Finding double-wall chimney piping for fireplace

[Uncle Ben]

Hey everyone, I have a wood-burning fireplace "insert" that has never been installed or used, but it is a somewhat "older" unit, and 2 different fireplace companies have told me that they cannot get piping for it. They also want to charge me $6,500 to install a new fireplace and piping, which I cannot afford...so I'm trying to find double-wall piping that will fit this unit.

Does anyone know of a good company or resource for finding the right piping?
I'm also attaching a few photos of the fireplace for reference. For the photo that shows the piping connection on the top of the fireplace itself, I assume that is what the inner wall of the piping would connect to.

 

[Gutman]

Try Duravent.

 

[Jackfre]

Both of the biggest manuf of these ZC units, Majestic and Superior, made dedicated piping systems for their particular products. I was representing Dura-vent and then Selkirk in the 80’s-90’s and could not get into that market due to their making their own pipe. I would suggest that you go to Hearth.com and ask. If it is out there someone there will know. As you are playing with fire here understand that even if you can find an adapter to Selkirk or Duravent you are using a non-listed product on your fireplace. In todays insurance world that is just not a good idea. Also, in the 8” size you are looking at serious cake here.
You don’t say what your pipe length needs are. I just tore a Superior from ‘85 out of our house and trashed the pipe. I put in a Rinnai gas fireplace in its spot. Couldn’t be happier

 

[Uncle Ben]

Fireplacesdirect.com pointed me to this adapter...

Superior 12-Inch Conversion Pipe from 8DM to FTF8 for 8-Inch Chimney (12-8DM-FMI-LHP)

This pipe has been designed specifically to convert Lennox fireplace models using FTF8 chimney pipe to the new 8DM chimney products. Refer to your fireplace installation manual for manufacturer specifications and installation guidelines.

www.fireplacesdirect.com

We considered a gas fireplace as well, but we are out in the country without city gas, so we would have to get a propane tank put in if we wanted to go gas.

 

[ericm]

We had a zero clearance non EPA fireplace like that in our house when we bought it. Ours had glass doors. It was a horrible pile of ****. Running a fire in it made the house colder because even with the doors closed it pulled in a lot of air. I was very happy the day we had it removed. We now have a zero clearance "fireplace" that's a real EPA stove. It works so much better.

Installing it was not cheap though. Not only the construction work that was needed but the insulated double wall stainless pipe that's needed with a wood chase was expensive. My preference would be for a real standalone stove, if it will fit with the required clearances.

 

[75gmck25]

The Mendota fireplace we installed used 8" Duravent. It ran up to the 2nd story and through the attic to the roof, and it was really expensive to purchase all the pipe. I bought some parts locally when I got the fireplace, but then found a supplier on Amazon with better prices. The catch was that the supplier also charged shipping, and it added a lot to the final cost, so I wanted to figure out my needs and only purchase once.

If you could adapt yours to Duravent, there are many sources for the concentric pipes.

 

[ericm]

The OP should ask on the hearth forum.

Duravent (the super expensive stuff we used) is insulated. The normal 8" pipe that thing uses is not. It's just two layer pipe. The insulated pipe will keep the flue gasses hotter, which means less creosote deposition. But it also increases the draft. Which will make it **** in even more air from the house and make the house even colder.

Using a different kind of pipe means the install is not to the manufacturer's spec. Then there's a risk that if your house burns down because of the fireplace or flue, the insurance company may use that an an excuse fight your claim.

 

[86turbodsl]

Do yourself a favor and ditch that thing. If you need a stove, get a stove with piped in combustion air.
That's the thing that non-technical folks don't get. If you're pulling in combustion air from the building envelope, the
total structure is going to be colder than if it was not running.

 

[BrandonV]

Do yourself a favor and ditch that thing. If you need a stove, get a stove with piped in combustion air.
That's the thing that non-technical folks don't get. If you're pulling in combustion air from the building envelope, the
total structure is going to be colder than if it was not running.

I agree and I don't know anything about fireplaces but that is the same builder grade fireplace they installed in my place in 1993.

Like most builder grade things I assume it wasn't good from the day it was installed.

 

[Jackfre]

I have to agree with posters talking about the poor efficiency of these ZC units. They are a builder model. They were made to a price point to appeal to the builders desire to say, “It has a nice fireplace.” They sold a bazillion of them. You might think of putting a gas log in it. The PO of our property used their Peterson Gas Log set installed in the Majestic. The house is 1400 sq ft. They spent $500/mo in NG cost. Idiots! Perhaps it would be a good idea to sell this unit, do the research and take the steps that are best for you.

 

[fitter30]

1977 had house built with a prefab fireplace . Sucked all the heat out of the house unless there was a roaring fire. Tried glass doors and fan assist log grate nothing worked.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Here are some pictures from the manual, which does show FTF8 piping. You can also see in some of the photos that there should be an outer ring on top of the firebox that the double wall piping would attach to, but I only have one inner ring. The manual does not mention the outer ring, so I don't know a part number or name for it, but I would obviously have to get my hands on that part as well.

 

[teknikfrog]

Yeah ditch that thing. It's going to be a waste of time, money, and be a liability.

I'd look into a blaze king insert. Will heat your entire house unless you have a mcmansion.

Check with your insurance also. Not only do they often (mine does) require wood burning appliances to be listed on the policy, they will often require things like installation by a CSIA certified technician, and all parts and installation techniques used to be UL compliant. The last thing you want is to burn down your house and be left with nothing.

I also recommend reading the actual code book on this stuff. It won't take you that long and will help you avoid getting ripped off.

 

[ericm]

BK makes standalone stoves and inserts that are made to go in an existing fireplace. A lot of people call zero clearance fireplaces "inserts" but they're not the same as the ones that go in a fireplace. ZCs are made to be attached directly to the studs.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I appreciate the input folks!

 

[P0234]

Drolet makes some really decent EPA rated wood stoves for about $1500 and they often come with the chimney pipe/liner kits. It will probably end up being cheaper in the long run. Also I believe there is still a tax credit for an efficient wood stove.

 

[teknikfrog]

Drolet makes some really decent EPA rated wood stoves for about $1500 and they often come with the chimney pipe/liner kits. It will probably end up being cheaper in the long run. Also I believe there is still a tax credit for an efficient wood stove.

Pretty sure there is but I think it went from unlimited to max of $2000.

Managed to get my stove install done before the change thankfully. If anyone cares I did a Hearthstone Clydesdale with a new 6" liner all the way up the chimney and it cost around 12k. Would go blaze king or woodstock if I did it all over again but the Hearthstone is nice. Heats my entire 4bed 3story house.

Another thought to consider is if your house can fit a standalone stove--they're a lot
- cheaper
- easier to maintain
- efficient
- easier to swap out