Filling the Craftsman void?

[JDon99]

I have a lot of US Craftsman tools from early 00's. For the next 10 years or so, I only worked on newer vehicles with all metric fasteners. In the past few years, I have been wrenching on more SAE stuff, so I needed to fill-in the SAE tools. I then looked into Craftsman again, found that most are now Taiwan or China, so I have jumped ship from them other than some nos US stuff. I try to buy US made tools, I've been building my new sets with Armstrong/Matco, SK, and Williams.

I have found that a majority of people don't care where the tools are made as long as they are cheap. Personally, I'll pay extra for the US stuff and hopefully others do the same so some of these jobs stay here.

 

[70C-10]

Sears, Menards, Napa & HF

 

[cburnscrx]

It's obvious the fact that this isn't a complex, highly scientific, poll, pisses people off. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

I don't think it pisses anybody off, but I think there could be some different options for people that's all.

 

[cheechi]

Don't take it personally. There was another version of this thread (maybe also with a poll) a few months back anyway. And there was plenty of bitching and cman bashing there too.

At least until the HF bashing. You know, it was just like every other thread here.

 

[Tellingthem]

For me I've been buying craftsman and master force (USA) I just picked up some nos fuller screwdrivers (Canada) I like the craftsman name because that is what I grew up using so I'll keep buying it as long as I can find USA stuff (emotional attachment and all) been looking at sk as an upgrade in the future. Use hf for cheap disposable items. I like their moving blankets too. Also have bits and pieces from other companies. I like to stop by local hardware stores on roadtrips and buy something interesting so I pick up lots of different stuff that way.

Mostly DIY but use tools for work as well

 

[mark5767]

I think the poll is pretty good as is, I would add the Allen USA brand perhaps under the store brands?

I know it's available regionally around here (Upper Midwest) at Mills Fleet Farm... not sure where else. I think they may be supplying USA made tools for Menards under the Masterforce brand so people have talked about that one already.

It's a little different than Husky or Kobalt since those seem to be increasingly offshore COO.... the USA Allen and Masterforce seem to be classic higher quality consumer level tools like USA Craftsman used to be (and Husky/Kobalt too). Sears/HD/Lowes seem to be more and more offshore, versus Menards and Mills Fleet Farm with more USA options.

I think it used to be the other way around, at least for Menards. Menards seems to be stepping up their game in recent years improving quality while some of the national retailers are decreasing in quality.

 

[zkling]

It's obvious the fact that this isn't a complex, highly scientific, poll, pisses people off. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

No, just take it as a learning experience. Yes I agree the poll could have been much better, allowing multiple options, separating brands. Because now the way it is I don't think it is giving a true representation of the data needed. So typical of GJ, people make a suggestion or accurate comment, and others act like it was a personal insult against their family. They were just comments, that is all.

Here is the thing, there really is no single brand that can really fill the craftsman void. Every other brand out ATM, falls short in one of the 4 following categories: Price, Ease of availability and warranty (especially for the home guy), USA made, wide selection of tools under one brand. People are just going to have to decide what they want to give up. Craftsman brought alot together brand wise.

For me, what I can't find used.
Channellock, Klein and euro --> pliers.
Probably euro or Williams --> screwdrivers
Mechanics tools such as sockets and wrenches--> Industrial brands, primarily SK and Proto, but the difference in $ is huge compared to craftsman.
Hammers --> Vaughan, which were re branded as craftsman at a lower price than Vaughan name.
Dasco
Throw in a few USA Menards rebaged items.

Honorable mention
Gearwrench, Kobalt, Husky, and for those extremely desperate times HF all Taiwan.

See now which poll choice should I select? All of the items I listed, I previously selected craftsman for. Now I'm looking at ~10+ different companies to fill that void.

Just an FYI, there have been a few threads on this, lets hope this one goes in a positive direction.

 

[rice rocket]

I'm surprised the industrial brands are getting the response that they are. I was simply curious as to which direction Craftsman buyers who felt disenfranchised went for their hardline tools. Most people have a brand they tend to look at first and this was an attempt to determine what that was.

Take a look at the people you're surveying though. It's a self selected bunch of tool nerds on the Internet. As you further assimilate into tool culture, you'll naturally reach for tools that are never "need to have" but more "nice to have", but still want a good "bargain" don't want to shell out for Snap-On type money, which is why your poll skews so much towards the industrial brands.

If you walk into Sears and ask everyone that walks in the door the same question, they'll #1, look at you and be like, oh, they're not made in the USA anymore? And then they'll say oh yeah, everything's made in China now, I don't care.

 

[Conductor562]

Everyone buys different brands for different tools. That is a given and if that had been an option it would have been everyone's answer. I was curious what direction people tend to look instead of Craftsman for the items in which the used to go to Sears for. I was mostly focused on drive tools and maybe should've been clearer on that.

 

[woody 73]

I don't think anyone is pissed but keep in mind we are such a small group (like a pimple on the rear end of a cow); 98% of the shoppers at sears either have no clue as to the china switch, or they could care less because they want it cheap.

I would be more interested in a poll how long can sears survive before going under?

 

[4xdog]

...It's obvious the fact that this isn't a complex, highly scientific, poll, pisses people off. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Speaking for myself, I'm not remotely PO'd. Far from it. It's just too complex to answer with one choice. I've enjoyed reading everyone's input, though.

 

[PugetDude]

It's obvious the fact that this isn't a complex, highly scientific, poll, pisses people off. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Not pissed off at all, but the poll didn't offer a response choice that fits my tool-buying preferences. Would you rather I just checked a random box?

Thanks for posting the poll, though; like most of the GJ threads, for me the wide variety of responses are what make threads worth reading, not the hope of a majority simultaneously arrriving at the same nirvanic conclusion.

 

[Moose97]

This topic comes up all the time. What will replace Craftsman. Nothing currently can. You could get a well-built quality, made-in-America tool with a lifetime warranty at an inexpensive (reasonably) price and do it all at one stop. I guess what amazes me is no one else see's that this opportunity is open. Where are the tool manufacturers looking to expand? I really think one day soon Sears spins off Craftsman and you see a 3 tier tool line. Evolv (made-in-China and as cheap as HF Pittsburgh Pro) , Craftsman (made in USA slightly more expensive than now) and Craftsman PRO to compete with the tool truck boys. Evolv will be the best seller but how awesome would that be? A HD or Lowe's might pick it up or maybe a Target to compete with Walmart and Stanley. Who knows, maybe independent Craftsman stores.

 

[cheechi]

Depending who you ask, Cman pro never did compete with the trucks. Plenty of us like the Pro level from sears but I personally still think there's a gap on a lot of products.

Evolv is not as good as HF Pro by any stretch. In many cases not as good as 'standard' HF.

 

[Farmall450]

I think the poll is pretty good as is, I would add the Allen USA brand perhaps under the store brands?

I know it's available regionally around here (Upper Midwest) at Mills Fleet Farm... not sure where else. I think they may be supplying USA made tools for Menards under the Masterforce brand so people have talked about that one already.

It's a little different than Husky or Kobalt since those seem to be increasingly offshore COO.... the USA Allen and Masterforce seem to be classic higher quality consumer level tools like USA Craftsman used to be (and Husky/Kobalt too). Sears/HD/Lowes seem to be more and more offshore, versus Menards and Mills Fleet Farm with more USA options.

I think it used to be the other way around, at least for Menards. Menards seems to be stepping up their game in recent years improving quality while some of the national retailers are decreasing in quality.

Farm & Fleet carries Allen by us, I would put them on the same level as Cman, if not lower, judging by limited options, and shoddyish ratchets...

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Conductor562.. Thanks for the poll... Simple and basic request to check the one answer that BEST APPLIES to one's purchase plans..... Well shame on you for the deletion of those eleven pages of fine print But, I am glad to see a majority of the votes are in favor of better quality tools, rather than junkier.... Again, thanks, this poll made my day.


yep, I voted for ProTo to boot.

 

[crewchief888]

ready through this thread, i see a trend, most of the resposes seem to have been from the DIY's/home wrenchers.

i'll toss out a "pro's" response.
i've been wrenching for 30 years, and was a machinist prior to that

at least 98% of my "working" tools came from a tool truck, almost 100% of them bought new...
my "home" tools are a mixed mess of 15-25 year old CM, 55 year old SK, used truck brands, used industrial, gearwrench, kobalt, newer SK.


i rarely buy a "set" of anything anymore, my boxes are overstuffed with sets of tools that some have never been used.

i'm usually wanting/needing a single socket or wrench for a particular job.

after chasing single individual tools around at sears, auto parts stores, and big box stores, i've had the best luck finding what i need @ lowes.

if i have the time to search, i'll look for truck, industrial brands, but that may take weeks or months, or head to lowes and get a nice shiney new one.

 

[John in OH]

This topic comes up all the time. What will replace Craftsman. Nothing currently can. You could get a well-built quality, made-in-America tool with a lifetime warranty at an inexpensive (reasonably) price and do it all at one stop. .......

This pretty much summarizes what I always felt was the strength of Craftsman along with the large range of tools available at most Sears stores. No single tool source currently meets these characteristics, so many of us are now wandering in the wasteland searching for "well-built quality, made-in-America tool with a lifetime warranty at an inexpensive (reasonably) price" at whatever location they can be found.

Personally, I've always bought a lot of Wright, Proto and Armstrong tools (although these brands don't necessarily meet the "inexpensive (reasonably) price" criteria and those are the brands I still look at first. But, I've now also been looking at NAPA (Carlyle), Gearwrench, Kobalt and some of the random USA made tools from Epstein.

I've pretty much abandoned Cman completely except for a few items that are still US made ... for instance, this past weekend I bought a new US-made Cman black plastic, low-profile, under-seat toolbox for my wife's car.

 

[crewchief888]

That's because most pros already probably use non-Craftsman tools, so they don't need to find a replacement for Craftsman.

It makes total sense that mostly DIY'ers have responded because they're the ones who have bought Craftsman. That's who it has mostly been aimed at and Craftsman was a very good value in USA-made hand tools. It was a great choice for the DIY'er.

i agree with ya

until 3 or 4 years ago, most all my "home" stuff was CM.

around here, (even with a full line sears & sears hardware it's getting harder to find CM open stock.

or maybe it's just the items i'm looking for

 

[shockwave]

I would have to say that gearwrench it taking over a lot of peoples tool boxes to replace craftsman as premium brand that is available at a lot of retail locations and the price is right with craftsman users. Where the industrial brands are very scarse in retail levels and husky/kobalt are exclusive to home depot/Lowe's and German and truck brands will not appeal to most because of the price

 

[parnass]

My last few tool purchases were SK, Masterforce (sold by Menards), and Williams. I would have continued buying Craftsman if they were made in USA.

My preference is USA made tools. My absolutely last choice would be tools made in China. There are several options in between, including buying older, used tools made in USA.

 

[thinman]

Interesting poll. I mostly use tools at home now. Snap On has always been my first choice for something that I use very much. For infrequently used items, the Lowes store near me does a good job.

 

[Bib Overalls]

I filled out some of my Craftsman sets with USA made versions on eBay. And I have bought some miscellaneous Craftsman USA out of the bins at the local pawn shops. I'll continue to do that. However, some of the off shore Craftsman tools are starting to show up on eBay. Make sure the offer says "Made In USA." If it doesn't then it most likely isn't.

I'm buying Gearwrench and Kobalt for the most part these days.

 

[CWP1616L]

- Proto, Wright, Williams, Armstrong, or other Industrial brand

- Snap-On, Mac, Matco, or Cornwell

^Those two.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to be a Craftsman bashing thread. It is a legitimate question of honest curiosity. If you wish to discuss the ridiculous decline in Craftsman quality, nominate Sear's as the Anti-Christ, blame labor unions for all of America's problems, or curse the ****** lobster claw wrench design, please utilize one of the 4,256 existing such threads to do so.

It's no secret the Craftsman outsourcing left a void in the tool market as we knew it. As the last truly affordable, American made , full line of tools, many DIY/Non-Professional types found themselves with a decision to make. Some undoubtedly cared enough about COO to upgrade to a professional brand for future purchases, some felt it ridiculous to pay the same prices for China sourced tools that were previously paying for USA made tools and migrated to a better quality, comparably priced Asian brand, and some decided to keep by Craftsman for whatever reason.

Please answer my poll question. I am genuinely curious what direction the GJ community has went.

If you buy gearwrench chinese and think that's better than buying craftsman chinese there's probably a duck pond in your future.

I'll buy chinese if it's cheap enough with a lifetime warranty (or without); depends on the fit & finish. Otherwise I stick to the better quality import stuff or old stock usa (some stuff). Most of the kobalt and pittsburgh pro taiwanese stuff is better than people give them credit for; that's what you get if you can and you can't afford (or don't want to pay for) higher end US or imported stuff.

 

[Conductor562]

If you buy gearwrench chinese and think that's better than buying craftsman chinese there's probably a duck pond in your future.

I don't buy either. I buy Proto almost exclusively for everything except pliers for which I buy Channellock. I have a few Craftsman items such as the Western Forge pullers, punches, and chisels, but that's the extent of it.

 

[Boog]

... however I still intend to buy Craftsman... used Craftsman. 1950's - 1970's Craftsman. Cant beat it & cant kill it.

X3. Older/vintage Craftsman is easy to find at garage/estate sales. If I see it, I buy it... as long as its in good condition and not too pricy. I love finding the -v- & =v= stuff!

 

[bobcatdan]

I stopped buying craftsman almost 10 years ago. There was a noticeable drop in quality from 96 97 when I started buying tools until I pretty much stopped in 02. I still have most of my craftsman tools which is a pretty healthy set, but they are just weight in my home box.

 

[Moose97]

Depending who you ask, Cman pro never did compete with the trucks. Plenty of us like the Pro level from sears but I personally still think there's a gap on a lot of products.

Evolv is not as good as HF Pro by any stretch. In many cases not as good as 'standard' HF.

My thought was if my scenario were to occur that the Craftsman Pro line would step up from where they are now. The current Craftsman series (which, let's face it is really geared to the DIY'er) would also step up from where it is now and so could the Evolv line.

 

[Gmonkee]

I see the 'best applies' answer as the chain store brands myself. Although there have been few new buys the last year. I'm no longer full time in the wrenching business.

The accumulated collection is some euro, some high end USA and mostly better Asain for the rest. The buys are a little new stuff, mostly used tools to fill areas I was lacking for the well rounded home handyman.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Bought with student discounts; ProTo bumped my Craftsman tools to secondary use back in 1970. Snap-On was added over the years mainly due to their weekly red carpet doorstep service.. "My" ProTo retailer was over 90 miles away, and I pulled wrenches six days a week.. I purchased some SK at the local hardware store, but they closed.. An area auto supply sold Duro, but Duro disappeared from their display.. Craftsman, all the while, remained available during that Sunday cruise to the mall. Some of the Craftsman WAS suitable for secondary and vehicle boxes. And, I will continue to use my good Craftsman. But, the ongoing decline of quality in much of the Craftsman lineup has dampened my desire for further purchases.. I will still buzzard peck a few USA Craftsman pieces now and then, but nowdays, ProTo can be ordered from my easy chair and delivered to my doorstep with the wonderful www.. Same with SK, and nos and used Snap-On. Everyone has their story.

 

[Revere Cycles]

Anything that's Craftsman that I wanted, I already own. New hand tool purchases are a mix, the new stuff is usually Channel Lock, Knipex, Klein, Wera, Felo, or Wiha. As for used tools, Proto, Williams, Utica, Mac, & Snap-on. I have picked up a few Gearwrench & Duralast things, as well as some Husky and Kobalt. I really try to stay away from those products, but sometimes my anticipated use cannot justify a higher priced tool.

 

[rice rocket]

So I was in Costco today, and strolled through the car/tool aisle (as I always must), and they had a 150-piece mechanics set for $99, with 'MADE IN USA' in big letters on it.

What the story here? Glad they see the light, but is the quality back as well?

 

[Aquaticbob]

So I was in Costco today, and strolled through the car/tool aisle (as I always must), and they had a 150-piece mechanics set for $99, with 'MADE IN USA' in big letters on it.

What the story here? Glad they see the light, but is the quality back as well?

This is new old stock for sale at Costco. Myself and many of my friends have picked these up. I heard the sets were manufactured many years ago and just sat in warehouses

 

[ArtDeco]

I'm filling out my Craftsman collection - picking up if the price is right, all second hand. American made tools will be a lot less cheap and plentiful in the future so I get it while I can.

If I need new - I shop online unless I need it immediately and get what I can... sometimes foreign if it's the best option albeit temporarily.

 

[Dave-666]

I'm still using my 20 year old Craftsman socket set.
I have a USA Craftsman ratcheting combination wrench set that works perfectly.
I have a set of Gearwrench ratcheting combination wrenches that skip and make me dislike Gearwrench.
Recent stubby combination wrenches came from Northern.
Some Kobalt from Lowes.
My biggest purchase recently has been a 6pt deep socket set by Williams.
I have nothing from the top shelf names.

I am constantly finding tools at the stop light and in the intersection. I guess everybody in America is a mechanic. Stuff just falls off trucks left and right. I'd like to see somebody put together a complete ''found'' tool set.

 

[L&M Garage]

I prefer craftsman tools over others i bought a 200+ piece mechanic's tool set for 199.00 on sale it was a great buy i bought the set in 2005 an still have it. it's been over 8 years that i have had the set an in that time i have worked on lots of car's trucks, an other project's and have never had a problem with an of the tools in the set never had a broken wrench,socket or ratchet so for the money an still going strong after 8 years of use i think its a great deal .

 

[Tacoma bo]

I would have to say that gearwrench it taking over a lot of peoples tool boxes to replace craftsman as premium brand that is available at a lot of retail locations and the price is right with craftsman users. Where the industrial brands are very scarse in retail levels and husky/kobalt are exclusive to home depot/Lowe's and German and truck brands will not appeal to most because of the price

X2

Gearwrench hasn't failed me yet. I enjoy their products.

 

[Aberdale]

My answer:

None of the above.

I choose to buy used Snap-On. About the same price as new second tier tools.
Why buy new S-K, or Gearwrench, or whatever when you can buy used Snap-On at the same price?

If you buy new, after the first scuff on the chrome it is used. Might as well buy the best used tools I can buy. No regrets.

'dale

 

[camoguy]

I'm glad you made this thread. I switched from Craftsman to Kobalt a few years ago. I have quite a bit of Taiwan Kobalt. But over the last year I've seen the Kobalt changing to Chinese and the quality is diminished. I'm looking for similarly priced better quality and you guys have given me some stuff to look at.