Fill or dig

[matvoz]

Good morning. Been lurking for about a year, first time poster. I am working on designing a workshop, but need some help. I live on a sloped lot-approximately 6 feet over a 48 foot length. I am wanting a 32 x 48 foot workshop. My problem is the slope is away from the road. I think my two options are to put in a retaining wall and a bunch of fill to allow the garage doors to face the road or dig into the sloped yard and have the garage doors face away from the road (like a daylight basement). My zoning forces a 20 foot setback, so if the garage doors face away from the road I will have room to drive around the side of the shop to the road. It would be a bit of a pain to get a trailer back there though. This will be a bit of a budget build. The purpose of the shop would be to do woodworking, storing a couple of cars and weekend projects.

My questions are:

1. From a budget perspective, which way is cheaper and by a lot or a little or are they about the same?
2. Does anyone else have a setup where they have to drive around the shop to get into it?

Thank you.

Matt

 

[78SC4X4]

Have you considered putting the doors on the side of the building? Split the difference on the slope 3' down on road side and 3' up at the bottom. If you have enough room for a 2:1 slope you won't need a wall. But if you do, under 4' typically does not require a permit and is less expensive.

 

[JamesW84]

I dug mine out (6 ft on the deepest end) to make a level pad. I didn't want to worry about getting the fill compacted enough because I have clay and the only real good way to compact clay is with a sheeps-foot rolller.

I have doors in both ends.

As mentioned...why couldn't you put the doors in the side? If you could post a google earth picture, we'd understand better.

 

[matt_i]

Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Digging gets you undisturbed earth in a hole that naturally collects water. If you build the retaining wall as part of the foundation it has to be (should be...) waterproofed just like a basement. But you can dig a larger footprint and then channel water around the sides of the building with some careful analysis and tuning of the grade.

Filling if you don't need a retaining wall is probably cheaper if the fill is close and available from another project which is excavating. Going to guess 500 tons/250 cu yards. Some people take on free fill to offset the cost with time. But then you have to deal with compaction issues before you can reliably trust it for building.

 

[larry_g]

I'm just north of you a few miles and have to say a lot will depend on the soil conditions and the amount of rock you have under it. Some of this area is perty easy to excavate and some is just huge boulders just under the surface. I was just able to eak out a level spot and had to almost blast to get the holes in for poles.

If your north east of town then you can expect rock, West of the river I don't know well enough to say.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any type of retaining wall is difficult and expensive. It get VERY EXPENSIVE if down wrong.

My Shop is FALLING DOWN... Really !

This is a multi-part series. He has been working on it for about 6 weeks and has just finished tearing down the wall that was falling down.

 

[Dustball]

You could consider my house similar to what you want to do. 28 x 42, slab with a perimeter frost footing construction. The slope was dug down to level about 10-15 feet larger than the footprint of the building. This eliminates having to deal with waterproofing any walls that are below grade and the benefit is that compaction is not a worry.

I'm wanting to build a garage/shop next to the house and will be doing the same thing.

 

[matvoz]

Thank you for the feedback. I didn't really think about putting the doors on the side because my setback is 20 feet and I can't go any more than that or I will be encroaching on the house more than I want.

I watched the My Shop is Falling Down video series. That guy has some serious work going on.

My yard has a lot of clay in it, so I suspect the compaction would be something I would worry about.

JamesW84-do you mean you have doors on the high and low side of the slope?

Thanks Again.

 

[PWC Repair]

Check mine out. Almost the same size and situation and I drive around the back. I'm planning an 8x8 door on the front side with a fold down, winch activated pair of ramps. That will sort of give me a lift without actually having anything in the way inside.

 

[LXCam]

Dude this is GJ where budget is noooo obstacle. Go real deep and make it a two story with a car elevator so you can do whatever you want


Without a drawing and dimensions and or pictures and based on what you’ve stated, I go with retention walls and fill. One way or another you’ll be constructing retention walls so I’d opt for the doors facing the street.

 

[SGKent]

how long and wide is the lot space available for a garage? E.G., is the lot 250 feet of which you choose 48 feet you want to use, or is the lot 90 feet total, and you have two 20' setbacks at each end.

 

[Mattlt]

Just my .02, but I would avoid doors on the side of the building. Snow will slide off the roof and be right in front of your doors = PITA. Sounds like you are not going that direction anyway.

Any fill brought in or disturbed should be packed and left over winter, if possible. Re-pack it in spring and start your build then. This is the ideal situation, but it rarely works that way.

I was fortunate that I built my house and shop at the same time. They used the clay fill material from digging the basement to level the shop site. Almost 25 years later, and I don't think I could find a crack in the floor. They did a really nice job on the site prep and the floor.

 

[That Guy Scott]

In all honesty, without pics and a topo map, it’s all a guess. You should have a civil engineer involved or a competent grader at a minimum. I did a cut and fill when I built my house and shop pads. We cut into a hill and we were able to have enough material to built up the shop pad and driveways. 2 weeks worth of grading. I had drainage all figured out by the civil engineer. I get free advice from him still, 3 years later. One of the many things where I spent money and got more back than I ever guessed.

Also, bringing in dirt can be more expensive unless there’s someone looking to dump it for free. I’m looking at extending my backyard pad and I have been stockpiling free dirt for awhile, when I can get it. I’ve had quotes of $4-500 a load of dirt!

 

[u2slow]

I would lean toward fill. No sense in having the shop in a low space and have drainage problems. Consider splitting your site prep into its own project. I did my shop all at once (not knowing the site had issues) and it cost me huge.

Concrete lock-blocks and fill can be almost free if you're opportunistic about it and not in a hurry. Some folks even register to become a 'fill site'... so somebody else pays the trucking.

 

[JamesW84]

JamesW84-do you mean you have doors on the high and low side of the slope?

Thanks Again.

No, sorry. I overdug...I dug out about 10 ft wider on the side and about 25 ft longer in the back than I needed. I have 2 doors in each 32 ft end.

 

[HotrodHR]

Without pics, this thread is...

 

[imjustdave]

I agree photos would really help us. My vote is to make it the simplest for you in terms of getting the trailer in. Usually you get home after a day of driving, or at night. Also a road around the shop is $$ too.

If you can split the difference cut and fill that can be a help. But dont end up with a driveway that *****.

If the property drops off from the road you could have a foundation that supports the garage floor. Either way it's going to cost some $ I feel figuring out the simplest way is the best approach, be it cut and fill with 2:1 slope multiple shorter walls, or getting it over with and engineering a foundation to deal with the soil.

 

[CraigStu]

When we did an add-on 16x22 garage bay the ground sloped to the rear and a little to the left (original garage on the right). The builder did poured footers and then block to 3 courses above the floor, and the slab floor was poured last. We were limited by the height above the normal grade that the garage floor would be. More than 2 ft required that the slab be supported by piers. That was going to add significantly to the costs. So we put the addition 3 steps lower than the original garage and were still limited in overall size as that left rear corner would be higher and higher above grade the larger we made the addition.