Fire alarms

[billconner]

Simple question I hope. I have 6 wired alarms. No idea how old but more than 5 years and one doesn't work so removed. First Alert 9120B the one on my lap says. Any reason to not replace all with combo fire and CO2 alarms?

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Replace them all with the 120 volt combo smoke and CO.……. I assume that you have an interconnected system.
First Alert, Kidde, Firex are good brands…….. Costco has a First Alert talking "two pack" for about $65

 

[billconner]

Replace them all with the 120 volt combo smoke and CO.……. I assume that you have an interconnected system.
First Alert, Kidde, Firex are good brands.

Yes - wired - and that's what I thought. I think if I stick with First Alert, just plug and twist on. Wasn't sure if any reason to not do combo.

 

[reader2580]

No reason not to do so. In some cases, you might have to replace the pigtails, but that isn't too difficult.

I installed wired interconnected combo CO/smoke alarms in my house before I moved in ten years. The extensive remodeling I did meant I needed to bring the smoke alarms up to current code. They are supposed to be good for ten years so I just bought new ones at Menards yesterday evening. Minnesota has fairly strict requirements for CO detectors so it makes sense to get the combo units.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

No reason not to do so. In some cases, you might have to replace the pigtails, but that isn't too difficult.

I installed wired interconnected combo CO/smoke alarms in my house before I moved in ten years. The extensive remodeling I did meant I needed to bring the smoke alarms up to current code. They are supposed to be good for ten years so I just bought new ones at Menards yesterday evening. Minnesota has fairly strict requirements for CO detectors so it makes sense to get the combo units.

MOST of the smoke detectors that are old must have the pig tails (connector plugs) changed because the manufacturer wants you to upgrade the entire system…….. Smoke detectors and especially CO detectors have a life span.
This is a EZ to do job for anyone with a screw driver……… Just match the colors.

 

[reader2580]

MOST of the smoke detectors that are old must have the pig tails (connector plugs) changed because the manufacturer wants you to upgrade the entire system…….. Smoke detectors and especially CO

I bought new Kidde smoke/CO detectors, and of course they changed the pigtail connector. It isn’t a huge deal to change the pigtail connector, but just adds a bit more time. If a replacement detector is the same brand as the others the interconnect should still work with the older and newer detectors. The interconnect is generally a 9 volt DC signal. DC so it still works when on battery.

 

[billconner]

I changed them all. First Alert for First Alert. One of six connectors worked. None of the adapters included were helpful. May be because fire to combo fire CO. Frustrating the bezel also had to be replaced. But all done in a few hours and all seem to pass their built in test routine.

Black, white, and red (or orange or yellow) - I assume black is 120?. I didn't know which breaker so replaced all hot. No problems but probably not good idea. I need to trace that circuit but not sure how. Put a receptacle in and use my Klein circuit breaker finder?

 

[inphx]

I think the NEC code says that Fire Alarm circuit needs a dedicated breaker (labeled). Black should be hot. Alligator clips or temp wiring in an outlet for your klein... or just looking at the 15 amp breakers and flipping and running back and checking with a dvom.

 

[SlappyWhite]

@billconner for the wired smoke alarms... should be Black is hot, White is neutral and Red is signal but it is always good to double check...
***
How are people doing for failures for different brands. I went with wired combo (fire and CO) First Alerts in 2021, so far five of the eight I installed have failed! Failures include just constantly and randomly going off (fire) when there is nothing going on. Random low battery beeping with no (even fresh) back battery issues. Won't respond to the silence button, just keeps going.

I am sick of replacing these things, is there a better brand? I am not interested in anything Internet connected, just combo wired alarms that don't ****.

 

[reader2580]

The problem with smoke alarm brands is there are lots of people reporting that both First Alert and Kidde have problems. There are also cheap Chinese brands that I would never buy. I haven't been able to find much that isn't First Alert, Kidde, or a cheap Chinese brand.

I just bought Kidde again since that is what I have. I looked at First Alert, but the model I want isn't that easy to find.

 

[dscheidt]

I think the NEC code says that Fire Alarm circuit needs a dedicated breaker (labeled). Black should be hot. Alligator clips or temp wiring in an outlet for your klein... or just looking at the 15 amp breakers and flipping and running back and checking with a dvom.

It doesn't, and there are good reasons to not have smokes on a dedicated circuit. Most obviously, you'd never notice a tripped or intentionally shut off breaker, while if your kitchen light doesn't work....

 

[PelicanPines]

I have a wired system ... one smoke alarm "died" after 12 years. I replaced it with a combo.

Originally only ONE of the 7 units was a CO detector and it "Expired" exactly 10 years to the week of installation. Replaced it and it will expire in 2025.

Lived thru a house fire as a child.

 

[SlappyWhite]

I think the NEC code says that Fire Alarm circuit needs a dedicated breaker (labeled). Black should be hot. Alligator clips or temp wiring in an outlet for your klein... or just looking at the 15 amp breakers and flipping and running back and checking with a dvom.

Here is Canada the smoke alarms have a dedicated circuit BUT it also needs to have one often used light on the same circuit. That way you know if the circuit is down. For me I used the centre hall light, on and off multiple times per day/night.

The circuit (at least in older codes) was exempt from CAFI/ACFI and GFCI.

 

[reader2580]

My smoke detectors are on a dedicated circuit. I moved that circuit to my generator subpanel so they still get power during an outage. I don't have all of my lighting and receptacle circuits on the generator subpanel.

If the breaker trips for some reason the detectors will switch to battery. If the battery gets low they will start saying "battery low" as a voice alert. I am not worried about having dead detectors.

 

[reader2580]

Originally only ONE of the 7 units was a CO detector and it "Expired" exactly 10 years to the week of installation. Replaced it and it will expire in 2025.

Some detectors have a timer built in and will beep or something when the timer is exhausted. I bought my first combo detectors in 2001 and after seven years they would start beeping. The only way to make it stop was to disconnect the detector and remove the battery. This is back when CO detectors only had a seven year life.

Combo CO/smoke detectors now generally have a ten year life. Mine have been powered on for a few months past ten years and they have not started to do anything to indicate end of life. I still bought new ones a week ago that need to get installed.

 

[Rc_Guy]

It doesn't, and there are good reasons to not have smokes on a dedicated circuit. Most obviously, you'd never notice a tripped or intentionally shut off breaker, while if your kitchen light doesn't work....

I assume the OP means smoke alarms, a buddy of mine wired his house himself, smoke alarms and doorbell were on the same breaker, if the doorbell was lit up, the breaker was good.

 

[billconner]

Well, I have tried to document the circuits but I have one mystery branch - found it while adding some receptacles and no idea what it feeds - and don't know where smokes are. Will get back to it before long.

 

[sparky 1971]

I think the NEC code says that Fire Alarm circuit needs a dedicated breaker (labeled).

It doesn't. I use a dedicated circuit when I wire a new home every four years for no other reason than that is the way I was taught, but have been in plenty of places where they are on a general lighting circuit.

 

[ToolsRCool]

The most recent ones I bought included a very short pigtail to adapt to the 20 year old mount plates and harnesses that were already installed. Fit and worked perfect. Could not have been easier. They go off when my youngest cooks, so they work.

 

[BrandonV]

It doesn't. I use a dedicated circuit when I wire a new home every four years for no other reason than that is the way I was taught, but have been in plenty of places where they are on a general lighting circuit.

Not sure when it was added to UL 217 but pretty much any hardwired smoke alarm needs to have the solid green LED go out in the event of a mains power loss.

I find explaining that to a new home owner is a good way for them to visually inspect it still has power (assuming they don't do the monthly test ).

The good news is it used to be any colored light (red, green, whatever). They finally standardized on green.

 

[rharman]

When we reroofed in 2023, part of the final inspection was a requirement to have Fire/CO on each floor. I had to replace one wired and one battery unit to comply. No specific requirement re: power, just that's what had been installed years ago. Battery unit was in an old part of the house that wasn't part of the remodel 30 years prior.

 

[reader2580]

It is very common in Minnesota for certain building permits to require smoke alarms to be upgraded to current code including being interconnected. Even a window replacement project can trigger new smoke alarms. I helped my father install more smoke alarms and get them interconnected when my parents replaced their windows over fifteen years ago.

 

[billconner]

Agree. One of those thing codes push hard, for good reason. Not so hard with wireless interconnected alarms.

 

[PT Doc]

I have had 66% failure rate with the 91xx series combo carbon smoke from first alert. They were covered under their warranty but that is a stupid high failure rate. Night have had a bad batch.

 

[billconner]

Mine is a first alert 1046883. Also SMICO105-AC - guessing that's smoke interconnected CO and hardwired, not sure what the 105 refers to. 10 year lithium battery. electrochemical and ionization sensor.

 

[Two Sheds]

It looks like the OP has already bought his alarms, but I'll add my bit anyway. When we did our major renovation we needed 10 interconnected hardwired smoke alarms. The CO alarm could be separate, at least at that time. I bought the most popular ones at the Big Box store that came in the multiple builder packs. After the second middle-of-the-night false alarm in two years, I did some research to prevent false alarms. I bought a set of Gentex 9132 photoelectric smoke alarms (since discontinued and replaced by the S1209). They were expensive, but I've certainly slept better in the years since then. Unfortunately, Gentex doesn't market to consumers, so they can be hard to find.