Finish detached garage without insulation?

[Barty1884]

Hi all,

First post (beyond my intro post). Hoping to receive some insight into pros/cons of drywall/mud/painting a detached garage without insulating first.

I've just bought my first house, waiting on it to be completed (est. May-June), in the meantime, I have a million ideas running through my head that I want to do.

First on the 'to-do' list, is finishing the garage.
It'll either be 18x20 or 20x20 - Row house with optional detached garages. If all the buyers in a row (or 4/5, I think) opt for the garage, they'll be connected too, resulting in 20x20... If some are opting for simple concrete pads, the resulting garages will be 18x20.


Main goal is just to have a tidy, organized, finished space. Won't be heated.
Beyond parking the truck and storage, it shouldn't see too much regular use throughout colder months - although I am a smoker, so this would be my 'outside' smoking spot too.


Trying to determine whether it's worth insulation the garage, or just throwing up drywall and being done. Cost is the biggest driving factor to leaning towards not insulating - although I don't want to regret it immediately either.

Temperatures range from -30'C to +30'C.

*IF* I went the route of no insulation, is a vapour barrier still required?


Appreciate any insight. Apologies for the long-winded post.

 

[mike93lx]

Don't insulate what you won't climate control.

Are you going to finish the drywall? If not, removing is easy if that changes. If so, they can easily drill and patch holes for blown cellulose or fiberglass

 

[cdestuck]

Do it rt the first time. Even heated, it’ll help I cold temps with the ground heat. Plus down the road you might consider a heating source

 

[Barty1884]

Don't insulate what you won't climate control

Thanks! That made sense in my head, although I keep finding all the 'benefits' via Google searches - more consistent temperatures etc.

I don't particularly care about keeping a consistent temperature in the winter, if it's -30 outside, an unheated garage is going to be cold regardless.

In the winter, the most I care about is getting out of the wind. In the summer, the garage door can be opened &/or have a fan running.

Are you going to finish the drywall? If not, removing is easy if that changes. If so, they can easily drill and patch holes for blown cellulose or fiberglass

Yeah, I plan to mud/tape and then prime/paint for strictly aesthetic reasons.

With that, I assume having a vapour barrier makes sense so it's present if I went the route of blown-in insulation later? For the cost of poly, I don't 'con' to doing so?

Do it rt the first time. Even heated, it’ll help I cold temps with the ground heat. Plus down the road you might consider a heating source

Chances are negligible I'd ever consider a permanent heat source in there, nor any extended use of any space heater etc... but I do see your point.

I have some time to decide, of course - but I'm struggling to justify the cost of insulation + time to myself, when I'm not likely to experience much benefit. However, I'm also weighing up the fact that the easiest time to do anything, is before the drywall goes up.

 

[Bretny]

Personally if I had the money for either drywall or insulation. I would be Insulating. Your winters are a lot harder than in MY too.

 

[Dropsix]

Yeah do not drywall if you aren't insulating. I don't see a point at all.

If you want it warmer, at least insulate and vapor barrier. You may not need a heat source with a garage of that size and a warm truck/attached house.

 

[Stuart in MN]

What's the cost for insulating a 20x20 garage? Not very much, when compared to the total cost of the structure including finished walls. If you're going to put up drywall, you may as well put in insulation. It won't be by much but it will stay warmer than outside in the winter, particularly if you park a car in there - there's a lot of BTUs in a hot engine block.

 

[bdbecker]

For the cost of insulation, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Right now you may not think you need it, but there may be a time in the future when you do decide that setting up a small workshop out there may be a good idea.

 

[BPJOOP93]

Spend the $100-150 for the insulation. Money well spent.

 

[klassenl]

If this is a long term house then do the insulation. If this is a short term house do nothing, nothing at all.

 

[Barty1884]

Personally if I had the money for either drywall or insulation. I would be Insulating. Your winters are a lot harder than in MY too.

They certainly are. I'm just not sure what benefit I'd see from it?

If you want it warmer, at least insulate and vapor barrier. You may not need a heat source with a garage of that size and a warm truck/attached house.

Warmer is certainly not a bad thing. Is an insulated (sans door) garage really likely to be substantially warmer than ambient outdoor in say -30'C, beyond removing wind from the equation?

What's the cost for insulating a 20x20 garage?

For the cost of insulation, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Spend the $100-150 for the insulation. Money well spent.

All fair comments. I think I may be off with my math then (or prices vary dramatically). Even accounting for USD to CAD, I'm still thinking materials are going to be >$500 CAD / $375 US.

Assuming 20x20x9...
R12(as a minimum) appears to be ~$50 for a little short of 100SqFt coverage.
3x 20x9 = 540Sq Ft, so say 6x$50 = $300

Then the ceiling.... 20x20 = 400SqFt.
R20 (as a minimum?), $65 for a little under 80SqFt.
So, best case, 5x$65 = $325

I'm hoping my math is wrong, somewhere?

If this is a long term house then do the insulation. If this is a short term house do nothing, nothing at all.

Who knows what the future holds, but the goal is long-term.

 

[tboy]

Middle road approach:

Why not insulate the walls and leave the ceiling uninsulated. At a future point if you wanted, you could cut an access hole (might already be planning one for storage) and blow in insulation.

The walls will be the harder part to do once drywall is up. The ceiling easy, as long as you can get above it.

 

[Barty1884]

Middle road approach:

Why not insulate the walls and leave the ceiling uninsulated. At a future point if you wanted, you could cut an access hole (might already be planning one for storage) and blow in insulation.

The walls will be the harder part to do once drywall is up. The ceiling easy, as long as you can get above it.

Is this an adequate middle ground?
Makes complete sense for future insulation of the ceiling... but wouldn't the lack of insulation in the ceiling negate some/most of the benefit of insulating the walls?

 

[logical]

Is this an adequate middle ground?

Makes complete sense for future insulation of the ceiling... but wouldn't the lack of insulation in the ceiling negate some/most of the benefit of insulating the walls?

Yes, which is why the right way is to insulate all of it. For someone unwilling to do that, doing the walls makes sense because there is a big difference between doing it before and after drywall. With the ceiling, it's more or less the same regardless of whether you do it as part of or years after the original construction. I have heat in my garage so its 2x6 walls fully insulated from the start but even if I didn't heat it I would want insulation, especially if it's an attached garage. An insulated garage (and don't forget to go with insulated doors) that shares a wall with a heated house will stay much more comfortable than one without.

Sent from my garage.

 

[wanderer]

Build bigger. Don’t insulate or drywall. Do those later, in that order. Insulation makes a big difference in an unheated building.

 

[Barty1884]

Makes sense. That may well be the route to go.

It is detached, so no shared wall with a heated space.

Out of curiosity, if it ends up being the full 20x20 and connected to my neighbours garage, are there any further considerations there? Ie, it's not directly in the elements, neighbour may/may not finish or insulate...

 

[mike93lx]

Makes sense. That may well be the route to go.

It is detached, so no shared wall with a heated space.

Out of curiosity, if it ends up being the full 20x20 and connected to my neighbours garage, are there any further considerations there? Ie, it's not directly in the elements, neighbour may/may not finish or insulate...

Connected? That could be complicated. I'd never want that.

Wonder if code would require type x on the dividing wall.

 

[Barty1884]

Yeah. The house is an end unit in a row-house of 5.
As things stand, I'm getting an 18x20 fully detached garage.
However, if the remaining 4 buyers (or at least 3 more) want a garage, we get a larger 20x20 garage in a connected row, ala the houses themselves.

No Condo board, no HOA - just a party wall agreement.

As far as I can tell, building code here only addresses fire rating on attached garages (as in, attached to a house) and not detached/attached to another garage.

By code, new home construction with an attached garage is required to be finished, through mudding. Detached has no such requirement.

 

[Parrothead]

...By code, new home construction with an attached garage is required to be finished, through mudding. Detached has no such requirement.

Well this just made it easier. Insulate and drywall the garage. While not required by code for YOUR garage, lots of the competition will have finished and insulated garage when you go to sell. And you may never sell, or intend to, but life has a funny way of throwing curveballs.

 

[Mick56]

I had a detached, fully insulated 24 x 28 garage years ago. It was usually about 20 degrees warmer inside than outside.

 

[sweetk30]

my place has a 1800 sq ft shop with nat gas to heater when i purchased it . . . the guy NEVER put a thing in the wall for insulation . . . cost me a ton of cash to do it after he had finished it all . this saved me $$$$$$$$ each season in heating bills . and keep doors closes in summer time it stays cooler inside now also .

 

[DGersic]

Hi all,



First post (beyond my intro post). Hoping to receive some insight into pros/cons of drywall/mud/painting a detached garage without insulating first.



I've just bought my first house, waiting on it to be completed (est. May-June), in the meantime, I have a million ideas running through my head that I want to do.



First on the 'to-do' list, is finishing the garage.

It'll either be 18x20 or 20x20 - Row house with optional detached garages. If all the buyers in a row (or 4/5, I think) opt for the garage, they'll be connected too, resulting in 20x20... If some are opting for simple concrete pads, the resulting garages will be 18x20.





Main goal is just to have a tidy, organized, finished space. Won't be heated.

Beyond parking the truck and storage, it shouldn't see too much regular use throughout colder months - although I am a smoker, so this would be my 'outside' smoking spot too.





Trying to determine whether it's worth insulation the garage, or just throwing up drywall and being done. Cost is the biggest driving factor to leaning towards not insulating - although I don't want to regret it immediately either.



Temperatures range from -30'C to +30'C.



*IF* I went the route of no insulation, is a vapour barrier still required?





Appreciate any insight. Apologies for the long-winded post.

I have a detached garage. Put the insulation up. Yes, it’ll be slightly warmer inside, even with no heat.




Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[The Cobbler]

insulation will keep it warmer in winter, and noticeably cooler in summer . Wait, I forgot, Cowtown doesn't get summer lOL

 

[spudley]

So if you're able to mud and tape, I'm guessing you're also able to hang drywall? Be under $1000 DIY with insulation in these parts.

 

[CraigStu]

I'd ask the builder about insulation and drywall. His crew can do that in about 3 hours. Often the cost will be little more, if any, than you will pay at the store for the materials.

 

[Jinks]

A house (and all associated buildings) is a home. You're going to spend most of your life in one. If you're building 100 of them, or more, then you need to consider cost saving. If you're building one (1) you need to consider comfort. If you can't afford $150 to $500 for comfort you probably can't afford to be building. You will have forgotten the extra cost long before you get over the extra comfort. INSULATE!

 

[Barty1884]

Well this just made it easier. Insulate and drywall the garage. While not required by code for YOUR garage, lots of the competition will have finished and insulated garage when you go to sell. And you may never sell, or intend to, but life has a funny way of throwing curveballs.

Fair point.

I had a detached, fully insulated 24 x 28 garage years ago. It was usually about 20 degrees warmer inside than outside.

my place has a 1800 sq ft shop with nat gas to heater when i purchased it . . . the guy NEVER put a thing in the wall for insulation . . . cost me a ton of cash to do it after he had finished it all . this saved me $$$$$$$$ each season in heating bills . and keep doors closes in summer time it stays cooler inside now also .

insulation will keep it warmer in winter, and noticeably cooler in summer .

Ok, thanks everyone.

Wait, I forgot, Cowtown doesn't get summer lOL

Hey! We get summer..... it may happen to sandwiched between a couple of winter days... but it does show up

I'd ask the builder about insulation and drywall. His crew can do that in about 3 hours. Often the cost will be little more, if any, than you will pay at the store for the materials.

Funny, I'd never even thought of this. There's pre-set available changes to the builders base-spec, and finishing the garage never appeared on any list.

The only thing I've asked for beyond the 'available' options was to run ethernet to the garage..... which they wanted to charge $1,000 CDN for. Clearly that was their "we don't want to do it" price, and I told them to take a long walk off a short pier, but hopefully insulation/mud/tape isn't too much of a stretch for them.

They do appear to offer the best outright 'value', in terms of quality/finishes for the pricepoint, and have a solid reputation..... but I'm perplexed by their to 'non-standard' changes (in their eyes). Surely there's more money to be made there,

For the ethernet run, as an example..... It'll cost me maybe $80 in materials, and a couple of hours of my time to trench and run underground through conduit (not a large yard by any means). I figured I'd have them do it if it would be less than $400, since they're trenching anyway, and won't be doing it by hand. But at $1,000, not a chance.

Similarly, I'm thinking I'd be into the garage for ~$1,000 in materials, and would take me a couple of days to do myself. Their cost on materials would be less, and their time to complete should be substantially less. I'm thinking somewhere in the neighbourhood of $1,500 would be a 'fair' price, does that seem reasonable?

So if you're able to mud and tape, I'm guessing you're also able to hang drywall? Be under $1000 DIY with insulation in these parts.

I think I'm able to do anything. In practice, that's debateable, but I would be planning on doing everything myself, yes.

A house (and all associated buildings) is a home. You're going to spend most of your life in one. If you're building 100 of them, or more, then you need to consider cost saving. If you're building one (1) you need to consider comfort. If you can't afford $150 to $500 for comfort you probably can't afford to be building. You will have forgotten the extra cost long before you get over the extra comfort. INSULATE!

Fair point.

I guess it's not strictly a matter of cost, it's cost at a given time.
I'd love to do the garage right off the bat.... but that is when money will be the tightest.

I want to epoxy the floor too, but I know I have to give the concrete time before I can/should apply.

So, it probably makes the most sense to wait a few months (potentially the following summer), and do it right from the off, opposed to trying to cut cost initially.

 

[wanderer]

I use to work at a company that had two buildings. Neither was heated and one was insulated. The difference was enormous, probably 20 degrees at least on a cold day.

 

[Boilerhouse]

If it were me, I would either insulate and drywall, or do neither. For years my detached garage was insulated but not heated. I hung a thermometer in there and kept an eye on it. Inside, winter time temps hovered from 0 to 3C, snow would melt from vehicles or the tractor. During a cold arctic blast when outside temps dipped to -30 or more, the inside temp would drop to around -4C. Now the shop is heated for winter enjoyment. And on the flip side, in the summer during a heat wave, I go into the shop to cool off.

 

[MushCreek]

Quit smoking, and use the extra money to insulate the garage. Win-win.

I insulated our uninsulated garage, and it stays about 20 F. Warmer than outside, a significant difference when you hop in the car.

 

[Broaner]

K it needs to be mentioned that drywall is really a poor material for a structure that won't stay within a fairly narrow temp range(AKA full time heated). You are 100% going to have tape popping with a 130* temperature swing from winter to summer. Not to mention the condensation adding to the tape popping and mold in humid times.

Insulate and OSB or steel material is best.

 

[Barty1884]

Quit smoking, and use the extra money to insulate the garage. Win-win.

I insulated our uninsulated garage, and it stays about 20 F. Warmer than outside, a significant difference when you hop in the car.

If that would work in the timeframe I'm working with, you'd be onto something!

It's not a lack of finances, just at the time of possession it'll be a little tight.
If I just **** it up and wait (or tap into the line of credit), it'll be fine.

Quitting is on the agenda in the next couple of years though - I've always said I'd quit before I was 35...