Fine tooth versus regular/coarse

[mjoekingz28]

Ok, I recently threw out my Harbor Freight torque wrenches (I took all three of them back to the store). One was old, from like 2003, and we had a word about it.


Anyway, I am trying to develop a precise and delicate feel for fastening fasteners. I typically overdo some things. Also, I think alot of us dont realize how much torque we put down with the moment-arm of leverage. It is really quite amazing!

Ok, I started trying to use a straight driver (like a screwdriver but with a 1/4" drive on the end- I cannot think of the name of it). Then I will tap it a fraction of,a turn with a quarter inch ratchet. I am trying to develop feel!







I like those band clamps used on intake ducting that has a slot and a place for a 8mm socket. It is like you can tighten with a screwdriver then hit it slightly with the ratchet afterwards. Or you could use the flathead to tighten and use the socket to remove since alot of stuff tends to 'freeze' over time.


Anyway, to the title.




I stepped on a tool truck for the first time earlier this month.



I want a fine tooth, light drag ratchet for use in tight quarters where it can ratchet easily. I also want a ratchet for putting some force on the ratchet, for tightening down real tight and breaking stubborn bolts loose. I looked at getting a 10" coarse 3/8ths AND a fine tooth 7" 3/8ths ratchets. Tis is under the assumption that coarse is for high torque values and fine is for small delicate and tight quarter wrenching.

Now, what about a 10" fine tooth 72 tooth ratchet to have both-in-one? Im not trying to cheap out or compromise, but I dont want to bother the trucker for two when one suits me. But, if it saves even one fastener from shearing, galling, snapping the head off- whatever, then it is completely worth purchasing both ratchets.....


I also have a 1/4" 88 tooth (5" I think) upscale ratchet ordered that I hope to pick up soon.


Maybe having these tools with high grade metal will help tune my perception of torque.







Btw, my first tool truck purchase was a 27" half drive breaker bar.


Thanks all

 

[four.cycle]

honestly?

a used S-K 45170 and an old 77J Thorsen will set you back about $30-$40 on Ebay for both of them.

or maybe a nice 2775 Indestro and a 6272 Indestro, but it would be another $10-$15 for those unless you really watch the listings.

just my two cents.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Snap On F80 is smooth, low backdrag, and strong. Armstrong is thinner in the head though.

 

[gdocktor3]

Older round head ratchets are beautiful pieces of work. I love my 1/4" SK, 1/2" Williams Superratchet, even older Craftsman tri wheel ratchets work nicely. Gearwrench 120xps work great as well. Bottom line, snap on dual 80s are the cats ***. However, I recently purchased a Craftsman low profile 84t on sale for $20 and wow. Every time I see a thread like this I mention the 84t. Low back drag, fine tooth, low profile with quick release for $20. It has same design as maxx 88, with 4 less teeth. I buy USA stuff when I can and never ever bought a HF ratchet, but compared to a quick release dual 80s price the craftsman cannot be beat. Just my .02

 

[drewvdw]

It seems to me that you are way over thinking this. Fine tooth does not mean low torque, I wouldn't bother with a coarse tooth ratchet. There's just no time in my mind that they have any advantage to the fine tooth ratchets. As for torquing, I think you're over thinking that too. Unless it is head bolts/studs, wheel lugs, or a few other critical areas, they all get the German torque spec- Gütentite (good 'n tight) but that's just me.

 

[L.Cheapo]

You can have your cake and eat it too with a Snap On dual 80. Fine tooth, low backdrag (especially after a little use) and the 3/8" ratchet is good to 250ft lbs!
https://www1.snapon.com/display/231/ToolNews/FeaturedTools/TooloftheMonth_June_Dual80.pdf

 

[Stevenn1]

I think OP is thinking about old school ratchets, as far as FINE = weak & COURSE = strong- I was always told that back in the day too. But times have changed! New ratchets engage more then one tooth at a time now. Snap-on Dual 80 series has 7-tooth engagement both ways ('on' & 'off') for one example.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Are fine tooth ratchets sort of new?


Like fuel injection? Where some Cadillac had it in the 50s, but it wasnt widespread until the late 80s. And now, besides OPE, just about all internal combustion engines are fuel injected.






Like, fine tooths have been around, but were ahead of their time and expensive to manufacture.....but now they are becoming the norm?



I guess my first fine tooth is the composite Pittsburgh grey 1/4". It is pretty neat how 'tight' it is.


I just remember using the old clunkers that required an 18-wheeler right turn berth to engage a single tooth to make progress on a bolt.


I have been a locally available ratchet user, but am seeking out higher tier tools now-a-days.

 

[T45]

The long/flex Snap on dual 80 is really a good choice if you can stomach having $$ ******* in it. For the shorter ratchet, you might want to consider the shape and hand feel as much as the statistics and popularity. It needs to fit your hand differently in tight spaces. The dual 80 mechanism was tested by a japanese magazine and apparently is stronger than the snap on breaker bar in the same drive size.

 

[PBCampbell]

I'd say the definition of fine tooth has changed. I can remember when 40 tooth ratchets were marketed as fine tooth. I'd say modern offerings should be considered super fine (60 tooth) and ultra fine (80 tooth and beyond). That said the smoothest socket ratchet I have is probably a Proto 24 tooth on a torque wrench. I mean this thing when I first used it was so noticeably smooth it took me aback.

 

[Wamsutta]

I want a fine tooth, light drag ratchet for use in tight quarters where it can ratchet easily. I also want a ratchet for putting some force on the ratchet, for tightening down real tight and breaking stubborn bolts loose.

Your way of thinking is a little bit dated. These days you can have both low back drag and superior strength in one fine tooth ratchet. Look at the Dual 80 series by Snap-on.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Anyway, I am trying to develop a precise and delicate feel for fastening fasteners. I typically overdo some things.

I didn't use torque wrenches from my teens for about 20 years.

Just use a 10" ratchet to tighten lug nuts and put some strength into it.

A 5" 1/4" drive ratchet will cover most M6 or M8 fasteners.

Most importantly, tighten something with your hand choked up on the handle. Then sneak up on it with a torque wrench, adjusting gradually to see how tightly torqued you made it.

 

[sk farmer]

the amount of teeth or the amount of back drag has absolutely no bearing on the amount of torque you apply. once the teeth lock and you pull on the handle none of those matter.

only experience will give you feel of how much torque you are applying. even then, some ham fisters don't think anything is tight until they hang from it with all of their weight.

all of the suggestions for dual 80's? mmmeeehhhhhh.............a fine ratchet but highly over rated. it is not the end all be all that so many suggest. i have one and it rarely gets used. my gearwrench, armstrong, sk and proto big dawgs get used far more and cost far less. there are many ratchets with with smaller diameters, thinner profiles and better direction levers. any ratchet with at least 60 clicks will give you good service and the difference between any of those with 72 clicks and over is so minimal it is hardly worth discussing.

my advice, get as much variety as you can. 2 or 3 ratchets in each size is good, 5 is better and 10 is just a good start to a collection. different handle shapes, lengths and materials is the spice of life. you will soon find some ratchets are better suited for some jobs or you just like some better than others.

 

[sk farmer]

Are fine tooth ratchets sort of new?

Like, fine tooths have been around, but were ahead of their time and expensive to manufacture.....but now they are becoming the norm?

fine tooth ratchets have been around for a long time. dual pawl wrights, cman rhft's, sk tuff 1's, bonney sweethearts and blackhawk baldies to name a few. even snap-on has had a roundhead finetooth that goes back many years. it has really only been since the dual 80 came out that there has been such a big deal made about the vast number of clicks required. whatever was in the kool-aid, it was strong.

 

[RRmech]

I still have my Snap-On F749 round head fine tooth from my RR days.

Steve

 

[bonneyman]

honestly?

a used S-K 45170 and an old 77J Thorsen will set you back about $30-$40 on Ebay for both of them.

or maybe a nice 2775 Indestro and a 6272 Indestro, but it would be another $10-$15 for those unless you really watch the listings.

just my two cents.

Do you have a camera in my tool box or what?

 

[four.cycle]

^ no.... I just read the posts here and all the comments you guys post get registered in my memory.

like this one:

Open gear Thorsens = The AK-47 of ratchets... nothing glamorous, but very tough.

They stopped making that model long before I started selling Thorsen in the 1980s.
I own a few of the 1/4" drive models, but didn't have any of the 3/8" or 1/2" drive models so I picked up a few.
CRDTI's statement above is correct: damn things are fairly bulletproof.

Picked up the equivalents in Indestro (3239 3/8" drive and 6470 1/2" drive) too, just for good measure.

The 45170 S-K seems like a damn good piece, but for the life of me I don't really see much difference between it and a 77JC Thorsen RHFT. Maybe I'm just not observant enough.

On the 2775 Indestro: there's a whole mess of them at a tool liquidator outfit in Oklahoma City. I got popparoach to pick up one for me - NOS - paid him $20 for it shipped.

My favorites today are the 2400 and 2426 Wright 1/4" drive models I just received - tiny little things with an amazingly fine mechanism.

 

[PJNJ]

honestly?

a used S-K 45170 and an old 77J Thorsen will set you back about $30-$40 on Ebay for both of them.

or maybe a nice 2775 Indestro and a 6272 Indestro, but it would be another $10-$15 for those unless you really watch the listings.

just my two cents.

Go to any flea market in NJ, for example Englishtown, and you can find SK 3/8's in good shape for $10 all day long - some sellers will negotiate down from there. Thorsen aren't as easily found but last week I found a 1/4 Thorsen 77mc for all of 2 bucks (seller asked for 3 took 2) after digging through a box of garbage tools. And internally it was in very good shape with good chrome on the handle. Picked up what appeared to be a never used SK 1/4 for $5 two weeks ago - used it to make a mini fine tooth 3/8 Frankenratchet by swapping the 1/4 internals with an extra 3/8 thumbwheel I had. A few weeks ago picked up a Proto 4752a which appeared to have never been used for $3. Picked up an SK 1/2 for $8 and a Blackhawk 3/8 round head for $3 at a small flea market last year. Cheap, strong and easily found.

 

[RRmech]

Duro-Chrome made some excellent round head fine tooth ratchets back in the 60's.
You see them on flea-bay quite often, but the prices tend to be all over the map??

Steve

 

[Cruzan80]

Right now, I have a 3/8 and 1/2" in -52 superrachets that are real nice. Between those and the set of long lever Craftsman's, I have most of what I need. And then there are the random others that found there way in.

 

[slidehammer]

I agree with the others who recommend modern fine-toothed ratchets for high torque applications. I have a 1/2" drive Snap-on 80-tooth with a handle that's two feet long.

The next step up from there is a breaker bar. I wouldn't bother with coarse teeth any more.

 

[d.mcfarland]

A breaker bar for a weekend warrior is getting to be obsolete unfortunately.

 

[2oolhound]

It's well known fine tooth threads are stronger than coarse threads in shear strength. Usually there are twice as many threads in the same space and the same holds true with ratchets. Add a 7 tooth pawl and you can see where ratchets like the dual 80's get their strength. Another consideration is the fact that hardening is only a thin layer on the surface of the steel so with coarse teeth there is a lot of area underneath with less hardening. What's made innovations with ratchets in the last decade is the tighter manufacturing tolerances which allow for consistent surface contact in the finer gear assemblies.