Finalizing Shop plans, feedback encouraged

[jscoggin]

Hello all, I've been a lurker for the last year or so and have been designing a detached shop for at least that long. It started out as a 30'x40' but we all know how that goes, add a foot here and add a foot there and I'm currently up to a 36'x60'. 36' is the width that fits the yard and the depth could be more but isn't needed. Truth be told, 40' deep would be sufficient but when has a man ever wished for smaller size be it a shop or ...

Why do I need a shop? I don't to be honest, it is just something I have always wanted and have been fortunate enough to finally have the means to build. I am restoring a '72 C10 and would love to do many future restorations as well. The space will be for projects as much as for being a giant man cave. I built my father a 40'x70' about four years ago and that is where everyone hangs out, we rarely spend any time in the house when there, I want the same type of space.

My plans are to have;

* 12' plate. I'll probably never get a lift but I'd rather have the height for it should I ever change my mind.

* (1) garage door. Currently at 16'x10' as it should be all I ever need but a 16'x12' is nagging at me. Not so much for me but for resale should I ever sell.

* Stick built (2x4), full masonry and composition shingled. These are non negotiable as they are HOA required and more importantly, wife required.

* Windows. I've seen a lot of pros and cons on this subject and have changed my mind a few times but natural light trumps all of the cons I believe. I plan on installing at least (6) non operable windows that will be up high which eliminates security concerns.

* Bathroom. It will have at minimum a toilet and oversized sink. I've considered a shower but that is probably a bit overkill, I welcome input on any of this.

* Spray insulation. It is expensive but my dad's shop gets pretty rough, I think comfort is worth it.

* HVAC, see notes for insulation.

* 200 amp panel. Probably way overkill for what I'll ever need but it is better to have and not need vs need and not have. I love O/L's, will run a ton of them. Also will hard wire cat 5 and coax direct from the house.

* Lighting. My plan is to buy a bunch of the cheap LED's off of Amazon. I know this is one of the most hotly contested shop items and I am open for feedback either good or bad. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0748YTDMK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

* Flooring. I love epoxy but I do have a budget and this is an item I can do without if forced to prioritize. I'd rather have a bigger shop with bare concrete than a smaller one with pretty floors.

* Wall finish out. This is one I've gone back and forth on and the tons of threads here haven't helped. I initially planned on painted OSB, have thought of using recycled fence boards and am currently at drywall.

I welcome any and all feedback. My plan is to break ground in 45-60 days and I want to get plans to permits in the next 2-3 weeks. Thank you.

 

[///MPower]

This looks awesome! My one suggestion would be, even if you don't think you will ever use it, run some cat5, coax, and speaker cable to some strategic locations. Probably less than $100 in cable all in and then your garage doubles as a man cave should you ever want to hook up computer/tv/stereo.

 

[RPH]

Where are you located? Any thoughts on insulation? Also around here where I live 12 foot ceiling is either pole building or 2x6 walls. No 2x4 walls at that height.

 

[matt_i]

Check into your sewer requirements as they can vary wildly by location

Attic storage trusses?

I definitely agree on the windows, while they have some directional "wrongs" if you are concerned about resale and doing full brick veneer I would make it complement the house. If you are building a brick veneer shop hopefully its not a high-crime area to start with...

Imo 200A panel is unnecessary overkill. 125A would be plenty in my estimation. I run a full 1 man machine & welding shop with many lights and HVAC off a 100A panel without ever a nuisance trip.

My personal opinion on the LED lights is that the "low end price point" may not live 25 years, but by then there might be a hot new technology or implementation of technology that will make us all want to change every single one of them again. I used CostCo tube-style LEDs in my build and have been very happy with them.

I believe you can do pretty well with 2x6 walls, Roxul and paying attention to air-sealing, like caulking the framing before you close up the walls. Spray is good but I'd do a straight dollar comparison of the 2x4 to 2x6 change plus a "better" insulation like Roxul.

The garage door seems overly offset to the side, imo, like if you backed in a vehicle, you couldn't get out of the driver's side without doing an S-curve. Or drove in with a passenger they'd be trapped.

 

[GrayFlattop]

Not sure where you are located, but you mentioned insulation, so I'm assuming that it gets cold there. There is another thread here on "what I'd do differently" with respect to member's garage builds - you might want to look at that.

I'll stick with thoughts of putting PEX in the slab for radiant heat - even if you don't hook up a heat source right away, the tubing and labor is relatively inexpensive compared to the comfort.

125 amps is probably enough, but the cost difference for 200 amp service is slight. with LEDs your lighting load will be lower. You may have a lot of equipment planned, but chances are you won't be arc welding while you have your 7.5 HP compressor on while using your table saw and 10 HP surface planer.

IF you can get it in your area, having 3-phase power opens a world of industrial machinery options to you, but that too costs more $ and may raise some eyebrows in the building department.

BUT the larger panel nets you more breaker spaces.

Consider how you want to finish your floor - read the threads here on the topic and finish your floor before moving anything in. I used epoxy and painted around a large stack of MDF and MCP - thinking I'd get back in there in a few months. 30 years later I still haven't gotten to it. Just as well as the original epoxy is looking tired in many spots. I would strongly suggest having a professional do the floor finishing. I like the polished concrete floor look myself, but that's a matter of taste.

You are on-track with the 12' ceiling. Insulate everything and hang sheetrock. Paint it white.

If a slop sink and toilet are a must, I'd say a urinal and a slop sink is minimum, but if you are having plumbing run out there, you might as well rough-in for a shower. You never know - the wife may kick you out of the house, OR maybe you will be doing major remodeling on the main house and this will at least give you a place to clean up while your house is torn-up.

On the topic of plumbing, you might want to consider a washer/dryer (or rough-in for them) as you can wash your oily clothes and shop rags there without ******* off the wife.

Don't forget a refrigerator.

Not sure what type of work you plan on doing in the garage, but one of the best things I did was to run a 3/4 conduit in the slab from the panel to where I was planning on putting my table saw (which of course needs room all around). It is SO nice to NOT trip over a big cord.

If you are mounting the windows up high to slow down thieves, consider putting in a few operating windows to let the fresh air in when the weather is nice.

I liked the side deck with roof next to the garage. I'd say make that a little bigger and have a small overhead door in addition to the "man-door". You never know how you are going to use that space - maybe you'll roll out the big grill, maybe you'll want to do some wrenching on your bike or ATV or simply sit outside to watch that big screen TV that is mounted inside on a giant swivel mount. Maybe you have a riding mower or tractor or bobcat you like to work on.

I'm jealous of the size you are able to build - best of luck to you!

 

[jscoggin]

This looks awesome! My one suggestion would be, even if you don't think you will ever use it, run some cat5, coax, and speaker cable to some strategic locations. Probably less than $100 in cable all in and then your garage doubles as a man cave should you ever want to hook up computer/tv/stereo.

Yes sir, this is absolutely the plan. I work from home and will definitely be having internet, TV and music in the shop. I'll be running at least a 2" conduit and adding (2) Cat5 and a Coax. I doubt I'll ever need more than that but am open to it if necessary.

Where are you located? Any thoughts on insulation? Also around here where I live 12 foot ceiling is either pole building or 2x6 walls. No 2x4 walls at that height.

I'm about 30 miles SW of Dallas, I'll be doing spray foam insulation and eventually installing a full HVAC system. I want it comfortable year round. Winters aren't awful here but summers get a bit on the toasty side. I've lived most of my life to this point roughing it, I want to treat myself to a bit more of the creature comforts now. Maybe that makes me a wuss, I'm OK with that.

My father's shop has a 16' plate but is a pole building and my HOA doesn't allow them or I would be going that route. I had considered 2x6 walls and haven't ruled them out but I don't think they are necessary. If there are any structural engineers here that say otherwise, I'm more than willing to listen to that line of reasoning.

Check into your sewer requirements as they can vary wildly by location

I've studied the city regulations pretty well and think I'm good. I have 1.03 acres and am allowed to have a full bathroom. My buddy lives only 1/2 mile away and has exactly 1 acre and cannot do plumbing. The regulations call for greater than 1 acre for a bathroom so he missed it by that much. On the plus side, his HOA allows metal buildings so his price per square foot will be drastically cheaper than mine, bathroom or not.

Attic storage trusses?

Initially I had planned on using them but have ruled it out. It was going to add about $1,000 and I decided I'd rather use that money to pay for more main floor square footage than for trusses that I will likely never use. It was one of the mind tricks that jumped me from 30x40 to 36x60. 'Honey I saved you money, the stuff I bought was on sale'.

I definitely agree on the windows, while they have some directional "wrongs" if you are concerned about resale and doing full brick veneer I would make it complement the house. If you are building a brick veneer shop hopefully its not a high-crime area to start with...

Not a high crime area but it is a pretty nice area and crooks like to go where the good stuff is so anything is possible. Having said that, I plan on going with 2'x5' non operable windows and having them 10' off of the ground. At that point, no one that wants in is going to mess with the windows, they'll just kick in the door.

Imo 200A panel is unnecessary overkill. 125A would be plenty in my estimation. I run a full 1 man machine & welding shop with many lights and HVAC off a 100A panel without ever a nuisance trip.

I was thinking this would be the case, thank you for the advice. I plan on having around 20 quad boxes, 18 or so LED 4' lights, 220 O/L for compressor, 220 O/L for a welder and an HVAC system. I initially bought a 100A box then second guessed myself and bought a 200A. Figured I'd probably never need it but the price difference was next to nothing so why not. I can't think of any downsides to having a bigger box than needed, am I missing anything?

My personal opinion on the LED lights is that the "low end price point" may not live 25 years, but by then there might be a hot new technology or implementation of technology that will make us all want to change every single one of them again. I used CostCo tube-style LEDs in my build and have been very happy with them.

The reviews on them are great and the prices per light are even better, I just don't see the downside. I agree, if they last 25 years I'd be doing cartwheels. For the price, I'd be OK with half of that.

I believe you can do pretty well with 2x6 walls, Roxul and paying attention to air-sealing, like caulking the framing before you close up the walls. Spray is good but I'd do a straight dollar comparison of the 2x4 to 2x6 change plus a "better" insulation like Roxul.

I did some online research between 2x4 and 2x6 and most everything was inconclusive leaning towards no benefit. The cost wouldn't be much, probably less than $1,000 but unless my engineer tells me there is a structural benefit, I'd much rather put the money somewhere else, like more square footage.

I'll have to research Roxul, I've never heard of it.

The garage door seems overly offset to the side, imo, like if you backed in a vehicle, you couldn't get out of the driver's side without doing an S-curve. Or drove in with a passenger they'd be trapped.

You are right but it is due to the locations of the house driveway and the gate, it isn't ideal but they are fixed points to work from. I initially had 4' from the sidewall to the door but it will now be around 18". If I kept it at 4', there would be a jog from the gate to the door and it is only a 12' gate, I'd prefer a straight shot through and into the garage, compromises.

Most things in the shop will be projects anyways, it won't be used for daily parking so it isn't a huge deal to spend a couple extra seconds parking. I plan on only having two or three cars in there at a time anyways but we all know how that works. I'd put in a larger door but when you get outside of 16' wide, prices start going up quickly.

 

[jscoggin]

Not sure where you are located, but you mentioned insulation, so I'm assuming that it gets cold there. There is another thread here on "what I'd do differently" with respect to member's garage builds - you might want to look at that.

I've been following that thread, there is a lot of good information in it. It gets into the teens here in the Dallas area but generally for no more than a few days at a time, I'm more concerned with keeping the heat out in the summer.

I'm in the construction industry and have a few connections, my insulation guy quoted $3,500 to spray foam. At that price, it just seems to be a no brainer.

I'll stick with thoughts of putting PEX in the slab for radiant heat - even if you don't hook up a heat source right away, the tubing and labor is relatively inexpensive compared to the comfort.

I've thought about this and if money were no object, I'd definitely add it. I do have a budget though and most all of my compromises lean to bigger vs frills.

125 amps is probably enough, but the cost difference for 200 amp service is slight. with LEDs your lighting load will be lower. You may have a lot of equipment planned, but chances are you won't be arc welding while you have your 7.5 HP compressor on while using your table saw and 10 HP surface planer.

IF you can get it in your area, having 3-phase power opens a world of industrial machinery options to you, but that too costs more $ and may raise some eyebrows in the building department.

BUT the larger panel nets you more breaker spaces.

I've never even welded so the need for industrial machinery is probably something I'll never achieve. Don't get me wrong, I will be buying a welder and learning to use it but I just can't see going from where I am now to needing enough draw to power anything that would stress a 125A box much less a 200A box. I like tons of breaker space, not that I will ever use it all but I like keeping my circuits well short of maxed.

Consider how you want to finish your floor - read the threads here on the topic and finish your floor before moving anything in. I used epoxy and painted around a large stack of MDF and MCP - thinking I'd get back in there in a few months. 30 years later I still haven't gotten to it. Just as well as the original epoxy is looking tired in many spots. I would strongly suggest having a professional do the floor finishing. I like the polished concrete floor look myself, but that's a matter of taste.

This is 100% correct, I know it, I've made the mistake before and I think I may again. Really it is just cost. I know clean unmarred concrete is the best base to start from vs years down the line after oil and grease has stained it but it's just not something I have in the budget at the moment. Then again, it would be a lot better to hold off on the HVAC and do the floors first. HVAC can easily be added later, doing floors not so much.

I'm not very picky, I love the look of the epoxy but would settle for just having some type of sealer. I'm wide open for suggestions but price will be the driver. I did my own epoxy about 20 years ago and it was OK but you are right, I'd much prefer it done professional grade vs Home Depot grade.

You are on-track with the 12' ceiling. Insulate everything and hang sheetrock. Paint it white.

12' plate is a done deal and sheetrock is the direction I'm leaning on for wall finishing. However, I planned on leaving the ceiling open and I despise white paint even though I know it is the best choice for brightness. The rafters will be spray foamed and leaving the ceiling open is just a choice, I feel it makes the space feel bigger and it leaves me more options as far as running HVAC, wiring etc.

If a slop sink and toilet are a must, I'd say a urinal and a slop sink is minimum, but if you are having plumbing run out there, you might as well rough-in for a shower. You never know - the wife may kick you out of the house, OR maybe you will be doing major remodeling on the main house and this will at least give you a place to clean up while your house is torn-up.

My dad's shop has been done for four years. I tried to talk him into a toilet/sink at minimum and he thought it was a dumb idea. However, after about six months he started complaining and now he can't stop talking about it, the lack of a bathroom is his one regret with his build. I will be doing a bathroom with a toilet and a 36" single basin kitchen sink at minimum.

The shower was a recent idea and I have been leaning no but the extra costs would be minimal as I can do all of the tile work. Other than giving up a few more square feet of shop and a couple of hundred dollars, I can't think of any downsides. You're right, having a shower would make it livable complete and one hell of a dog house.

On the topic of plumbing, you might want to consider a washer/dryer (or rough-in for them) as you can wash your oily clothes and shop rags there without ******* off the wife.

I absolutely considered this but have enough shop rags that I can get through the year with what I have. I'm willing to spend an hour at a laundromat once a year to save shop space as well as not piss off the Mrs.

Don't forget a refrigerator.

I will start with a mini fridge, we'll see if it is sufficient. That's all we use at my dad's and it holds enough beer to get the job done.

Not sure what type of work you plan on doing in the garage, but one of the best things I did was to run a 3/4 conduit in the slab from the panel to where I was planning on putting my table saw (which of course needs room all around). It is SO nice to NOT trip over a big cord.

This is a great idea but I'm wired a little weird, pun intended. I love free space and don't like anything fixed in the center of it. It is the number one reason I'll probably never get a lift. I will be building an outfeed table but would prefer to have a retractable power cord from the ceiling vs a fixed one in the slab. It is a great suggestion though, I love hearing everyone's ideas.

If you are mounting the windows up high to slow down thieves, consider putting in a few operating windows to let the fresh air in when the weather is nice.

Cross breeze is definitely a large concern and one I have yet to solve. I really want the windows on the ends to be operable but they are going to be about 13' off of the ground and I don't know how I would open or close them. I considered a walk out or roll up door in the back of the shop but I'd rather not give up wall space for something that would never be used other than to cross ventilate. Besides, windows are far less expensive.

I liked the side deck with roof next to the garage. I'd say make that a little bigger and have a small overhead door in addition to the "man-door". You never know how you are going to use that space - maybe you'll roll out the big grill, maybe you'll want to do some wrenching on your bike or ATV or simply sit outside to watch that big screen TV that is mounted inside on a giant swivel mount. Maybe you have a riding mower or tractor or bobcat you like to work on.

Agreed and you hit on my biggest design problem with that space, the fact that I have zero idea how or if I will use it. Right now it is 8'x20', big enough to sit on, have a beer and relax. My main house patio is only about 50' away so I'm trying to not make the shop one larger than necessary. The driveway is also only around the corner and where I'd probably do any work, I have a good canopy if shade is needed.

I'm jealous of the size you are able to build - best of luck to you!

Thank you and I know the feeling but trust me, it didn't come without a cost. When I built my father's shop, I was envious and thought never in my lifetime would I be able to own something even remotely similar. Unfortunately, my wife lost both of her parents in the last eight months. Money that was left to her has allowed us to be able to build the shop but I'd much rather be hanging out with them right now instead of planning for a garage.

 

[cosmothebagel]

On the topic of plumbing, you might want to consider a washer/dryer (or rough-in for them) as you can wash your oily clothes and shop rags there without ******* off the wife.

Don't forget a refrigerator.

This man is a genius. A dirty rag washer/dryer in the shop! You could do loads of air filters from your dirt bike!

I am also very jealous of this shop. Cant wait to have a beer on that patio

 

[NitroGarage]

Is there epoxy floor coatings that will take years of brake cleaner, gasoline spills from a fuel line or mower, diesel fuel, or gear and hydraulic oils? It looks awesome but I seem to always find photos of beautiful shops with the area under lifts and parked cars looking like hell.

 

[Greywarrior07]

Looks like your garage door is slammed to the one side, with maybe 1' off the wall? I have a buddys garage that is like that and its a pain in the ***. Pretty much eliminates that entire wall for storage or anything. However his shop was much smaller than that. But I still think it looks funny and doesnt make things look "even".. however that shop will look awesome. Cant wait to see the build.

 

[GrayFlattop]

Cross breeze is definitely a large concern and one I have yet to solve. I really want the windows on the ends to be operable but they are going to be about 13' off of the ground and I don't know how I would open or close them. I considered a walk out or roll up door in the back of the shop but I'd rather not give up wall space for something that would never be used other than to cross ventilate. Besides, windows are far less expensive.

There is a high-tech way to do this (with motor operated windows and rain sensors in case you forget to close them) or a low-tech way - a crank handle on an extension pole. You can easily use casement or hopper style windows, mount them high and have the benefit of light and ventilation.

 

[jscoggin]

Is there epoxy floor coatings that will take years of brake cleaner, gasoline spills from a fuel line or mower, diesel fuel, or gear and hydraulic oils? It looks awesome but I seem to always find photos of beautiful shops with the area under lifts and parked cars looking like hell.

Great question. I'm sure it is covered in the multitude of threads in the flooring forum but hopefully someone will respond here as well. There are so many options that it is overwhelming. I'm leaning towards keeping just bare concrete, I'd prefer fancy but can live with rustic. Size > frills.

Looks like your garage door is slammed to the one side, with maybe 1' off the wall? I have a buddys garage that is like that and its a pain in the ***. Pretty much eliminates that entire wall for storage or anything. However his shop was much smaller than that. But I still think it looks funny and doesnt make things look "even".. however that shop will look awesome. Cant wait to see the build.

This is 100% correct. My issue is that I have a 10' easement off of the fence and that puts the shop out of alignment with my house driveway which is long and narrow. I either offset the door as in the renderings and have a straight shot down the driveway and into the shop or I push the door off of the wall and have to jog through a 12' gate and angle into the shop. Neither option is ideal but my thoughts are that I'd rather drive straight in, I'm certainly willing to be persuaded otherwise.

There is a high-tech way to do this (with motor operated windows and rain sensors in case you forget to close them) or a low-tech way - a crank handle on an extension pole. You can easily use casement or hopper style windows, mount them high and have the benefit of light and ventilation.

I'll have to call my window supplier and get pricing on something like this. I'm sure they are a lot more expensive than the fixed window I was going to go with but in all reality, I only need one for on the far end of the shop. Thank you for the idea, hopefully he'll have something that will suit my criteria.

My three biggest concerns with putting in windows are security, loss of insulation properties and loss of wall space. Security shouldn't be an issue at 10' off of the ground, I'll be doing low E glass which will minimize the heat/cold and the shop is probably more than I'll ever need so losing a tiny bit of wall space high on the walls is likely a non issue. Natural light is almost priceless though so the trade offs are worth it.

 

[jscoggin]

This man is a genius. A dirty rag washer/dryer in the shop! You could loads of air filters from your dirt bike!

I am also very jealous of this shop. Cant wait to have a beer on that patio

It certainly was a great suggestion and one that I have gone back and forth on myself. Ultimately though, I don't think I'll have a big enough need to justify the cost and loss of space. I'd be better off just buying new rags every year or even soaking my existing ones in the shop sink to clean them.

A washer and dryer would be awesome but it's a luxury I can live without. Besides, no more dirt bike air filters for me, doctor's orders. I can't believe I just typed that last sentence, what a wuss.

Bring the dogs and bring the wife, you're always welcome.

 

[jscoggin]

Another issue I'm pondering is what to do with a compressor. A 60 gallon single stage is probably enough for my needs and budget but they are all very loud, I absolutely hate the noise and would love to limit it somehow.

My neighbors are relatively close so outside is a no go. I've considered building an insulated closet but I've read that heat is a big deal and it will harm the compressor. My ideal option is probably the new Eastwood scroll but at 3x the money of a new 60G, it is hard to justify. I'm also very concerned with buying into a first generation of anything.

I realize that there are many threads on the subject and that I'd probably get more responses with a dedicated thread on this but I'm trying to keep all of my questions contained here for easy reference. Y'all have given me awesome feedback so far and I'm sure this issue will be no different, thank you.

 

[tomtomgt356]

For the cross ventilation, what about putting a prop fan on the back wall? Something like the fan linked below is what I am thinking. You can mount it high on the wall to save wall space.

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Grade-Products-9800516-Ventilation/dp/B00PHLPTVC/ref=br_lf_m_n3jrq5pjuqr47cn_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&s=industrial

 

[jscoggin]

For the cross ventilation, what about putting a prop fan on the back wall? Something like the fan linked below is what I am thinking. You can mount it high on the wall to save wall space.

Those are designed to get hot air out, not let cool air in. Also, because I plan on not having a finished ceiling, it would be a major weakness in my thermal barrier. What I'm looking for is to have an opening on one end, probably a window and an opening on the other end which would be my garage door. On hot days you open both and a breeze blows through the shop pushing out the stagnant air. It makes an amazing difference on a hot and humid summer day.

The problem I'm having is with my design, the windows will be so high up that opening and closing them will be a challenge. Thankfully, Flattop has given me a couple of suggestions that hopefully should eliminate this issue.

 

[tomtomgt356]

Those are designed to get hot air out, not let cool air in. Also, because I plan on not having a finished ceiling, it would be a major weakness in my thermal barrier. What I'm looking for is to have an opening on one end, probably a window and an opening on the other end which would be my garage door. On hot days you open both and a breeze blows through the shop pushing out the stagnant air. It makes an amazing difference on a hot and humid summer day.

The problem I'm having is with my design, the windows will be so high up that opening and closing them will be a challenge. Thankfully, Flattop has given me a couple of suggestions that hopefully should eliminate this issue.

They are designed to get air out so that cool air can come in through your open garage door. A fan moves air. It doesn't care if it is hot or cold. What I am proposing is to take your "opening on one end, probably a window" and put a fan in it. That way you can pull air out of the garage allowing cooler air to enter through your garage door. This is the same concept as your open garage door/open window except you know have a fan helping move the air. With the fan you can create a breeze when there is not one.

 

[GrayFlattop]

It certainly was a great suggestion and one that I have gone back and forth on myself. Ultimately though, I don't think I'll have a big enough need to justify the cost and loss of space. I'd be better off just buying new rags every year or even soaking my existing ones in the shop sink to clean them.

A washer and dryer would be awesome but it's a luxury I can live without. Besides, no more dirt bike air filters for me, doctor's orders. I can't believe I just typed that last sentence, what a wuss.

Bring the dogs and bring the wife, you're always welcome.

You don't have to BUY the washer & dryer now, just consider that (and the shower drain) when doing the plumbing rough-in. We are literally talking about another $30-$50 in plumbing fittings. For the supply, just stub out the rough-in. A garage shower is also handy for washing off the dog!

And you can always surprise the Mrs. with a brand new washer and dryer at some point down the road - just move the old ones to the garage...

 

[jscoggin]

They are designed to get air out so that cool air can come in through your open garage door. A fan moves air. It doesn't care if it is hot or cold. What I am proposing is to take your "opening on one end, probably a window" and put a fan in it. That way you can pull air out of the garage allowing cooler air to enter through your garage door. This is the same concept as your open garage door/open window except you know have a fan helping move the air. With the fan you can create a breeze when there is not one.

That does make a lot of sense indeed. My other concern is heat loss around the unit but I suppose it won't be any worse than what my ridge vents will be allowing.

You don't have to BUY the washer & dryer now, just consider that (and the shower drain) when doing the plumbing rough-in. We are literally talking about another $30-$50 in plumbing fittings. For the supply, just stub out the rough-in. A garage shower is also handy for washing off the dog!

And you can always surprise the Mrs. with a brand new washer and dryer at some point down the road - just move the old ones to the garage...

I think you make a great point and I think I'm going to add the rough in, no downside really. Even if I never use it, there is a value add for resale.

Way ahead of you on the shower for the dogs, it will most likely be the primary use.

The Mrs. already has a new washer and dryer but I like the way you think.

 

[NitroGarage]

That does make a lot of sense indeed. My other concern is heat loss around the unit but I suppose it won't be any worse than what my ridge vents will be allowing.

Why are you going with an unfinished ceiling? I know you're in Texas but the heat in the attic space needs to be segregated for effective cooling, and vice versa in the winter.

I'm planning on a large exhaust fan in my garage ( also in planning stages) but ceiling joist mounted. To keep cool air from infiltrating through the closed louvers in the winter, a winterizing board with rubber foam gasket material will be fastened over it (underneath actually) for the 5 or 6 months we get lows under 45 or so. Same could be done on the wall mounted fan and done tastefully so it doesn't look like ****.

 

[jscoggin]

Why are you going with an unfinished ceiling? I know you're in Texas but the heat in the attic space needs to be segregated for effective cooling, and vice versa in the winter.

I'm planning on a large exhaust fan in my garage ( also in planning stages) but ceiling joist mounted. To keep cool air from infiltrating through the closed louvers in the winter, a winterizing board with rubber foam gasket material will be fastened over it (underneath actually) for the 5 or 6 months we get lows under 45 or so. Same could be done on the wall mounted fan and done tastefully so it doesn't look like ****.

A few reasons;

1.) Cost to hang, tape, bed, texture and paint.

2.) I think not having a finished ceiling makes the shop look bigger.

3.) I don't want to give critters a place to live.

4.) Ease of running new lines, lights, HVAC etc.

I am going to have the rafters enclosed with spray foam so the entire exterior of the shop will be insulated, I don't see any need for a ceiling. My father's shop is even taller, has cheap insulation, has no ceiling and I don't see any drawbacks but I'll admit, I'm anything but an energy expert.

 

[matt_i]

Initially I had planned on using them but have ruled it out. It was going to add about $1,000 and I decided I'd rather use that money to pay for more main floor square footage than for trusses that I will likely never use. It was one of the mind tricks that jumped me from 30x40 to 36x60. 'Honey I saved you money, the stuff I bought was on sale'.

Just want to point out that you are probably going to spend north of $80k to build the main 2160 sf on the ground level, and you could have probably 12' wide x 60' long = 720 additional "under roof" sq ft, for an additional $1000 plus the cost of the 3/4 T+G plywood to floor it (guessing $600)......in my mind, thats the easiest $1600 to spend. I'm using a cost of $40/sf, so @ 36' wide, your $1600 buys roughly 1 foot of additional length in the building on the ground floor.....

 

[GrayFlattop]

A few reasons;

I am going to have the rafters enclosed with spray foam so the entire exterior of the shop will be insulated, I don't see any need for a ceiling. My father's shop is even taller, has cheap insulation, has no ceiling and I don't see any drawbacks but I'll admit, I'm anything but an energy expert.

Not quite sure what sort of building codes you have to comply with, but in most jurisdictions, you are not allowed to leave spray foam exposed as it will support combustion. Generally you will have to cover it with drywall.

 

[jscoggin]

Just want to point out that you are probably going to spend north of $80k to build the main 2160 sf on the ground level, and you could have probably 12' wide x 60' long = 720 additional "under roof" sq ft, for an additional $1000 plus the cost of the 3/4 T+G plywood to floor it (guessing $600)......in my mind, thats the easiest $1600 to spend. I'm using a cost of $40/sf, so @ 36' wide, your $1600 buys roughly 1 foot of additional length in the building on the ground floor.....

I know that this is correct, It is an extremely cheap way to add more total square feet. I've done the numbers myself and it isn't that it is a dollar for dollar elimination of attic trusses to add square footage on the main floor. It is more of, eliminate attic trusses and epoxy and a second garage bay door and ...

I broke my back and neck just over two years ago, I hate stairs. I didn't love them before the accident but I do so even less now.

I'm also not a fan of out of site/mind areas. If I ever did finish and use an attic, it would just be a catch all for clutter. If my bottom floor square footage was pushing up against my needs, it would be far easier to justify but I just can't envision the day where 2,000 sqft isn't sufficient. However, it is better to have attic trusses and not need them than to need them and not have them. In that regard, I'm struggling with a hard no.

Not quite sure what sort of building codes you have to comply with, but in most jurisdictions, you are not allowed to leave spray foam exposed as it will support combustion. Generally you will have to cover it with drywall.

I will be doing all drywall and insulation after final inspection so codes won't come into play. Having said that, I still want it done the right way. I suppose I'm open to drywalling the ceiling although I'd rather not for the reasons listed in my previous post.

Interesting about the combustion though, suppose that I do no wall coverings or insulation, how are bare 2x4's not as much or more combustible than spray foam insulation? By no means am I saying that building codes are based on reason, I know full well that is often not the case.

Again, I'm anything but an expert on the subject though.

 

[larry_g]

The one big regret in my shop is that the OH door is to close to the side wall. Try to keep 3-4' from the edge of the door to the sidewall. Mine is close enough to make opening a car door tight and does not allow any storage against the wall. In your one picture you show a lift. I would at least make sure the inside of the lift upright is outside the edge of the incoming door.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[jscoggin]

The one big regret in my shop is that the OH door is to close to the side wall. Try to keep 3-4' from the edge of the door to the sidewall. Mine is close enough to make opening a car door tight and does not allow any storage against the wall. In your one picture you show a lift. I would at least make sure the inside of the lift upright is outside the edge of the incoming door.

I completely agree, unfortunately, I have fixed parameters that are forcing my hand. A jog will be required regardless, either through the gate or through the door to get off of the wall when parking. Luckily, a 16' wide door gives me plenty of room to maneuver the additional 3' once inside the shop.

 

[6768rogues]

To use standard garage door tracks and hardware the ceiling needs to be 2 feet higher than the door opening. There are low height kits available, but they never work as well. I don't think you will get a 12' door in there with a 12' ceiling.

 

[jscoggin]

To use standard garage door tracks and hardware the ceiling needs to be 2 feet higher than the door opening. There are low height kits available, but they never work as well. I don't think you will get a 12' door in there with a 12' ceiling.

Good to know, I think I'm overkill for my needs anyways but I was just considering resale. We put a 14' door on my dad's shop (16' plate) and he pulls his motor home straight in, that wouldn't be possible with a 10' door but would be with a 12', albeit tight. I'd be willing to pay more for a 12' door but not if doing so requires installing a special track that doesn't work very well.

 

[jscoggin]

Our old house closes on the 12th so I'm getting that much closer to breaking ground. I plan on finalizing the footprint and getting the foundation plans to engineering next week (city requires their sign off), applying for permits the week after and breaking ground almost immediately after permits. I'm still up in the air on a few things;

Size - I'm still at 36x56 and feel that should be sufficient but I have a nagging feeling I'll regret not going to 36x58 or even 36x60. The only drawback is upfront cost which is a big one. I realize that asking garage junkies their opinion on this is likely to get a near unanimous opinion of 'go bigger' but so be it.

Plumbing - I started with a shop sink and a toilet and I have been convinced in this thread to put in a shower/dog wash and a rough in for washer/dryer. Great suggestions and I'm happy they were made. I'm now trying to decide what to do about hot water. We are electric only and the demand for hot water will be almost never. That leads me towards tankless but they aren't cheap and the electric versions aren't great in my experience.

Walls - I've flip flopped between OSB and drywall more times than I can count. Drywall looks better and is more fire resistant. OSB is stronger, easier to replace or pull down if needed and is easier to hang things on.

Garage door - It was suggested that I go to an 18x10 vs the 16x10 I was originally planning. The cost is only $250 more so I think that is the direction I'm going to go. That's a pretty big door though, any cons?

Pretty sure that's it. I'm beyond excited and ready to get going.

 

[jscoggin]

I just got approval for my permit and Digtess has been scheduled. Knock on wood, I'll be trenching this weekend in the 110 degree Texas heat. My plan is still to run a conduit with a coax line and two cat 6 lines, I'll probably add a pull string or two as well just in case future technology will need something else. Is there anything else I should be running to a detached shop while I have an open trench?

 

[gnpenning]

Put a couple extra pipes in the ground for future technology. You may not be able to run them all in the same conduit due to interference? Also run conduit under the slab to the other side or places you want power. You can junction to smaller circuits from there.

I think you will be happier with the wider door. You could even go to 20' wide.

Consider double cord trusses for say the front half then maybe attic trusses for the back half or what ever ratio you want. The double cord would give you height and if done right would give you height for a taller garage door with out going to higher side walls. You can get them made to carry a beam for a trolley if that is something you may want.

I'm with you on the few dollars different between a 125 amp service and 200 why would someone go with the 125 amp. Never limit yourself for a few dollars.

Drains and water lines a cheap and easy now. Even if you never use it. I just introduced 2 friends. One looking to buy one looking to sell. The building was plumbed for a bathroom that was never installed going on 20 years. For The potential buyer it is a must have. He wouldn't be looking at it without the option for toilet, sink, washer, shower. You never know down the road.

I had high windows in my last place that cranked open from the ground. It really helps dump the heat out.

Good luck on your new shop.

 

[jscoggin]

Put a couple extra pipes in the ground for future technology. You may not be able to run them all in the same conduit due to interference? Also run conduit under the slab to the other side or places you want power. You can junction to smaller circuits from there.

After talking to my plumber and electrician, my plan is to dig one trench for everything. The electrician wants to have 1' of separation which is fine. I'll dig a 3' trench, put electrical in the bottom, fill in 1' of soil and do plumbing above. I can run coax and two cat 6 in one conduit at time of install and run another conduit or two with pull lines in them for future expansion/tech.

I think you will be happier with the wider door. You could even go to 20' wide.

I completely agree on the wider door. My guy quoted me a difference of only $250 to go to an 18' which I think is a no brainer. I've considered 20' but don't want to lose any more wall space. I'm still up in the air but leaning 18'.

Consider double cord trusses for say the front half then maybe attic trusses for the back half or what ever ratio you want. The double cord would give you height and if done right would give you height for a taller garage door with out going to higher side walls. You can get them made to carry a beam for a trolley if that is something you may want.

I've never heard of double cord trusses, I'll look into them. I'd love to do a 12' tall door. Even better would be a 14' for possible future RV storage but that would add huge expense, mostly due to the necessity of the brick exterior.

I'm with you on the few dollars different between a 125 amp service and 200 why would someone go with the 125 amp. Never limit yourself for a few dollars.

Agreed. Will I ever need 200 amp? Highly doubtful but the panel was a whopping $25 more than the 125 amp and the wiring may add a couple of hundred. I'd rather have more than I need than less. Even so, I've hedged my bets, I've got both sitting in my current garage while I waffle back and forth. I'll discuss it with my electrician when he comes to install it.

Drains and water lines a cheap and easy now. Even if you never use it. I just introduced 2 friends. One looking to buy one looking to sell. The building was plumbed for a bathroom that was never installed going on 20 years. For The potential buyer it is a must have. He wouldn't be looking at it without the option for toilet, sink, washer, shower. You never know down the road.

Absolutely. I started this with only a sink and toilet in the plan but thanks to the great advice in this thread, I'll now be plumbing in a shower and washer/dryer as well. It is a small up front expense, a small loss of shop space but a huge value add for us or potential resale down the road.

This is especially true now that my wife has talked me into a pool. Much better to have wet teenagers traipsing through the shop to go to the bathroom than through the house.

I had high windows in my last place that cranked open from the ground. It really helps dump the heat out.

Good luck on your new shop.

I think these type of windows are exactly what I'll be going with.

Thank you so much for the advice and kind words. It's funny, I design and sell construction projects for a living (mostly outdoor living) and never realized how much harder it would be to do it for myself.

 

[gnpenning]

It's nice to have other eyes and minds to bounce ideas off.

Interesting this came up. The guy I told you that is selling, I was just there dropping off my scissor lift. He is a HVAC guy and hooked everything up for me in my current home. I'm looking to sell and was bouncing ideas off him for my next place. He gave me some great feedback. I like bouncing things off friends in the trade and reading here. I learn something new everyday.

 

[cs80]

The plans look great, will be a dream shop.
As for the different capacity panel decisions, for me it was about wire gauge. i was at the home store looking at the wire i would have needed for 200 amp service and wondering if i was looking at rebar by mistake. even 125 amp is crazy thick. i ended up going with an 80 amp subpanel to make it easier and significantly cheaper, besides the wire the main breaker fuses are pretty expensive for larger service too, but on hindsight I might have been better with 100 amp.