Finally ready to buy a welder...help!

[dmw16]

I've been thinking of buying a welder for about 8 months now. I went back and forth with regards to would I use it, did I have the space, etc. I've finally convinced myself it's worth it to go ahead.

So I (think I) have narrowed my choices down to:
1. Hobart Handler 140 (~$450)
2. Miller 141 (~$675)

The projects I'd like to tackle are:
1. Welding some rusted floors in the truck of my race car,
2. Welding tabs onto the roll cage for window nets and center nets,
3. building shelves, carts, etc.
4. building little brackets and such
4. Building a basic exhaust (maybe?)

I had actually purchased a Miller 211 last summer but decided it was too much money so it went back. I do have 220V in my garage but none of the multivoltage ones are in my budget.

I'm not sure that the Miller gives me anything the Hobart doesn't for what I want to do and at 50% more. The Miller supports a spool gun and the Hobart doesn't, but 1) I don't have plans to weld aluminum and 2) I don't think the Miller really has the power to do good aluminum welds anyway.

A few guys I know that I race with have suggested an Eastwood 135 ($250) but I worry it's a cheap POS.

I'd also like to avoid exceeding the cost of the Miller 141, but I am open to other options at or below that price point. I want to skip used welders for now (unless they are refurb from a known vendor); I'm not comfortable buying a device I have no background in from Craigslist.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jimgood]

I have a Hobart 140 and I can tell you it is capable of doing everything you listed with no issues. I use mine only for Flux Core welding but I'm sure it will do just as well with MIG.

 

[MarkG]

I have a Hobart 140 and I can tell you it is capable of doing everything you listed with no issues. I use mine only for Flux Core welding but I'm sure it will do just as well with MIG.

Yep! I owned one too and confirm this! Only recently sold it because I needed the $$$ more than the welder. However, if at some point in the future I buy another, I would get a more powerful one. Maybe a 211 or similar.

I used my 140 with both flux core and gas and it ran great with both. None of the metal you listed for your projects would likely be any thicker than anything in the cart pictured and I still had a couple heat settings left in reserve.

 

[crkleve]

I might suggest checking out factory refurbished Lincoln welders? I purchased one a couple years ago and couldn't be happier. I really like the 10' ground and welding leads for real world welding (IMO).

They come with a new factory warranty and are excellent welders for a fair price.

http://store.lincolnelectric.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/leesite/equipment/mig-welders/sp-180t-mig-welder-p-u2689-2

 

[sberry]

You should have hung with it and kept the first one you had, the remorse would have soon passed.

 

[rsanter]

Go back and get that 211, that's the best bang for the buck machine going now and you are not likly to outgrow it anytime soon

Bob

 

[SteveH-CO]

If you're like the rest of us, your list of 5 projects will grow considerably. Don't buy too little welder, and get a 220v with gas. I bought a used welder from a lady who welded professionally and no longer needed a home welder. Paid $550 for about $1400 worth of welder, and it had a few hours on it. I know what you're saying, but don't discount all used welders - some don't see much run time.

 

[dmw16]

Thanks guys!

I'll check the refurb ones. Probably should have hung with the 211 but oh well. Probably can't see the wife on one that expensive. I've been approved up to $700 so I'm trying to go lightly. It's bad enough I bought and built a race car in our 1 car. And didn't really ask first. So...

But I digress. Id love to hear any and all feedback but the Hobart sounds the top contender.

 

[dmw16]

What about this one? Sits price wise between a new Hobart and new Miller.

http://store.lincolnelectric.com/we...ment/mig-welders/sp-140t-mig-welder-p-u2688-3

 

[CGT80]

Did you return the 211 because of you or because of your wife?

I agree that you made a mistake. The good part is that the new 211 is much nicer than the old one and they have a $200 rebate on them right now.

I have the new 211 and it would work for the jobs that many pros do, but of course at a lower duty cycle than the big machines. It is a great intermediate welder that you would not outgrow.

My old welder is a miller 135. That machine has been used a lot and it can lay some nice beads, but...............I wish I could have afforded to go bigger and waited too long to go bigger, but am glad I waited until after the 211 inverter came out.

Miller has infinite voltage controls where the hobart may have taps/notches, which means less adjustment than the Miller. You will want to run 75% argon/25% co2 gas with whatever you get. Flux core ***** and co2 has more splatter. The miller never had a problem with overheating with long periods of welding. The dirt cheap welders often have issues with duty cycle.

 

[dmw16]

I returned the 211 because it was more than I really should spend on a hobby machine. And it still is. So that's not really an option.

Also should mention I'll be using stargon or c25.

 

[jomobco]

I've got an HTP welder which has been fantastic and priced competitively. I will also vouch for their plasma cutters.

 

[fury9]

I have a Hobart 187 I got used in really good shape on CL for about 350. I added the gas to it. I am really happy with it. I would look for a 220v machine if it's an option, but if not you will do good with the 140

 

[pepi]

You should have hung with it and kept the first one you had, the remorse would have soon passed.

Very true, you can always turn down the heat; I agree bad choice on that decision

 

[dmw16]

Neither the Miller or Hobart will give me aluminum capabilities right? I know the Miller can take a spool gun but in the real world does it have enough power?

 

[BD1]

IF the 211 and rebates are STILL TOO much, you better buy this HOBART 210 MVP NOW !!!!!!
Get approval for another $100.00 http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678611-hobart-handler-210mvp-mig-welder.html

This is the lowest price around. Don't blow it again. You will NEVER have too much machine.
Hobart Handler 210MVP MIG Welder
Blain # 678611 | Mfr # 500553

★★★★★
★★★★★ 4.9 out of 5 stars. Read reviews.
4.9

$894.99
Sale $794.99 through 12/13/2015

 

[383 240z]

If you want a spool gun and a great machine look at the Hobart 190.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...e-Z0Ov8kS9-S0Y36bacU0-OnmyMb6qyY6gaAgFn8P8HAQ

I have the H 187, same machine but without the spool gun support, I was going to sell the 187 and get a 190. That was until my Alphatig 200x TIG machine got here. With that, I can do Chro-Mo, stainless and aluminum.

The 187 was a very nice soft arc, and a pretty wide sweet spot. Very nice control down to .025" sheet, up to 5/16" plate. Spec sheet says its a 30% duty cycle at 130 amps. I've run this machine pretty hard in my shop, and has never hit the high limit on the duty cycle.

 

[sberry]

Yup, 800 and a super unit. I actually like taps better than variable.. show wife thread. This is a value.

 

[dmw16]

IF the 211 and rebates are STILL TOO much, you better buy this HOBART 210 MVP NOW !!!!!!
Get approval for another $100.00 http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678611-hobart-handler-210mvp-mig-welder.html

This is the lowest price around. Don't blow it again. You will NEVER have too much machine.
Hobart Handler 210MVP MIG Welder
Blain # 678611 | Mfr # 500553

★★★★★
★★★★★ 4.9 out of 5 stars. Read reviews.
4.9

$894.99
Sale $794.99 through 12/13/2015

It's really more than I want to spend. She'd probably ok it but I don't wan to spend that much. The price of the Miller 141 is my hard cap. Sounds like the 140 is the answer with that constraint.

Not saying other options aren't better values or better machines. But this is how I always spend too much. $200...well $450 is only $250 more...then another another $150 to get to a $600 whatever. Next thing I know I set out to spend $200 and spend $1000. It's not a good trait.

 

[ilikedirt]

I have a 140 as well...love it! One day I will need a larger welder but so far it has been great. Just a couple weeks ago I made the switch to MIG. It is worth it!!

 

[trackwelder]

Did you return the 211 because of you or because of your wife?

I agree that you made a mistake. The good part is that the new 211 is much nicer than the old one and they have a $200 rebate on them right now.

I have the new 211 and it would work for the jobs that many pros do, but of course at a lower duty cycle than the big machines. It is a great intermediate welder that you would not outgrow.

My old welder is a miller 135. That machine has been used a lot and it can lay some nice beads, but...............I wish I could have afforded to go bigger and waited too long to go bigger, but am glad I waited until after the 211 inverter came out.

Miller has infinite voltage controls where the hobart may have taps/notches, which means less adjustment than the Miller. You will want to run 75% argon/25% co2 gas with whatever you get. Flux core ***** and co2 has more splatter. The miller never had a problem with overheating with long periods of welding. The dirt cheap welders often have issues with duty cycle.

There is nothing wrong with flux core or co2 in a decent machine. Most issues come from inexperience or trying to burn it through an inadequate welder.

 

[brownbagg]

i got a miller 140 and it *****, not enough azz to weld anything but beer cans, Im going throw the switch on a hobart 230 in a couple days

 

[trackwelder]

i got a miller 140 and it *****, not enough azz to weld anything but beer cans, Im going throw the switch on a hobart 230 in a couple days

Good choice!!!!

 

[dmw16]

There is nothing wrong with flux core or co2 in a decent machine. Most issues come from inexperience or trying to burn it through an inadequate welder.

Good to know. I just mentioned since it seems sometimes in a lower budget range guys are not always interested in gas shielding.

 

[dmw16]

i got a miller 140 and it *****, not enough azz to weld anything but beer cans, Im going throw the switch on a hobart 230 in a couple days

This is the first review I've read saying the smaller unit isn't up to at least light to medium duty welding so long as one respects the limitation of the rig.

 

[AldeanFan]

I have a Lincoln 140, $500 on sale here in Canada where every thing costs more. Had it for 7 years restoring cars and doing general handy man work around the garage. It's all I've ever wanted or needed.
I figure if I needed more welder I'd be beyond my skill and should be hiring a professional. For example I wouldn't build my own roll cage And trust my life to it even if I had a $1,500 welder.

 

[dmw16]

I have a Lincoln 140, $500 on sale here in Canada where every thing costs more. Had it for 7 years restoring cars and doing general handy man work around the garage. It's all I've ever wanted or needed.
I figure if I needed more welder I'd be beyond my skill and should be hiring a professional. For example I wouldn't build my own roll cage And trust my life to it even if I had a $1,500 welder.

I'm with you on that. I don't intend to ever build a roll cage. My space limits me. I don't have room for a tube bender or chop saw. So my limits are low as far as major fab work.

 

[sberry]

The thing about moving up here is its really 2x the machine and just allows a whole different level of work. Hobart 210, 030 solid.

 

[dmw16]

The thing about moving up here is its really 2x the machine and just allows a whole different level of work. Hobart 210, 030 solid.

I don't doubt it would do more. But I do doubt if I could do more with it. If that makes sense?

And it's a question of cost. The Miller 141 price point is the top of the mark for me. Doesn't mean it would be the 141 but it can't cost more than that. And I'm more comfortable at the price of the Hobart 140.

I get getting more machine then I need. But starting out i would rather cap out a lesser machine and upgrade. Will cost more but at least I'll know why I'm upgrading and know I'm getting good use of my money rather than doing work a $450 machine can do with a $1000 rig.

 

[MarkG]

Just a little reminder if you don't think the Handler 140 will live up to it's specs! Single-pass T-joint welds in 3/16" mild steel bent over in a press with NO signs of weld failure. A great welder! I wouldn't have sold it if I didn't need the $$$ more than a welder right now!

I guess in theory, flux core would do even better!

BTW----You more experienced guys: I can't figure out the spatter! The polarity was correct, it's pretty clean metal, it was solid wire set to Hobart's settings. It just looks like more than the normal amount of 'BB's'. Any thoughts?? It MIGHT have been getting low on sheilding gas------could that contribute to more spatter? Thanks.

 

[BD1]

You should check Craig's list . There are always 110 volt machines listed like new. People buy them and realize they don't have enough amps .I don't know how it is by you .

 

[dmw16]

You should check Craig's list . There are always 110 volt machines listed like new. People buy them and realize they don't have enough amps .I don't know how it is by you .

I've been looking around there. Not much going. I saw a Hobart 210, but it's in a really bad part of DC. So I'm hesitant to head over there with a wad of cash.

 

[wagon]

The miller has an angled wire drive, possibly updated drive motor, AutoSet, and continuous control of voltage.

I'd avoid the Lincoln. Why, you ask? Brand preference. I trust Millers more, and likely for no reason, but I do trust them more.

The 141 is still a transformer machine, so it will be as reliable as the old ones. Won't go wrong with a Hobart, either. Many parts are shared.

 

[wagon]

On Eastwood, compare to Coplay Norstar, Weldmark or any other Chinese welder. See if you notice any similarities. Same plastic drive housing, front decal, control knobs, guns, everything.

A Chinese machine is a Chinese machine. Even the Tweco Fabricator line (within your budget) is extremely similar to the RazorWeld machines.

 

[dmw16]

On Eastwood, compare to Coplay Norstar, Weldmark or any other Chinese welder. See if you notice any similarities. Same plastic drive housing, front decal, control knobs, guns, everything.

A Chinese machine is a Chinese machine. Even the Tweco Fabricator line (within your budget) is extremely similar to the RazorWeld machines.

I figured it was a rebadged whatever. By all accounts probably enough for my needs but I prefer to buy a quality product. Part of the draw of the Miller is I know it's made in the US. Not sure on the Hobart tho they are at least owned by Miller.

 

[LumpyMusic]

For most of my welding (fabbing auto stuff) DUTY CYCLE is the most important parameter of a welder. Once I get a project tacked up I want to weld it out and at least get through each bead without getting shut down by that 20 or 30 % duty cycle.

I can weld 1/2" plate with a 130A china mig if I make enough passes. And I don't care much if my heat setting is rheostat or taps. But doing one, simple, long bead on a piece of 11 ga and getting stopped at the two minute mark is a PITA.

So if you think you'll be tacking and following up by relatively long weld outs, I say either get a machine with a big duty cycle or get one that's big and over powered so that it's duty cycle, when turned down, is not a factor.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[sberry]

I ran thes snot out of a couple 200 class mig and never had one shut off on thermal.

 

[wagon]

I figured it was a rebadged whatever. By all accounts probably enough for my needs but I prefer to buy a quality product. Part of the draw of the Miller is I know it's made in the US. Not sure on the Hobart tho they are at least owned by Miller.

Miller is "assembled" in US, the wire motor and gun are imported from Mexico and China respectively.

Hobart will be the same deal, but Miller final assembly is done in Appleton, WI, and Hobart is done in Troy, OH. No other company making welders, as far as I know, makes any machines of this class in the states. Lincoln PowerMIG units are ALL Mexico. The PowerMIG 210MP is Made in Mexico, the 140C, 180C and 180Dual are Made in Mexico. Even the PowerMIG 256 is Made in Mexico. Not that the Lincoln machines are bad, but they do employ 900 people in Mexico, advertise it on their Mexican site, but do not advertise on their American site how many Americans they employ.

The lowest I've ever seen on a Miller machine is "Assembled in USA". They do have plants in Italy and China, but those machines are for domestic markets only, and never come stateside.

Electronics, I was told, are domestic. I asked where the circuit boards for the Millermatic series are done up, and I was told it was in Appleton, WI.

You can't go wrong with Miller for top of the line, but there's nothing wrong with Hobart if you can live without Auto-set. Consumables are the same, and Americans are employed in the actual manufacturing of the unit, rather than just the shipping, receiving and sales.

Cooling fans for both will be from the Philippines, and the casters likely from China.

 

[dmw16]

Miller is "assembled" in US, the wire motor and gun are imported from Mexico and China respectively.

Hobart will be the same deal, but Miller final assembly is done in Appleton, WI, and Hobart is done in Troy, OH. No other company making welders, as far as I know, makes any machines of this class in the states. Lincoln PowerMIG units are ALL Mexico. The PowerMIG 210MP is Made in Mexico, the 140C, 180C and 180Dual are Made in Mexico. Even the PowerMIG 256 is Made in Mexico. Not that the Lincoln machines are bad, but they do employ 900 people in Mexico, advertise it on their Mexican site, but do not advertise on their American site how many Americans they employ.

The lowest I've ever seen on a Miller machine is "Assembled in USA". They do have plants in Italy and China, but those machines are for domestic markets only, and never come stateside.

Electronics, I was told, are domestic. I asked where the circuit boards for the Millermatic series are done up, and I was told it was in Appleton, WI.

You can't go wrong with Miller for top of the line, but there's nothing wrong with Hobart if you can live without Auto-set. Consumables are the same, and Americans are employed in the actual manufacturing of the unit, rather than just the shipping, receiving and sales.

Cooling fans for both will be from the Philippines, and the casters likely from China.

Great info, thanks!

Sounds like Miller/Hobart are doing their best to keep work in the states and that means something. There are lots of great hardworking manufacturing folks here and it ***** seeing companies ship jobs out, but I digress.

I can certainly understand casters and fans and the like being made overseas, but that seems a small issue compared to the china-built units.

 

[wagon]

BTW Miller shows the duty cycles of their machines in their manuals, with full curves like dynographs.

https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O264423A_MIL.pdf

go to page 12 for that chart on the 141.

On Duty Cycle, it is where the manufacturers rate their machines.

Lincoln, for example, rates their 210MP at 25% at 200 amps. The MM 211 (inverter) is 20% at 200 amps, and 10% at 230 Amps. Miller actually rates the machine at 30% at 150A.

Duty cycle also depends on environmental factors. If it's cold out, then the parts don't get as warm, and your duty cycle improves. Miller rates their machines at 104F, so the duty cycle is based on it being 104F. If your shop is cooler, then the duty cycle is higher.

I'm harping on Miller hard, but would be equally pleased if you bought a Hobart machine. Hobart also has full part breakdowns in their manuals, and EXCELLENT customer support.