leaning away from that option. I don't mind spending alot of money on a really nice circular saw and a couple guides because I will use them alot, whereas a table saw will sit and take up space after I use it for this project.

I fully understand that a nice table saw would be the most appropriate tool for this job, but with the number of large pieces of wood that I'll be dealing with, I'd need a serious table saw and some additional table extensions. Then I'd have to mess with selling it when I was done.

I have been scanning the local Craigslist and if I finda table saw that looks good, I would go ahead and get it. Unfortunately, 99% of the saws are $200 Home Depot specials that are made of plastic, aren't suitable for making dadoes and won't work for 8' sheets.

With a guide system, the few dadoes I want to do can be done with a router and the rest of the cuts can be made with the circular saw.

 

[DB2]

I have a Festool TS55 track saw with 3 guide rails (32", 55", 75") and have built numerous kitchen cabinets onsite (such as the island in the photo below) with it and a small (Festool...) router. I even built a small jig using the 32" rail for crosscuts (basically knocked off their "multi-function table" set-up). Another great feature of the TS55 is that the dust collection is nearly 100% when mated to a decent shop vac.

The quality of the Festool products is unmatched, in my opinion. There are always guys out there who will argue that if you purchase the most expensive brand of a tool available you are getting ripped off...but that is not the case with the Festool tracksaw. A generic "Skil Saw", even with some sort of rail arrangement, is simply not in the same league.

I also have a 52" 3 hp Unisaw in the shop, and even with the Unisaw, I still use the TS55 for breaking down sheet goods. The cuts it makes in plywood are indistinguishable in both finish and accuracy from cuts made on the Unisaw. If you only have an occasional project that requires cutting sheet goods, I would definitely pick up a TS55 in lieu of a table saw.

If you aren't experienced with cutting sheet goods, a TS55 is definitely much safer than trying to cut large sheets with a contractor saw.

 

[redman43]

+1 for homemade guides. Just use some 1/4 hardboard with some kind of "block" material (alum/steel angle, 1x lumber, etc) attached to the hardboard along the length and then run your circular saw along the "block" cutting off the excess. You now have a setup where you only need to align that cut edge against where you want the cut and you're good. Perfect every time. Make sure you have a good blade that is setup square, and any decent circular saw will work fine. Shouldn't be more than $10 for the guide. There really is no need for a extruded aluminum guide from Festool/Dewalt/Makita/etc for several hundred dollars unless, as someone else mentioned, you're making money with it.

By the way, you can also use this idea with a router and cut perfect dadoes.

 

[Groovy]

I have the 50" "all in one" and the 90" I use all the time they are great as long as you measure both sides 4 and a quarter from your cut line to your saw blade you'll see what i'm talking about when you get one, and you should, basically make sure it is square. Best $ you can invest think about screwing up a nice sheet of ply or two and its paid for.
I use my 10" table saw allot too it has a router table built into it and I also use a compound miter saw as a go to and there isn't anything I can't build especially with the jigs I have for that table saw but to answer I use these guides on almost every project and you will and do almost as well with good blades as a table saw:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25134&filter=circular saw guides

Rockler is great the folks are very helpful and great customer service.

 

[danski0224]

I fully understand that a nice table saw would be the most appropriate tool for this job, but with the number of large pieces of wood that I'll be dealing with, I'd need a serious table saw and some additional table extensions. Then I'd have to mess with selling it when I was done.

I have been scanning the local Craigslist and if I finda table saw that looks good, I would go ahead and get it. Unfortunately, 99% of the saws are $200 Home Depot specials that are made of plastic, aren't suitable for making dadoes and won't work for 8' sheets.

With a guide system, the few dadoes I want to do can be done with a router and the rest of the cuts can be made with the circular saw.

You can get a real nice DeWalt saw and a free folding and rolling stand for less than $600. This one will do dadoes.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014GD3HQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have this one, and I bought the stand above for $200.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HXT2N6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Infeed and outfeed tables? Make something simple.

The saw might be less yet at one of the CPO places.

 

[gbmc9]

Try searching the internet for sawboard. It is a home made guide that works quite well.

 

[Steevo]

The poor mans version of the Festool and the TrackSaw is the Bora Wide Track Clamp Edge and their saw guide that rides in the edge track.
About $180 for the set (with 100" guide).

 

[James E]

Nice cabinets, DB2.

 

[MN4x4]

I resurrected this thread to say that I recently bought a Festool track saw and am AMAZED at what it will do. I also have a nice cabinetmakers table saw, but the cuts from it are nowhere as clean as the cuts from the Festool. And breaking down panels couldn't be easier.

On the other hand, cutting face frame parts (stiles and rails) is MUCH easier on the table saw, due to the ability to set the fence once and 'forget it'.

Another plus for the Festool stuff is that it REALLY holds its value. You could buy what you want, use it for a year, and sell it for about 90% of what you paid for it!

Just my 2¢ worth...

 

[transplant_wi]

I have built a bunch of cabinets and agree that breaking-down sheet goods is a PITA on a table saw. I find that I end-up re-cutting to clean-up an edge, which wastes both time and material. Crosscutting is also a pain on the TS for large pieces.

You are ahead of me on having to make this decision, but it is one I am mulling over for the future for my (very) small business making specialty cabinets. I recently bought several Festool items and have been delighted with them all. Most recently their small cordless drill (CXS), which happily drives 3" screws into pine.

Please let us know what you decide, and how it works out for you.

 

[James E]

Thanks for bringing this back up. I wound up buying the Festool saw, guides and also the work table, which has a hinged arm for a guide which is great for making 90 degree cuts and repeating cuts.

I didn't make my own cabinets yet but now at least I can. I have used the saw and set-up many times for other projects and it's been really easy to use and versatile.

 

[wnstwolf]

The cost vs. use is a tough one. Manhandeling full sheets of mateial is difficult and unsafe if you do not have the set up for the table saw. I ended up using a clamp style saw guide and a good circ saw with quality blade to rough cut my panls. Then did final cuts on table saw or used router. In the end my results were great and as these were on expensive cabinet grade white oak plywood I did not have the ability to screw up too much.

 

[Jackfre]

I'm a hobbyist in the woodworking world, but I bought the TS55 and the vacuum a few years back. For the use it got I was way upside down on the cost/benefit. That is, until we did the new hardwood floors in the re-model of the house. We have a 40x72" trap door right at the hallway/kitchen/DR/LR junction and it could not be eliminated without abandoning the space, which I was unwilling to do. The floor guy ran the white oak flooring right over the door so the floor "flowed" visually right over it. We then had to make the cuts length wise make the door. Two of the 48" tracks together, exceedingly careful measuring, and a lot of sweating it out. I have to say that the saw and system paid for themselves in that one cut.

I also use it to successfully brake down sheet goods. It is expensive and there are always other ways to do something, but I'm really happy with the system.

 

[kaffine]

I have the larger TS75 track saw wish I had gotten the smaller TS55 instead. I just attended a training class offered by Festool. I now have a long list of other tools that I want to buy. I have gone to a few of their training classes they are nice as they show you the little tricks on how to get the most out of the tools.

It will be some time before I start building cabinets but when I do I want the LR32 system they have. For drilling the holes for the hinges and shelf pins.