FINALLY! Dewalt Launches 12V Tools

[Stuey]

Read about it on ToolGuyd!

I posted a teaser pic on TG and should be able to take much better photos tomorrow.

Some of the fancy shmancy features that have me excited over the new line:

1/4" hex tools have one-handed bit insertion
1/4" hex chucks accepts 1" insert bits
The tools are well balanced and STAND UP, something Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and others' compact 12V tools can't do.

The LED worklight was surprisingly bright, and the head pivots in all directions.

Edit: Here is a my more formal preview of the 12V MAX product line.

I also described my visit to B&D/Dewalt in excrutiating detail. There's a pretty nice photo gallery at the bottom of that post that you may want to check out.

 

[hedjhawg]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66432

 

[Stuey]

lol, no.

I'll show the Dewalt reps that photo tomorrow and ask for an ETA.

 

[cronic]

Are the new 12 volt Li-Ion batteries backward compatible with older 12v DeWalt products like the 18v line is?

 

[Stuey]

Are the new 12 volt Li-Ion batteries backward compatible with older 12v DeWalt products like the 18v line is?

No, they're not. The previous NiCad 12V battery had a stem that was inserted into tools' handles. The new Li-Ion 12V batteries are actually 10.8V nominal packs, and they slide into the tools' bases.

I was told that there were quite a few iterations before the final battery pack design was settled upon.

 

[bchee]

ha ha free can of MGD included with every tool purchase

 

[iandh]

Looks nice... but the worklight would have to be pretty damn impressive to beat my Milwaukee M12 LED worklight. It's the best worklight I've EVER used.

It has nothing to do with brightness, either... it's the lens spread. They got it perfect, beam not too narrow, not too wide, and great uniformity. It's truly a pleasure to use.


I'm not saying it's not better, just that it'd have to be really damn good.

 

[Bolster]

The tools are well balanced and STAND UP, something Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and others' compact 12V tools can't do.

As a footnote, these new Dewalts are similar to the Hitachi in design...which is how I think a 12V SHOULD be designed...should stand up (like the Hitachi) and have the bulk of the battery BELOW the grip. Don't like those fat-grip 12V (really 10.8V) designs. Bravo, DeWalt!

 

[FNFS2000]

finally? someone was waiting for a cheapo black and decker remodel? Did they follow Milwaukee and go even more cheapo to china?

 

[Stuey]

In addition to being able to stand upright, the tools have rubber bumpers on their sides and removable belt clips.

The LED worklight has a 130 lumen diode (need to confirm this later), and has a very decent reflector. I'm not a fan of the tool's shape, but I really like its pivot options and beam throw. The beam has a very narrow hot spot, but also projects a nice sized diffuse beam around it.

 

[Bigpigdave]

finally? someone was waiting for a cheapo black and decker remodel? Did they follow Milwaukee and go even more cheapo to china?

The Milwaukee M12 series may be "cheapo" and "Chinese" but I have found the models I own to be very good quality and some of my most used cordless tools. I have owned the M12 1/4" impact driver since Oct. 2008 and have nothing but praise, I also own the Hackzall. Both are great. I hope the Dewalt tools are as useful but one of the things I like about the M12 series is their small size, I would not like the extra bulk in the battery pack.

 

[musgofasta]

I'll keep my Makita 10.8's. Even though both are hex quick-release.

 

[jake26]

I just purchased the Dewalt 18V 720 drill so my tool buying is on hold. Nice set though!

 

[Bolster]

Well, good question:

What is COO?

 

[Dan0myte]

I'll keep my Makita 10.8's. Even though both are hex quick-release.

Same here! Light weight and quality construction. Great products.

 

[MattT]

The tools are well balanced and STAND UP, something Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Ridgid, and others' compact 12V tools can't do.

IMO not having a bulky battery hanging off the handle is an advantage for wrenching. For construction stand up would probably be better. FWIW Milwaukee also has a high cap flat bottomed battery. http://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...-11-2402&CategoryName=SC:+M12+Cordless+System

finally? someone was waiting for a cheapo black and decker remodel? Did they follow Milwaukee and go even more cheapo to china?

Dunno how you can equate any premium brand with B&D There's nothing "cheap" about my chinese Milwaukee V18 tools. Or my chinese Bosch and Makitas. The only power tool I own that's made where it's supposed to be is a Bosch grinder. Unfortunately we're pretty much stuck with buying chinese power tools these days

 

[speed bump]

Well, good question:

What is COO?

Country Of Origin

Personally I could care less that Dewalt is releasing new 12v tools, if they are the **** that most of the rest of their products are no point in paying extra for yellow instead of orange. I also know the Bosch tools will hold up I don't feel like gambling on Dewalts.

 

[FNFS2000]

IMO not having a bulky battery hanging off the handle is an advantage for wrenching. For construction stand up would probably be better. FWIW Milwaukee also has a high cap flat bottomed battery. http://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...-11-2402&CategoryName=SC:+M12+Cordless+System



Dunno how you can equate any premium brand with B&D There's nothing "cheap" about my chinese Milwaukee V18 tools. Or my chinese Bosch and Makitas. The only power tool I own that's made where it's supposed to be is a Bosch grinder. Unfortunately we're pretty much stuck with buying chinese power tools these days

Dewalt is yellow black and decker... Dewalt has not been a quality tool for decades, whoever has done marketing for them the last 10-15 should be a millionaire. Anyone who can take a mediocre line of stuff and make it one of the most acceptable tools on construction sites should be well rewarded.

 

[Burgerkong]

Country Of Origin

Personally I could care less that Dewalt is releasing new 12v tools, if they are the **** that most of the rest of their products are no point in paying extra for yellow instead of orange. I also know the Bosch tools will hold up I don't feel like gambling on Dewalts.

I think he meant what is the COO of the Dewalts.

 

[FNFS2000]

I would bet they moved from Mexico to China.

 

[Bolster]

I think he meant what is the COO of the Dewalts.

Yes, that's what I meant to ask.

I'd MUCH rather Mex than Chi.

 

[mdoolittle]

I have purchase quite a bit of the "black and yellow". I have noticed everything purchased in the last year and a half is China. I guess they found someone cheaper than Mexico. I have also noticed inconsistencies in the yellows from tool to tool.

 

[Stuey]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66432

I showed the pic to one of the project managers, and he's already seen it. One of the PR gals got a good laugh out of it though.

ha ha free can of MGD included with every tool purchase

Yes, but that was a limited time promotion that ended yesterday!

I'm not saying it's not better, just that it'd have to be really damn good.

Tried out a few competitors' lights today. I remember there being a Bosch and Makita, and there probably was a Milwaukee, but I didn't check it out.

Don't like those fat-grip 12V (really 10.8V) designs. Bravo, DeWalt!

Apparently the specific handle design is patent pending. Had a chance to see a few of the many prototype geometries.

The new handle is quite ergonomic!

Well, good question:

What is COO?

I checked earlier and remember it saying "China" but it was a long day. Will find out later. One thing that I noted was that the quality was superb.

FWIW Milwaukee also has a high cap flat bottomed battery.

They say that the battery is on the bottom to help the tool stand up more securely, and while that may be true, I think that the geometry's ergonomic advantages are more significant.

Personally I could care less that Dewalt is releasing new 12v tools, if they are the **** that most of the rest of their products are no point in paying extra for yellow instead of orange. I also know the Bosch tools will hold up I don't feel like gambling on Dewalts.

I compared the performance of the new Dewalt demo tools with Bosch ones that were nearby, and I'm still torn as to which I'd reach for. They both have a lot of pluses. I'm going to need to do some tests in an uncontrolled setting before I'll be able to make up my mind.

 

[Monte]

The Dewalt tools look quite large !?? How do they compare to the new Bosch drills/drivers ?? (length/height)

 

[jake26]

Dewalt is yellow black and decker... Dewalt has not been a quality tool for decades, whoever has done marketing for them the last 10-15 should be a millionaire. Anyone who can take a mediocre line of stuff and make it one of the most acceptable tools on construction sites should be well rewarded.

Last month, I had been looking for a new drill and I did allot of research from user groups to professional reviews and consumer reviews. There were brand fanboys and haters but overall, I found Dewalt to be well reviewed. Check out this site on drill reviews and you will see Dewalts performed better than most.

http://www.cordless-drill-reviews.com/18v-cordless-drill.html

 

[Stuey]

I don't think those are reviews, they seem to be comparisons based on manufacturer provides specs and 2nd hand Amazon.com reviews. Still a very decent comparison, but I checked a few models and didn't see any real world comparisons going on.

Size-wise, the Dewalts are actually comparable to the compact Bosch tools. The Dewalt's bottom battery makes the tool look a lot taller than it is. That said, Dewalt stressed that it wasn't looking to make the smallest tool, and focused heavily on user comfort. I REALLY liked the balance of weight their handles and geometries provided.

 

[FNFS2000]

its just a stupid advertising site made up by some teenager raking in commision everytime someone buys -anything- after clicking on one of those scamazon links.

 

[Bolster]

I'm going to need to do some tests in an uncontrolled setting before I'll be able to make up my mind.

I'd love to watch you make your uncontrolled tests!

Just funnin you. Know what you meant.

 

[Stuey]

its just a stupid advertising site made up by some teenager raking in commision everytime someone buys -anything- after clicking on one of those scamazon links.

Yep, that's why I dismiss anything there as a "review". But, the comparison may be useful for those that can't be bothered to do 2 minutes of googling.

There are worse offenders, such as those that promote their tool "price comparison" services. It's not a price comparison when all you have are affiliate links with "check prices" links.

I'd love to watch you make your uncontrolled tests!

Just funnin you. Know what you meant.

haha, I know.

Still, being told to "try this" with a competitor's tool and then one of the new tools, while definitely informative, cannot be considered independent or objective. I have a feeling that the team members at the tool demos knew the weeknesses of competing tools.

Two drill/drivers from competitors kept stalling out when really pushing spade bits into wood. The Dewalt absolutely hauled. While no doubt this is a plus for the Dewalt, I don't think it was a lack of power on the part of the competitors' tools. I believe that at least one of those competing tools has current overload protection in the battery that shuts the tool down if it's being over-torqued.

 

[iandh]

The Milwaukee M12 series may be "cheapo" and "Chinese" but I have found the models I own to be very good quality and some of my most used cordless tools. I have owned the M12 1/4" impact driver since Oct. 2008 and have nothing but praise, I also own the Hackzall. Both are great. I hope the Dewalt tools are as useful but one of the things I like about the M12 series is their small size, I would not like the extra bulk in the battery pack.

I think my M12 stuff is awesome... solid, great battery life, compact, plenty of torque as well as plenty of RPM (on the chuck drill), I'm thoroughly happy with all of it.


Honestly I was always a Bosch guy, but I didn't like Bosch's 12V offering for a compact drill.

At my old work, the Bosch was the only Cordless drill that survived being used by me for more than 2 years. ALL other brands died before that.

 

[Stuey]

I think my M12 stuff is awesome... solid, great battery life, compact, plenty of torque as well as plenty of RPM (on the chuck drill), I'm thoroughly happy with all of it.


Honestly I was always a Bosch guy, but I didn't like Bosch's 12V offering for a compact drill.

At my old work, the Bosch was the only Cordless drill that survived being used by me for more than 2 years. ALL other brands died before that.

There was an M12 drill available for comparison testing, and it stalled out and just embarrassed itself when really pushed into wood with a 1/2" spade bit. Or at least that's how it looked. I know that some other M12s have current-overload protection, and think that this is what was kicking in when abusing the tool past its limits. I still have a right angle M12 drill in my possession, and it's a very, very decently performing tool.

Dewalt's offering felt much more ergonomic and balanced compared to the M12 drill, but I'm not forgetting that the M12 drill is a 1st-generation design.

I bet that you're the type of user that companies would love to send engineering samples out to for testing!

 

[jake26]

The Dewalt owners group is a pretty cool comparrisons because they show the drills from the inside out, explain the heatsinks, chucks and battery makeup.

http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0b5674879902d1b1631b2a20e929e97d&board=3.0

Of course there will be some biased opinions but it is a nice resource.

One thing I have found is that normally, people like what they have. I am sure that if I choose to buy the Milwaukee 2601-22 drill, I would have been equally as happy as I am with my Dewalt 720. Maybee

 

[Coptool]

Here is a pic that went up yesterday from the trusty camera phone http://twitpic.com/1zk7f6 plenty more good ones coming soon as well as plenty from Stuey I'm sure.

You can see in the pic the size is a little taller with batteries at bottom but weight is fairly similar across the board. By the end of today I have a sneaky suspicion there will be tons of info up on these.

 

[Stuey]

Here is a pic that went up yesterday from the trusty camera phone http://twitpic.com/1zk7f6 plenty more good ones coming soon as well as plenty from Stuey I'm sure.

You can see in the pic the size is a little taller with batteries at bottom but weight is fairly similar across the board. By the end of today I have a sneaky suspicion there will be tons of info up on these.

That's a great comparison pic!

Unfortunately, I wasn't as trigger happy as I would normally be, both b/c I was really wired up, and I had my wife's point and shoot and neither of my [larger, bulkier] cameras.

I've posted up a small gallery of photos of the facility and a few of the tools, and a few more will make it into the separate tool preview posts that will come shortly.

Stuey visits B&D and Dewalt

The batteries of my promo screwdriver are already fired up and ready to go for some weekend testing!

 

[jake26]

Nice writup Stuey. Many fellow GJers slam Dewalt for being a B&D product but it sounds as if they produced another quality product.

 

[Stuey]

Nice writup Stuey. Many fellow GJers slam Dewalt for being a B&D product but it sounds as if they produced another quality product.

Thanks!

I updated the first post of the thread with a few more links. I spent some time last night and this morning putting together a more detailed preview post, and an overview of my time at Black & Decker University.

There's also about a 12 pic gallery of BDU's Dewalt training facility as well.

 

[IndyGarage]

so those look just like what Panasonic was selling 10 years ago.

The advantage of the bosch and Milwaukee 12V's is that they are truly a more compact size, while still having enough power to get may jobs done. The newest bosch driver is even smaller still.

 

[Stuey]

so those look just like what Panasonic was selling 10 years ago.

The advantage of the bosch and Milwaukee 12V's is that they are truly a more compact size, while still having enough power to get may jobs done. The newest bosch driver is even smaller still.

Regardless of how they may look, they are truly smaller than the conventional 12V NiCad tools that came before the 12V Li-ion bust.

The Dewalt guys passed around the new 12V and the old 12V, and there was a substantial size and weight difference.

I haven't made up my mind yet as to which I prefer more, but size wise the Dewalt and Bosch have completely different advantages.

 

[walrus]

IMO not having a bulky battery hanging off the handle is an advantage for wrenching. For construction stand up would probably be better. FWIW Milwaukee also has a high cap flat bottomed battery. http://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...-11-2402&CategoryName=SC:+M12+Cordless+System:

I've got one XC battery, it rules.Plan on getting one or 2 more. So far I have 90 degree drill, 3/8 chuck drill, Impact and 1/4 driver plus I bought the 12V grease gun. Miwaukees stuff works

 

[iandh]

There was an M12 drill available for comparison testing, and it stalled out and just embarrassed itself when really pushed into wood with a 1/2" spade bit. Or at least that's how it looked. I know that some other M12s have current-overload protection, and think that this is what was kicking in when abusing the tool past its limits. I still have a right angle M12 drill in my possession, and it's a very, very decently performing tool.

Dewalt's offering felt much more ergonomic and balanced compared to the M12 drill, but I'm not forgetting that the M12 drill is a 1st-generation design.

I bet that you're the type of user that companies would love to send engineering samples out to for testing!

There's gotta be something wrong with the sample you're using then, because mine has a crazy amount of torque... that was one of the first things I noticed about it when I got it.

I recently used mine to wire a guest room we're remodeling and I shot holes through 2x4's with a 5/8 bit all day.


We're talking about the chuck drill, right, not the 1/4 hex bit driver?



I will say though, if the cordless impact can hold its own, I may consider switching to the DeWalt line. The M12 impact is pretty much only good for light assembly and wood screws and such. It couldn't break loose a bolt to save it's life.



FYI the Dewalt were second place to the Bosch as far as me destroying them. The Dewalt lasted almost two years. Ryobi, Hitachi, all dead. This was about five years back so I don't know how the current lines compare.