Finding a contractor...

[MB38]

Hey folks,

After a few false starts due to code changes and poor choice of initial architect, I finally have plans in the building office that are nearing approval. I've lurked more than I've posted here, but the late-2020 version of my story is that I'm trying to build a simple 22x36' garage on my nice flat property in Southern California, Burbank specifically.

I'm just starting to try and find a contractor. I've chatted with a few in the past long ago, but now that the project is becoming a reality the quotes actually mean something.

But beyond just googling or yelping contractors, I don't have much of a place to start. I've received a few quotes thus far, but it's been a bit startling from a price perspective. Like $250/sf startling.

So I guess my question is... how did you guys find a contractor when the time came? There are tons of them around Los Angeles as you might expect, but most of the ones who are marketing-savvy enough to end up downrange of a google or yelp search are in the "medium to high end trims" range, which seems to be code for "expensive".

At the end of the day we're talking about a 22'x36' slab with 10' walls, a ridge beam, and a whole truck full of 2x4s and stucco. Granted there'll be some Southern California tax here, but it shouldn't be a bonkers project. Anybody have any secrets to finding a "garage spec" contractor? Extra points if you've got one.

Thanks!

 

[jake28]

Broad advice you should take with fist fulls of salt.

1. Be really clear with yourself and any potential contractor about what “garage spec” means, and what level of finish you’re expecting. Photos, and Pinterest boards you can review together are really helpful. If you’re getting a 250/ft2 bid, it might be because there are different expectations on the level of finish you’re looking for.

2. Be weary of a low-ball offer. Too good to be true often is. It’s harder to pull off on a small project, but on full houses and even giant commercial projects, change orders are where the money is. It’s common practice for a savvy (note: not necessarily unethical) contractor to look at a set of plans, recognize they’re incomplete or impossible to build, agree to them, and then say “it’s not in the plans, that isn’t what I signed up for.”

3. Contractors, like individuals in any group, will have different specialties, interests, and levels of tolerance for discomfort. Some won’t even get out of their truck for a simple garage, and will drive by en route to a million dollar kitchen remodel. Others will welcome the relatively low stress of stick built and basic finishes. It’s like dating.

 

[yeldogt]

When building -- you are always up against .. what else can the contractor be doing. What will he make doing it.

There is no "correct" way to find a contractor/ builder. I have a lot of projects under my belt -- a few years back I hired one of the best builders around to do a very expensive project that should have been a perfect fit. We had to fire him .. disaster.

One of the best ... found through my landscaper.

It's not easy currently -- people are busy and stuff is expensive. What you have to understand is a decent sized contractor has a system -- you want one that fits what you are building --- a garage is an outlier.

Example: My new project has a simple outbuilding that's around 1600sf .. I was going to insure it for 250k. I asked my current builder about rebuild cost .... he said maybe a low of 320k (200sf) since it's a big simple structure. Typically -- it would be closer to 250sf or 400k with house details. He figured --- would end up being 350k. Then he said to me ... we do X/Y/Z ... in other words we build things a particular way. He has a system that delivers a quality desired ... they have subs that build to a level of quality.

So you at 250sf in an expensive market is not surprising.

 

[Rst277]

To continue the dating analogy, network, network, network. Don't sit at home on the computer. Talk to your neighbours, work colleagues, friends and family to see whom they have used. Know any tradesmen? They work for builders and know who is good and who isn't. See a garage being built in your neighbourhood or renos happening - stop and BS with the guys for a minute or the homeowner.
Look for guys that build garages. There's a company here but they're local, but they only build garages. That's what they do and they build them fast and good. A home builder is looking at a big project with lots of opportunities to upsell and upgrade. That's where they make the profit.

You could always build it yourself - pretty simple!

Ralph in Winnipeg

 

[nadogail]

Does your architect have advise and experience with any contractor?

 

[dcg9381]

This is a region specific question. Are you looking for a GC who is responsible for all of it? Because those gigs are mark-up on top of mark up and small jobs will require substantial financial incentive for contractors to show up and make your schedule.. That's why it's coming out to really high per sqft.

I don't know the construction market in CA, but if they are building lots of homes, it's very hard to get small jobs done. You'll have to either pay a lot or be patient.


Best independent advice I can give you is find "similar" designs that are going up or have gone up recently... Jobs that are already up, ask the owners. Jobs that are going up, talk to the contractors.


Here your job would be 3 crews to get that structure up. You could find them independently, but in my area - we don't ask / don't tell about license (not required) and insurance (generally not available). So you need to know what you're doing.
Foundation
Framing
Cornice

Biggest rule on building ANYTHING with ANYONE. Do NOT pay up front and NEVER get payment in front of the work being done. For any contractor or GC that wants a "deposit" for material, you offer to pay that directly - meaning writing a check to the supplier, not the GC. Credit card payments are safe (there is a charge back window) - but it's unusual that they're accepted in construction as a GC.

 

[Innovate1]

Some good tips by others who have replied. It's easy for someone to put up a nice facebook page and talk a good line. Many of the smaller builders here aren't in the better business system - it's a good reference point but businesses that pay seem to get some leeway on ratings so like everything take it with a grain of salt. Nothing beats the good experience of someone else getting a similar job done - just make sure they aren't tied to the person doing the work somehow. Don't do final payment until you are sure things are right. I was my own GC on mine and had someone do the epoxy floor. Of course they wanted payment as soon as they were done. It looked fine. We said send us a bill and we will send you a check. Then I had some bubbles show up before we paid the balance. He tried to repair them several times. Bottom line is he did crappy/wrong prep work. I had paid half up front. I was under some deadlines for my permit so I told him he was done. He said he would come back with his supplier about the issue. I insisted I be there. He threatened legal action but I haven't heard from him since. I have had a few similar things. Payment is the best lever to get things fixed. You have to be ready to play hardball with them if things go south.

Construction, at least around here, is busy so prices have gone up. And material prices have gone up this year apparently related to covid.

Hiring a GC will ease some of the headaches of dealing with individual contractor issues but at a price. And the comments about having all the details spelled out is spot on. Even with a good contractor if it isn't detailed on the plans they may do it differently than you are expecting.

 

[bradpac]

Find some newer looking projects similar to your own and knock on some doors and see who did the work. Also, go to some commercial supply houses and talk to those guys, see if they can recommend some people.

 

[Glemon]

Wow, so doing the math about $200,000 for a 3 stall garage. I was looking at a similar sized project 3 years ago and was at about $20,000 for materials plus slab. I am in a part of the country where labor is probably cheaper, and material costs have gone up, but that sounds like a lot of markup.

Can you have somebody pour the slab for you, buy a kit from a big box stores, frame it up yourself and have somebody wire and roof it (roof isn't that hard, but an experienced roofing crew will knock it out in less than day). You would save a lot of money that way.

If you want to have it all done, or even if you want to piece it out, as mentioned, network. I did a smaller extension on my prior garage several years ago, and quotes ranged from low at $10xx to high at $30xx. Same job, the 30xx guy could start right away, the 10xx (friend of a friend of my wife, highly recommended) guy was booked up and never called back, go figure.

With this stuff I have generally ended up getting frustrated and doing most or all myself, but I know that isn't an option for everybody.

 

[WES51]

...Biggest rule on building ANYTHING with ANYONE. Do NOT pay up front and NEVER get payment in front of the work being done. For any contractor or GC that wants a "deposit" for material, you offer to pay that directly - meaning writing a check to the supplier, not the GC. Credit card payments are safe (there is a charge back window) - but it's unusual that they're accepted in construction as a GC.

So much great advice here, I feel "guilty" of highlighting only one. But this one was THE answer that I was looking for, that I had on my mind.

Other than that, I too made almost only bad experiences with every job that I have contracted out. Regardless how much I have over paid, I always needed to look over the contractors shoulders as they were always trying to cut corners.

The only good contractors that I could find so far are on some YouTube Channels that I have subscribed to.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Fly me and my crew out there and we will build it. We have been to Florida multiple times, New Jersey, and Connecticut to build garages/additions. If you are interested send me a pm.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Biggest rule on building ANYTHING with ANYONE. Do NOT pay up front and NEVER get payment in front of the work being done.

This is the law in California, and make sure you are working with a contractor that follows it.
ALSO: Hold back at least 10% of all the labor and overhead until the job is completed to your satisfaction. Be sure this is in the contract. It really helps to keep the contractor's attention till you are satisfied.

IMO, Best way to find a contractor is to check out all the construction happening nearby and talk to them and get tours of their work. And then speak to the owners of jobs they have *completed*: don't skip this! Most people like to believe their current contractor is great, but sometimes that opinion changes after the end of the project.

Also, be sure to find out how many simultaneous jobs the contractor is doing... my preferred answer to this is only 1, your job. If they are doing multiple jobs, then you will be dealing with a foreman... who likely doesn't have authority to do anything that costs the boss any more money... so that can be problematical.

Spend time reading about problem builds on this site. Learn from other's mistakes and try to make fewer yourself. Especially with concrete. Because once the concrete is down, most contractors will run before they fix a significant problem with it.

 

[paultribbiani]

I think I can help you with this. Send me a message

 

[georgecluthes]

You could try out some restaurant building Fortworth contractors as they are also do any commercial builds that are quality.

 

[dcg9381]

If you can find something similar going up, stop by and start asking questions.
As others have stated, absolutely critical:

1) Be specific in writing. Absolutely as much detail as possible. IE "22'x36' slab" - yea, that's not nearly enough. Mark off where you want the slab, specify the thickness, specify the beams, specify the fill, specify the rebar. If you don't know now, that's OK, but ALL of it gets written down before he starts work. Is there a brick ledge? If it's steel, it'll likely need a "rat lip". When you sign an estimate, it needs to have all these details. Without details, you're subject to revisionist history.

2) Don't EVER pay in advance. It's OK to pay out portions when stages of work when that stage gets completed.. If a contractor wants "materials cost" - agree to that, but you write a check or pay his materials vendor directly. This way you're never out materials, even if the contractor bails. Concrete contractors really shouldn't want cash up front - if they can't cover a load of concrete, they are living so razor thin that they can't fix a mistake anyway. Contractors have lots of recourse (liens) to recover if you don't pay. In my county, they do not prosecute anyone if you willingly hand over a check, doesn't matter if they do zero work after you pay them.

3) As non-competing GCs who they use for subs... Trust me, the GCs know the subs around your area. They know who to avoid and who does a good job.

4) Right now there is still a lot of construction pressure. The easier you make a job, the more likely they are to show up and bid on it. Everyone has a lot of work and contractors can cherry pick easily.

5) I use the "internet" - craigslist / facebook "last". This is the go to place for subs that don't have work or are "high risk" and have to advertise... It's also the target market for subs that aren't going to do the job or have a history of taking a check and walking away. Want to use someone from one of these places? Physically go see their last 2-3 jobs. I mean go look. Because a phone call is NOT a reference.