To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Finally- 3 phase power

MushCreek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9,833
Location
Upstate South Carolina
I can't get 'true' 3 phase out here in the boonies. After trying out a VFD, I wasn't that impressed, so set about to get/build a rotary phase converter.

I was stalled until I picked up a 10 hp, 3 phase Baldor at auction- for $25! I sort of tested it on single phase, and it ran good. I even hooked it up temporarily, and it powered my mill just fine. I then invested in an American Rotary panel to operate the whole thing.

This week, I hooked it all up, and it works great. The best thing is that the mill will now instant reverse, important when you're power tapping. The VFD was very slow by comparison. The mill feels like it's running on true 3 phase. The worst part of the job was stringing wire across the shop to where the machines are. I put the RPC panel right next to the breaker panel, as it takes big (#6 AWG) wire to feed the panel. I then ran a single 30A circuit over to the mill. I'll put a couple other drops in as needed. I was going to wire a 3 phase panel, but really don't think I'll ever need it. At my age and ambition, I don't see running multiple machines anyhow.

The American Rotary unit seems to be well built, with a battery of beer can-sized capacitors to start and balance the load. It sticks out quite a ways, and can't really be recessed into the wall. I did recess it about 2". All of the K/O's are in the bottom. My wiring is all overhead, so I wish there were K/O's in the top, but then they'd be in the way of the caps. I added a circuit breaker to the DIN 35 rail in the cabinet (at the bottom). I picked one up cheap on ebay; a lot cheaper than buying a 3 ph panel and breakers.

The unit runs great. The 10 hp idler is quiet, although it is louder when there's no load. Apparently, additional 3 ph motors smooth things out when running. You push the 'Start' button, the idler kicks on, and you're good to go.

In the pics, I have the idler stuffed into a corner where the spinning shaft won't bother anyone other than the spiders. For drops, I have 10/4 SO cord with twist-lock plugs on them. I just dropped one for now; eventually, there will be 3 or 4. These are much cheaper on ebay. Places like Home Depot want a LOT of money for them!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20191011_122903635.jpg
    IMG_20191011_122903635.jpg
    134.2 KB · Views: 140
  • IMG_20191011_122920372.jpg
    IMG_20191011_122920372.jpg
    149.1 KB · Views: 153
  • IMG_20191011_123442274.jpg
    IMG_20191011_123442274.jpg
    98.7 KB · Views: 136
  • IMG_20191011_134119236.jpg
    IMG_20191011_134119236.jpg
    149.2 KB · Views: 136
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dagofast

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
411
Location
The QC in AZ
I have an American Rotary ADX10. You can flip the base unit upside down so the knockouts are on the top side. The cover still mounts right side up. I called AR first to make sure it didn't void the warranty before I did it and they said no problem-o.

Congrats on having 3 phase! Ain't it nice?
 

dr_clyde

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
6,466
Location
Holland, MI
I’ve heard good things about American Rotary stuff. You’ll never want to go back.

I couldn’t operate without 3 phase. It’s just required if you do work with real machine tools.

My new shop has 400 amps of 480v delta and I can’t wait to move and get everything hooked up.
 

jabberwoki

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,477
Location
puyallup wa usa
Don`t forget the plethora of wonderful old quality built machines that you can grab for a song and enjoy there're use.

3 phase is da bomb.
 
OP
M

MushCreek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9,833
Location
Upstate South Carolina
Duh- It never occurred to me to mount the unit upside down. Oh well; it's all wired up now. As for equipment, I have the mill and a surface grinder. My lathe has a single phase motor (not original), but I have a 3 hp 3 ph I might put in it. I'm looking for a better lathe; mine is a Summit from the 1970's. It is built well, but there are a lot of things I don't like, such as an oddball spindle thread and an oddball tool post built into the compound slide. There's no provision for collets, and the spindle bore is too small for 5c collets if I made an adapter sleeve.
 

dutchgray

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
6,469
Location
Dorset. England.
Please make a cover for the idler spindle, or cage the whole motor, it may be safely tucked away in the corner but that wont stop it wrapping up a length of string or an extension cord that ever falls in there.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

matt_i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
10,753
Location
SE Michigan
Congrats. The thing I've always done is to make sure the Ground is always a real copper wire going back to the main panel thru various connections and terminations. Don't want to make a mistake somewhere or a wire get rubbed thru and have metal parts sitting there energized....

Better to blow a fuse. The ground integrity makes sure that's possible.
 
OP
M

MushCreek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9,833
Location
Upstate South Carolina
Please make a cover for the idler spindle, or cage the whole motor, it may be safely tucked away in the corner but that wont stop it wrapping up a length of string or an extension cord that ever falls in there.

I really should just cut the shaft off. A) I don't see ever having the need for a 10 hp , 3 ph motor, and B) I only paid $25 for it.
 

isb cornbinder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
7,073
Location
Pacific South West, BC, Canada
About a month ago, I bought a 20 horsepower American Rotary PC. I mounted it on a cart so I can move the PC to the machine. This was my best option when I considered my situation now and the future.
The customer service has been fantastic. The shipping company, not so much. The shipment was lost for three days, found and arrived in two deliveries are week apart.
I have missed out on good deals on 3 phase machines because I didn't have the right power supply.
I bought a perfect 3 phase machine then the American Rotary 20 after.
I have no regrets. I was inspired by Keith Rucker of Vintage Machinery.
 

VocaTexas

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
808
I was going to buy an American Rotary RPC, but I came across a Temco 40 hp phase converter at an auction. It's nearly new and in great condition. I can't wait to get my shop finished and power up my machines with it. I'm just a bit worried about the power bill when I get running!
 

Packard V8

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
7,380
Location
Spokane, WA
Congrats on designing and installing the setup which works best for you. X2 in that 3-phase power is a necessity.

The best thing is that the mill will now instant reverse, important when you're power tapping. The VFD was very slow by comparison.
The main problem I've found with VFD is they're sometimes just too complicated for the old guy (me). We were having a problem adapting a smaller TECO to an old power hacksaw. Finally, my partner remembered the son of a friend who worked with that sort of stuff. He drilled down through three or four layers of programming and found the one command which needed changing for this application. We'd never have gotten there without him.

As to reversing, that and the soft start functions are usually programmable in VFDs. They're used everywhere in today's production settings where speed is money. I just helped set up one on a auto machine shop Tobin-Arp seat and guide machine.

jack vines
 
OP
M

MushCreek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9,833
Location
Upstate South Carolina
The problem (for me) with VFD's is that it needs to be set-up for a particular machine. I envision having at least 4 machines with 3 ph power. It was cheaper for me to get the RPC stuff together than buy 4 VFD's. I don't feel comfortable fooling around with programming the thing, either. I could see using it on my surface grinder, as the soft start would help keep the wheel from slipping on start-up.

I know that the VFD can be programmed for faster reversing, but it's still several seconds instead of nearly instantaneous. Overdo it, and you let the magic smoke out of the VFD.
 

bsaint

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
5,109
Location
Manchester, CT
VFD aren't really that great for motors that aren't designed to run on 3khz and up carrier signal that VFD's supply. That's why there is inverted rated motors. Its also why inverters give motors that terrible high pitch sound.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom