File maintence

[ray h]

Back in the 70-80's new in the box files could be bought cheap at car shows etc. I would wrap them with VPI paper to protect from rust and from hitting each other. Well I miss placed my stash and just found them 2 days ago. Some didn't fair too well even with the VPI paper, most are dark colored along with light rust . I put 12-15 in Evaporust. I just took them out today, they are dark color but appears the rust deposits are gone. I put in another 25 or so to soak. My question is should I soak them in the strong vinegar solution after the Evaporust, will that remove the dark color. I was going to store them after cleaning in ATF oil until I need them. What would you all suggest? A plus side , I found a big bag of Lutz handles. Interesting the ferrules didn't rust on them, yet the files did ?? Thanks

 

[WhoWhatNow]

I would skip the Evaporust and go straight to the vinegar. That is what I do when I get a batch of rusty files. Works great.

 

[seber]

The vinegar will make them even more black. It will also sharpen them slightly. The black color should come off with a wire brush. Sometimes even a toothbrush will remove it. Personally, I like to leave it and add a light coat of oil. It helps with rust prevention.

 

[jagwinn]

I use vinegar for rust on files (tools, fasteners). When done soaking, clean with soft brush and then I load the teeth with some really soft wood I have and store them in a dry place. I cannot say what the wood is...found it in the garage from 1970's...red in color and very soft; easy to form with files.
When needed, I just start filing with the wood on the teeth. No pilling!

 

[slowtwitch73]

If they are that rusty, there's a good chance they are beat to hell and worn out.

There's place that resharpens files:

Boggs Tool & File Sharpening Company

14100 Orange Ave, Paramount, CA 90723 [email protected] (800) 547-5244

boggstool.com

 

[four.cycle]

I put all my old beaters on Craigslist for free and somebody picked them up.
Ordered a mess of NOS (American made) Nicholson from Cripe Distributing on Ebay. Cheap. No sense fartin' around with files or drill bits - when they're dull, toss 'em and buy new ones.

 

[macgee]

I really caution using vinegar and drain cleaner—sulfuric acid, they're both an acid and attacks/eats good metal and not just rust unlike Evaporust that only attacks rust and leaves the good metal alone. You'll find many people referencing vinegar and can work but also beware of the negatives about it, especially if you forget the file in the bath for a long time. The acid thins out the metal helping the edges seem sharper but the edges also dull much quicker after doing it. Doesn't really matter with cheap Pacific region made files but suggesting to beware when trying to clean your coveted vintage USA, Swedish or Swiss made files that are no longer possible to find easily or cost an arm & leg to replace.

Another suggestion: Soaking files in Goof-Off or strong degreaser overnight especially in a warm ultrasonic cleaner (works really well) to remove/soften up greasy grime that prevents cleaners reaching the metal is key before using Evaporust, also use a thin very stiff brush (not metal), I cut down tooth brushes with a scissor to make them stiffer. Evaporust bath (approx. 6-8 hours) and again stiff brush and then rubbing alcohol to prevent flash rust. Try not to use metal brushes despite seeing them on file cards, they dull the edges, especially on fine tooth files and especially on vinegar thinned out files. With really tough spots and clogged files I will use a new sharp razor (not the thick box cutter razors) and run it parallel in between the teeth edges to clean out the valleys, it can be time consuming but found it the best way to get out stiff/hard ****, it's especially useful getting clogged aluminum (pinning) out of the valleys without hurting the sharp edges. Lye (sodium hydroxide) attacks & eats away aluminum but not carbon steel which is how pro's remove a badly pinned files.

Agree with Slowtwitch post above, Boggs is a great company that does a fantastic job cleaning and sharpening files at very reasonable prices.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Another good trick is to get a bullet casing (brass), flatten the end in a vise, and then run it parallel to the teeth.. it creaets a toothed cleaner/scraper.. couple swipes with it and the file teeth are clean. Obviously other materials would work as well.

For Al files, I spray them with WD40 before use.

Unless I find an old file in a case (never) or that has a cool handle, I pass anymore and go for nos off Ebay as four.cycle said.

A box of files banging together is a sad sight.

 

[ray h]

Thanks for all the help. Mr. mcgee, thanks for the well thought out reply, I guess I settled on just using the Evaporust when working on some today. First, all the files are Nicholson, Simmons, Grobet plus another name I don't recall. All were new. I wrapped the files in VPI paper individually to prevent rubbing each other. I bought files for special shapes and cuts, like the Grobet long pillars in cut 0,2 and 4 etc. I did use a wire brush on the files I cleaned so far but will try the shorten stiff nylon brushes, I have some. Looking today 2/3 will be fine. I'm cleaning around 30 so these will be swapped out with some I'm using now.. I was thinking of spraying the files with the 50/50 Acetone/ATF thinking it would leave a thin fine oil without gumming up the teeth. The other thing I looked at was setting the files on edge in some Alum trays with a thin wood strip between them to prevent touching. I did wonder if the wood (pine) would draw moisture??? The wood did look to give good protection from hitting. I'll run them all thru the ultrasonic cleaner before final oiling them. slowtwitch brass casing are a good idea. I've used them for a few years. I'll try one on the rust, didn't think about it. Thanks all.

 

[macgee]

Thanks for all the help. Mr. mcgee, thanks for the well thought out reply,

You're welcome, hopefully you find it useful.

The other thing I looked at was setting the files on edge in some Alum trays with a thin wood strip between them to prevent touching. I did wonder if the wood (pine) would draw moisture???

I found that lining a drawer with thin (.099") cheap office loop carpet sold at big box stores works well for files, protects edges and prevents them from sliding around and then use VCI paper between duplicate files to protect them from touching each other and prevent rust.

Today I had to use my ultrasonic cleaner with Simple Green and tossed in one of my dirty B files (not rusted) that I just used on a bronze bushing and some light aluminum use, it actually came out really nice and surprisingly removed a lot of the pinning. recommend using your ultrasonic cleaner first, then brush it before putting it in the evaporust.

 

[Jland]

I have talked to a few old timers.. and I am almost 60.. and more than one has said toss them in the grass over night and let them rust up a bit... the rust will give them an edge to work with. I’ve not actually tried this but that is what some old dudes say personally I have no files made in the pats 30 or so years.. modern files seem to just ****. I do have a file card that I use on every file before I work with it, gotta keep them clean or the will not work

 

[RTM]

One thing to beware, when making a wooden rack, the glue gave me fits. I used a board, and glued dowels in for uprights. Got rust near where the files touched the dowels. Not sure if I didn’t let it dry enough, or what.

 

[steaks&anvils]

One thing to beware, when making a wooden rack, the glue gave me fits. I used a board, and glued dowels in for uprights. Got rust near where the files touched the dowels. Not sure if I didn’t let it dry enough, or what.

Off gassing as the glue cures. It can take a long time to cure where the pin is inside the wood.

I had this happen too. When I made some tool holders and used glued in dowels for supports.

 

[toolenthusiast]

Off gassing as the glue cures. It can take a long time to cure where the pin is inside the wood.

I had this happen too. When I made some tool holders and used glued in dowels for supports.

Perhaps a nice friction fit augmented by a dab of super glue, rather than the normal method of flooding the hole with wood glue?

 

[slowtwitch73]

I put them in a tool drawer with a lining, and lay them out so they don't touch. I have another half layer of yoga mat on top of that with more files on top... I just lift it over to the other side if I need to get to a file below.

I keep the good ones in the drawer, new one in wrappers. As they wear out they get relegated to laying on out on the bench, lathe, or dp. Next step is recycle, make a knife out of them, or put in a box to be sent off for re sharpening some day.

I have waaay too many files.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Perhaps a nice friction fit augmented by a dab of super glue, rather than the normal method of flooding the hole with wood glue?

Too late, Gorilla glue and repurposed lumber worked fine. I now know to just let it cure for longer and maybe leave it in the sun for awhile...

 

[nadogail]

I brush mine with a file card and have a sheet of oiled cardboard in the bottom of the drawer I store the files in.

 

[ray h]

Mr.macgee, I dumped my old solution and replaced it with simple green aircraft( it's not green). I tried to find the mix you used in another thread but couldn't find it. I used an 1 to 8.??? Some of the dark color on the files could have been hard dry oil and maybe the Evaporust didn't penetrate it. The SG cleaner didn't do anything to the rust spots but they looked better when I put them in the Evaporust tank this afternoon, I'll check them tomorrow. I just ordered new VCI paper. I see where another ultrasonic cleaner would be handy just for the Evaporust. It looks like I have a handle on this problem, thanks for all the help guys.

 

[LesserSon]

Last weekend, I picked up three long-neglected Nicholson #50 cabinet rasps at an estate sale, for 1% of what they retail new. Worth a few hours labor to rehabilitate.
These rasps are very fine, and leave a surface on hardwood comparable to sandpaper, without leaving tool-dulling grit embedded in the wood. Here’s one lying atop a very coarse rasp.First, I scrubbed them with degreaser and a toothbrush, then Simple Green and a brass brush.
Rasps present a more difficult tooth geometry than files. I used a utility knife to clean out the divot below each tooth.

Here they are afterward.
I would have preferred to leave the black oxide, as it does help with rusting, and it is harder than raw steel. But there were still clumps of red oxide clinging in each divot. I decided to soak them in Metal Rescue and scrub them with a stainless steel brush.
Here they are in as-found condition.Here they are in final state.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nicely done, LS.

 

[Shiftless]

Good tool ****, LS.
I love the before and after pics that guys post on various GJ threads.

 

[RoninB4]

Oak can corrode steel when in direct contact. So for any of you wanting a nice oak divider for your files, drills, taps, etc. Better choose another species of wood for a drawer divider.

 

[DylanDeVoto]

I really caution using vinegar and drain cleaner—sulfuric acid, they're both an acid and attacks/eats good metal and not just rust unlike Evaporust that only attacks rust and leaves the good metal alone. You'll find many people referencing vinegar and can work but also beware of the negatives about it, especially if you forget the file in the bath for a long time. The acid thins out the metal helping the edges seem sharper but the edges also dull much quicker after doing it. Doesn't really matter with cheap Pacific region made files but suggesting to beware when trying to clean your coveted vintage USA, Swedish or Swiss made files that are no longer possible to find easily or cost an arm & leg to replace.

Another suggestion: Soaking files in Goof-Off or strong degreaser overnight especially in a warm ultrasonic cleaner (works really well) to remove/soften up greasy grime that prevents cleaners reaching the metal is key before using Evaporust, also use a thin very stiff brush (not metal), I cut down tooth brushes with a scissor to make them stiffer. Evaporust bath (approx. 6-8 hours) and again stiff brush and then rubbing alcohol to prevent flash rust. Try not to use metal brushes despite seeing them on file cards, they dull the edges, especially on fine tooth files and especially on vinegar thinned out files. With really tough spots and clogged files I will use a new sharp razor (not the thick box cutter razors) and run it parallel in between the teeth edges to clean out the valleys, it can be time consuming but found it the best way to get out stiff/hard ****, it's especially useful getting clogged aluminum (pinning) out of the valleys without hurting the sharp edges. Lye (sodium hydroxide) attacks & eats away aluminum but not carbon steel which is how pro's remove a badly pinned files.

Agree with Slowtwitch post above, Boggs is a great company that does a fantastic job cleaning and sharpening files at very reasonable prices.

I don't think it's common for people to own an ultrasonic cleaner with a capacity large enough to put their files in. I mean, where did you get yours, how much did you pay for it, and what exactly are it's internal dimensions? I have one, but I couldn't even fit my smallest metal file into it. Just saying... maybe the one you use is industrial or something, because I've never actually seen one that my largest files would fit into. Let alone own one. Also, are you saying that a brass bristle brush will harm a file? Because brass is metal. I use a file card and it seems fine, but I also go with the grain of the file grooves.

 

[seber]

One of the most abrasive materials you can use to clean a file is brass. Think about how honing is done. Load a brass rod with abrasive because it is soft and embeds the grit. A hard steel file card on the other hand slides easily without damage. There is a reason they have been used for a hundred years.

 

[ecotec]

I do what slowtwitch does. I lay them in a drawer, and have them touch as little as possible. I have so many files that I was able to give away most files not made in USA or Switzerland. Almost every handle is made in USA.

I have yet to find a #5 size handle that says made in USA on it. The local industrial stores only have made in USA on sizes up to #4. I don’t want to order one off the internet just to have it not say made in USA…

 

[Outwest]

I do what slowtwitch does. I lay them in a drawer, and have them touch as little as possible. I have so many files that I was able to give away most files not made in USA or Switzerland. Almost every handle is made in USA.

I have yet to find a #5 size handle that says made in USA on it. The local industrial stores only have made in USA on sizes up to #4. I don’t want to order one off the internet just to have it not say made in USA…

Check Harry Epstein’s for your #5.

 

[DylanDeVoto]

One of the most abrasive materials you can use to clean a file is brass. Think about how honing is done. Load a brass rod with abrasive because it is soft and embeds the grit. A hard steel file card on the other hand slides easily without damage. There is a reason they have been used for a hundred years.

I use a file card on my files but I was thinking of it in the way one uses a brass wire brush or brass hammer on steel because it's softer and thus non-marring. So you are saying that it causes more friction and can cause deformation of the files teeth?
Pardon my ignorance, but the honing process with a brass rod is something I've never heard of. What are you honing with a brass rod and what abrasive are you loading it with? I googled honing with a brass rod and didn't find anything that made sense. I hone knives on leather loaded with compound or on the edge of a tempered glass car window.... is this the type of honing you are referring to?

 

[Sumboodie]

I have a small drawer if files, but it's rare I use them. Probably most common is fixing threads or sharpening a chain, though normally use a grinder for that.

 

[Beerhippie]

@LesserSon : If you like the black-finish look, soak them for a few minutes in hot, dilute phosphoric acid solution, ~10%, and let dry without rinsing. It'll give you a nice, black iron phosphate finish that takes oil very well.

 

[seber]

I use a file card on my files but I was thinking of it in the way one uses a brass wire brush or brass hammer on steel because it's softer and thus non-marring. So you are saying that it causes more friction and can cause deformation of the files teeth?
Pardon my ignorance, but the honing process with a brass rod is something I've never heard of. What are you honing with a brass rod and what abrasive are you loading it with? I googled honing with a brass rod and didn't find anything that made sense. I hone knives on leather loaded with compound or on the edge of a tempered glass car window.... is this the type of honing you are referring to?

Modern honing machines use abrasive rods moving in an oil bath for refining drilled holes but traditional method was a brass rod rolled in fine abrasive. My own experience with this was with production machinery that had been retrofitted with brass bushings replacing cast iron by the maintenance personnel because they could buy them off the shelf instead of having to machine them from rough castings. The machinery ran in an open atmosphere with fine steel chips and dust everywhere. The bushings wore out the spindles in short order. Manufacturing engineers spend a lot of time troubleshooting.

 

[DylanDeVoto]

Modern honing machines use abrasive rods moving in an oil bath for refining drilled holes but traditional method was a brass rod rolled in fine abrasive. My own experience with this was with production machinery that had been retrofitted with brass bushings replacing cast iron by the maintenance personnel because they could buy them off the shelf instead of having to machine them from rough castings. The machinery ran in an open atmosphere with fine steel chips and dust everywhere. The bushings wore out the spindles in short order. Manufacturing engineers spend a lot of time troubleshooting.

So the bushings were brass and the spindles were cast iron, right? The bushings wore excessively due to burnishing, as far as I understand. I've also read that sharpening soft stainless steel knives on a diamond stone is hard on the stone because the soft, ductile steel will "grab" the diamonds and can pull them out of their nickel matrix. But I also have used a brass wire brush to clean the swarf our of my DMT diamond stones without any noticeable damage. I'm still learning about all of this. The only files I buy are second hand from yard sales and consignment stores because I like old stuff. Not to mention, many folks online who buy modern files tend to describe them as being of generally poor quality. It seems they are not nearly as hard as the old ones that I have acquired. Anyway, I've not seen any damage sustained from the use of a brass wire brush. Yet.

 

[seber]

So the bushings were brass and the spindles were cast iron, right? The bushings wore excessively due to burnishing, as far as I understand. I've also read that sharpening soft stainless steel knives on a diamond stone is hard on the stone because the soft, ductile steel will "grab" the diamonds and can pull them out of their nickel matrix. But I also have used a brass wire brush to clean the swarf our of my DMT diamond stones without any noticeable damage. I'm still learning about all of this. The only files I buy are second hand from yard sales and consignment stores because I like old stuff. Not to mention, many folks online who buy modern files tend to describe them as being of generally poor quality. It seems they are not nearly as hard as the old ones that I have acquired. Anyway, I've not seen any damage sustained from the use of a brass wire brush. Yet.

No. Sorry if I was unclear. The spindles were case hardened steel and the original bushings were cast iron. The bushings were then replaced with Oilite brass. When I got involved I had to replace both the spindles and the bushings. Went back to the original cast iron bushings. I really should have said sleeve bearings.