Finding tube circuits, post construction, and no floor plan...

[MrJimmo]

Looking at a place for sale with a shop (40x70) and had all the tubes coming up out of the slab, next to a wall. Appeared that the circuits were temporarily connected to each other (imagine loops). 7 loops, 2 ends with brass connectors and 2 other ends that were just plugged with something. One of my unfortunately blurry photos looks like it says "Janes Infloor" (likely http://www.janescompany.com/)

And there's no floor plan for where these lines go.

Any tricks for tracing the circuits?

I might have access to a FliR device (with an LCD screen, showing temp spectrum). Maybe I could pump warm/hot air (or water) through one circuit at a time and try to trace where they go.

Would be a real bummer if I just rolled the dice, drilled for the lifts and ended up with a suprise

 

[walrus]

Looking at a place for sale with a shop (40x70) and had all the tubes coming up out of the slab, next to a wall. Appeared that the circuits were temporarily connected to each other (imagine loops). 7 loops, 2 ends with brass connectors and 2 other ends that were just plugged with something. One of my unfortunately blurry photos looks like it says "Janes Infloor" (likely http://www.janescompany.com/)

And there's no floor plan for where these lines go.

Any tricks for tracing the circuits?

I might have access to a FliR device (with an LCD screen, showing temp spectrum). Maybe I could pump warm/hot air (or water) through one circuit at a time and try to trace where they go.

Would be a real bummer if I just rolled the dice, drilled for the lifts and ended up with a suprise

So the system was never used? Pumping hot water thru and using a thermal imaging device seems to be the best way to find the tubes.

 

[Friartuck]

There is a website called Radiant Design Institute (http://www.radiantdesigninstitute.com) and that author suggests using a laser temperature gun to trace the hot spots (look under FAQ section). The intent was for finding leaks as in the temp drops off quickly, but imagine it could be used the same for tracing tubes.

 

[tdkkart]

Yes, the temp gun works great , but if you have access to the thermal imaging camera that would be even better. Set it up on a ladder so that you are looking from directly above and you'll be able to see exactly where the lines are.

 

[JamieK]

If you don't have access to the FLIR, go with what Frairtuck said and use a laser temp gun. Harbor Freight has these, and they come in handy for alot of stuff. Anyway, mark the general location you need to drill, pump warm water into the tubing, and see how fast that area heats up. Compare to the temp of the floor next to where the tube goes in, to get a baseline.

 

[Mickey O]

Put a metal ball bearing in the pipe and a magnet on the outside, use a little air pressure to move the ball bearing and the magnet will follow the ball, just goofing, I got nothing better that stated above, my idea would probably work in a cartoon though.

 

[nate379]

I asked this EXACT same question last week on here and was told IR temp gun.

I tried it and it's about as effective as a stud finder. Might be it, might not not. Not something I want to chance with the tubing when I'm drilling into the slab!

Going to see if maybe I can rent a FLIR camera.

 

[Mickey O]

Radio active die and an X-ray, works in peoples.

 

[snyder]

I have not tried this, But I have heard that if you wet the floor with the heat on you can see the pattern as the water evaporates off the floor....

 

[MrJimmo]

Thanks for the suggestions fellas.

@walrus: Yeah, looks like it was never used. The looping has likely been there since it was put in. No other apliances for heating. Also the tubes exit directly from the concrete, no bracket/grommet/etc. which I gather isn't the best situation.

@nate:Ah, I see it in your history, but I only searched for tube and circuit which missed your post. The perils of non-standard queries

@Mickey: Well, ya know, you may have something there.

How about this:
o (HIGHLY) Radioactive ballbearing
o Fresnel lens and X-ray film hanging from ceiling
o Force ballbearing through with air
o Develop film

Viola! Ballbearing leaves a traced path on the film.

Probalby couldn't use the shop for a couple 1000 years, but hey, might be perfect scale drawing

Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[Mickey O]

I have not tried this, But I have heard that if you wet the floor with the heat on you can see the pattern as the water evaporates off the floor....

That sounds like a great idea, definitely worth a try.

 

[JamieK]

Expanding on Micky's idea, what about this. Run a fish tape through the tubing, attach a couple of neodymium magnets to the end, and pull it back through. If a ball bearing or another magnet were laying on top of the concrete, it should follow the path. Neodymium magnets can attract from 12 inches away, so it should work through an inch of concrete.

 

[72Tunaboat]

If you do hit a tube when drilling, it's not the end of the world. I have repaired many in-floor pex lines.

Many people have drilled, screwed, or cut through the tubing on jobs that I've worked on.

Granted, a coupling is not really what anyone wants in their floor, but they do work.

I'm not saying it's OK, but it does happen and it is fixable.

 

[Friartuck]

A method of fishing through conduits is the electricians method: Small cotton ball tied to lightweight string and vaccuum attached to one end of the conduit. Once the string is pulled through, perhaps the magnet method, but with a compass which is likely to be more sensitive than a ball bearing.

 

[fatboy99]

How about this:
o (HIGHLY) Radioactive ballbearing
o Fresnel lens and X-ray film hanging from ceiling
o Force ballbearing through with air
o Develop film

Viola! Ballbearing leaves a traced path on the film.

Probalby couldn't use the shop for a couple 1000 years, but hey, might be perfect scale drawing

Yea BUT it would heat it's self

 

[jmschristiansen]

If you could get a radioactive ball bearing, (and chances are you cannot), it would not have to be highly radioactive to be effective. Also, as long as it was contained in the bearing, once you remove the source, the building would be usable in just a short time. Radiation does not contaminate, when it is in a contained source, such as those used in industrial x-ray (pipeline, etc)

The thermal imaging idea is much more practical. Good luck.

 

[Yardbirdaa]

Look in the yellow pages for your local utility locating company. Frequently they will do private locates using a transmitter/receiver to accurately find the lines. If the lines are plastic, you will have to feed a wire through, and ground one end for the them to locate it. The normal charge for something like that would be in the 150-200 range. It works well, but is a little pricey.

 

[cyamaha2007]

If there was wire mesh rebar in there wouldnt that throw the above idea off. Dont get me wrong i think its great just wondering if it would work for me.

 

[Yardbirdaa]

The rebar will take part of the signal, but since the other end of the wire is grounded, the signal will follow it because its the path of least resistance.

 

[ilateapex]

You can rent the thermal imaging camera for about $250 for two weeks. I just rented one to inspect an electrical bus duct and am now using it to look for cold spots in the walls that may need addressed. Easy to use.

Michael

 

[D.J.]

Get in contact with your local fire department and see if they would have a thermal camera they would bring out to your shop and do the heated water routine. This trip by the FD could be used by them as training and as a pre planning trip to your building so they would know the layout if a response should ever be needed. ( Not wishing you any bad luck, by any means. ) But as a Chief of a small department it really helps if you know the layout of a building prior to a response. It would really be cheaper than renting. Thanks D.J.
________
Lovely Wendie99

 

[nate379]

Where did you rent it at? I have not been able to find anything around here.

 

[Speed Farm]

I just found out that many of the home depots that have rentals carry the thermal imaging cameras'