Figgering out Rectangular Tubing ID & OD

[tig]

Figgering out Rectangular Tubing ID & OD - Plasma Cutting Tray

Ok, this is probably simple, but my brain is making it complicated.

I want to fabricate a slide-in plasma cutting tray for my welding table.

I COULD use the 2x2" ID trailer hitch receivers I have and 2" (1/4" thick) tubing I have.

But that is too heavy an bulky for what I want.

Instead I want some rectangular tubing 1 to 1.5" wide and 2 to 2.5" high as the receiver.

Then I want to find some tubing that will just fit the ID of that stuff so it can slide in/out.

I think I need something around 1/8" to 0.188" thick. It's only going to support the weight of a ~30" by 30" plasma cutting tray (with 1.5x1/8" slats).

How does one figger out what to order from McMaster-carr for this stuff? I've been trying different combinations and my head hurts.

Thanks.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Talk to the guys at METAL SUPERMERKET. They know their stuff and can make good recommendations.

 

[bri_man57]

So I just made some camper brackets for my pickup that uses the same idea. I went with 2x2 for the reciever, and 1.5x1.5 for the portion that slides in. Now, even though they offer 2x2 in .24 wall( which would theoretically would be 1.520 ish inner dimension) , my understanding is the weld bead on the inside as well as tolerancing would not let the 1.5 slide in. So, I went with the 2x2 with .188 wall to have clearance. It will work great for me but not sure how close you were hoping the clearance would be.

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[tig]

So I just made some camper brackets for my pickup that uses the same idea. I went with 2x2 for the reciever, and 1.5x1.5 for the portion that slides in. Now, even though they offer 2x2 in .24 wall( which would theoretically would be 1.520 ish inner dimension) , my understanding is the weld bead on the inside as well as tolerancing would not let the 1.5 slide in. So, I went with the 2x2 with .188 wall to have clearance. It will work great for me but not sure how close you were hoping the clearance would be.

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Nice.

I am now considering some 1 1/4" hitch receivers so I don't have to deal with the inner weld. I saw a YT video recently where a guy showed how to remove the inner weld which was quite cool, but time == money (!).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GN1F6S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

So, now I'm thinking instead of rectangles, I'l be square. OD is 2x2". ID of outer is 1 1/4" and getting 1 1/4x0.188" tubing is: https://www.mcmaster.com/square-tub...-4/outside-height~1-1-4/wall-thickness~0-188/

Here's the concept

 

[theoldwizard1]

Almost all tubing, square, rectangular or round has weld spatter on the inside that will prevent another tube from sliding in. No easy way to get that out.

(Round DOM I believe is the exception. $$$)

 

[tig]

I think this is the plan.

Two 6" long 1 1/4" (ID) receiver hitches from Amazon.

A bunch of 1 1/4" tubing from McMaster-Carr.

And a ton of 1" by 1/8" for the 24" long slats.

Although I'm not sure how to cut the slots for the slats...

 

[harley jim]

Re: Figgering out Rectangular Tubing ID & OD

I was shop Forman at a welding shop for years. I probably had 4 or 5 customers a week ask this question and the problem is as was stated earlier the weld seam inside. I found this you tube video that shows how to fix the problem.

If you buy 2"x 1/4" wall square tube it will be 1.5" I'd so 1.5 tube will fit snug, I have smoothed over all four sides with an 80 grit disc to relieve the fit a bit. It will work nice.

I know a gentleman that ground a notch along the leinght in his 1.5" tubing that allowed the weld seam in his 2" tubing to pass through the notch, that worked well also.
Hope this helps.


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[Kaizen]

A future problem that I ran into is any welding or cutting will get on the sliders and stop it from sliding in. Tried with dom tube and realized I needed some kind of a wheeled control rather then a receiver.
Picture skateboard wheels mounted and the tube slides between a few sets of wheels.


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[hawkeye2]

Have you considered a fold down table like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQSSZ8P/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Seems like this would address most the issues identified above. Plus you don’t have to find a place to store the cutting table.

 

[Graham08]

If you could use square tube, there is a specialty product made for telescoping applications. Telespar is one trade name for it. It's 12 gauge (0.105") wall in the larger sizes and the weld seam is in the corner instead of on one side. Here is a link to McMaster-Carr with some example sizes.

https://www.mcmaster.com/telescoping-tube-structural-framing

It's a bit on the expensive side, but generally you use shorter lengths for the female side of a telescoping application. Standard size tube slides right into it (1/4" smaller square for the larger sizes).

 

[joe49]

What are you going to do about the clearance caused sag? I assume from the drawing that the top of your tray and table to be in plane.

 

[Bodj Built]

So I just made some camper brackets for my pickup that uses the same idea. I went with 2x2 for the reciever, and 1.5x1.5 for the portion that slides in. Now, even though they offer 2x2 in .24 wall( which would theoretically would be 1.520 ish inner dimension) , my understanding is the weld bead on the inside as well as tolerancing would not let the 1.5 slide in. So, I went with the 2x2 with .188 wall to have clearance. It will work great for me but not sure how close you were hoping the clearance would be.

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Hey Brian! Long time no see, hah. I was just thinking about you over the weekend. We were hitting the road jump in Cal City and reminded me of when we were jumping it in your Ranger.

Check out fireball tool's youtube channel. He talks about how to remove the weld seam if you want a tighter fit. I'll see if I can find the video

 

[csp]

One doesn't order dimensional steel from MSC Direct.

 

[tig]

Have you considered a fold down table like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQSSZ8P/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Seems like this would address most the issues identified above. Plus you don’t have to find a place to store the cutting table.

Yes, but in my case, that face of the welding table has drawers:



(Old pic; pre-recent mods. Ignore the 2" hitch receivers.)

I want to be able to store this plasma shelf on the right side.

If you could use square tube, there is a specialty product made for telescoping applications. Telespar is one trade name for it. It's 12 gauge (0.105") wall in the larger sizes and the weld seam is in the corner instead of on one side. Here is a link to McMaster-Carr with some example sizes.

[url]https://www.mcmaster.com/telescoping-tube-structural-framing

It's a bit on the expensive side, but generally you use shorter lengths for the female side of a telescoping application. Standard size tube slides right into it (1/4" smaller square for the larger sizes).

Oooh. Intrigued. This may be the route! Thanks.

What are you going to do about the clearance caused sag? I assume from the drawing that the top of your tray and table to be in plane.

Good question. I was going to fabricate the mounts after the tray was assembled to ensure it sits correctly. I was also going to install "set screws" into the receivers. Not sure this will all work and would appreciate more ideas. It may be the Telespar material mentioned above has tighter tolerances.

 

[LXCam]

What graham said, get some nesting tube.

 

[tig]

New design based on what graham said.





Except, I think I'm going to make it only 18" deep instead of 24'.

 

[bri_man57]

Hey Brian! Long time no see, hah. I was just thinking about you over the weekend. We were hitting the road jump in Cal City and reminded me of when we were jumping it in your Ranger.



Check out fireball tool's youtube channel. He talks about how to remove the weld seam if you want a tighter fit. I'll see if I can find the video

Ha ha ya I saw you having fun out there, definitely miss the desert but it's nice taking a step back for a while!!

To the topic at hand, I think using some trailer reciever tubing or the other route meant for telescoping would be the way I would go, if I was searching for a tight fit.

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[Graham08]

New design based on what graham said.

Cool! I'm glad to be of assistance. That's a sweet looking welding table with the slats.

Sometimes your local steel supplier will have Telespar on hand, sometimes you'll get a blank stare when you ask for it. I learned about it from my dad who has used the stuff for years.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I thought everyone online had seen this video. Enjoy:

 

[tig]

I thought everyone online had seen this video. Enjoy:

This was the vid I referred to above. So cool.

 

[tig]

Cool! I'm glad to be of assistance. That's a sweet looking welding table with the slats.

Sometimes your local steel supplier will have Telespar on hand, sometimes you'll get a blank stare when you ask for it. I learned about it from my dad who has used the stuff for years.

So far I've succeeded in never visiting my local steel supplier.

McMaster-Carr FTW!

 

[bri_man57]

I thought everyone online had seen this video. Enjoy:

Very cool vid!

So far I've succeeded in never visiting my local steel supplier.

McMaster-Carr FTW!

I feel like metal is much more expensive on mcmaster. Is that not what you are finding?


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[Yankeefarmer]

Steel is more expensive at McMaster on a per foot basis, but if I only need a small length, it is more economic to buy from them than my local supplier, because the local place has a minimum purchase of 10 feet. McMaster also seems to be more reasonable on shipping than places like Online Metals or Speedy Metals.

 

[tig]

Steel is more expensive at McMaster on a per foot basis, but if I only need a small length, it is more economic to buy from them than my local supplier, because the local place has a minimum purchase of 10 feet. McMaster also seems to be more reasonable on shipping than places like Online Metals or Speedy Metals.

Time is money.

My nearest steel place is ~30 min away, each way. They are only open during business hours.

I can order on McMaster-Carr at 8pm and everything is on my doorstep at 10am the next morning.

Obviously not for everyone, but it works great for me.

 

[Monza Harry]

Tig, for my never never [I'm Never, Ever going to get it finished I swear the Gods are against it] welding table, I ordered from my local supplier 2 1/2" X 2 1/2", 0.234" wall "flash removed" as it is referred to here, for my "Receivers"
to fit my planned 2" X 2" platforms. This will leave a total of ~0.030" clearance for a slip fit and dimensional discrepancies. It may also be available in other sizes. Just another "keyword" to add to your searches. Harry

 

[MBeaty]

Search on McMaster Carr for "Telescoping Weld-Together Rails.

https://www.mcmaster.com/weld-together-framing/telescoping-weld-together-rails/?SrchEntryWebPart_InpBox=telespar+tubing

They have a selection of tubing both round and square sized to slide in each other. I have used on projects before with good results. It is essentially a high quality square steel tube with the welds seam on the corners rather than the flats, so there is no internal obstruction.

A brand name for this product is Telespar tubing, but I was never able to find it at a supplier, so resorted to McMaster Carr.

 

[tarbellb]

Ive had success using DOM tubing and plastic collars

DOM is definitely higher dollar, but the tolerances are much tighter plus the obvious drawn over aspect (seamless).

Found the plastic collars that fit inside making up the gap and removing the chance of binding on McMaster.

 

[tig]

I got some 2 1/4" and 2" telespar from McMaster. Way too big for this application.

So I got some 1" and 3/4" to try. They lie about it working because both the 1" and the 3/4" are 0.08" thick, not 0.125, thus the 3/4" is way too small and doesn't fight tightly. Plus the 1" they sent me has an internal seam. WTF? I've contacted customer support and we'll see what they say.

@tarbellb, I'm curious about the plastic collars you found. Can you share where you found them?

Much progress has been made on the business-end of this project. I'm now stalled waiting to figure out the attachment solution.

 

[hilld]

This might help in figuring out the tubing sizes.

Here is an example for Aluminum: https://alcobrametals.com/telescopic-tubing/aluminum-6005a-t6-telescoping-square-tubing-110/

And of course the overall category: https://alcobrametals.com/telescopic-tubing/

 

[RPH]

Almost all tubing, square, rectangular or round has weld spatter on the inside that will prevent another tube from sliding in. No easy way to get that out.

(Round DOM I believe is the exception. $$$)

Internally scarfed tubing is available, it does cost more. Watched miles of it being manufactured in all kinds of sizes.

 

[tig]

I've decided I'm going to fabricate the outer stuff myself. I watched some YouTube videos. ;-)

 

[tarbellb]

McMaster plastic collars- ie Flanged Sleeve Bearing

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/127/1317
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/127/1315/

 

[tig]

I finally finished the plasma cutting extension for the welding table today. And I was able to test it out.

I love it when a plan comes together!