Fire Extinguisher Info

[creep]

Keeping this thread going ...

So I have a source for some large (50 lb?) CO2 extinguishers. Are these too large, realistically, for home use? (I know that in a fire the adrenaline flows and I'd yank that 50 pounder off the wall like it was a beer bottle, but still ....) And how long would a tag be good for on one of these?

This is a great thread with good information. Thanks to all who have contributed and helped to push this issue into our collective consciousness.

Too large, honestly. 20lb. is pretty heavy and most 50lb. CO2s we see are wheel units.

CO2s are supposed to be hydrotested every 5 years I believe.

 

[creep]

my local fire ext place sold me buckeyes last year when i update mine, hope come these are sub par? thanks, dan

They are better than some brands, but far inferior to others. From my personal experience, Buckeyes are notorious about leaking from 3 areas: the gauge, the welds on the bottom of some of their cylinders, and the O-Ring at the neck.

The gauge will leak from the face or the threads. The head is torqued extremely tight (requires a vice and wrench most of the time to reassemble), which leads to a lot of pinched O-Rings that leak. The welds on the bottom of the cylinders look to be machine made, but we commonly find holes in them that leak.

I saw my first Amerex factory leaker last month. I have seen well over 100 Buckeye factory leakers in the same time period. That said, you're still doing much better than a plastic head Kidde extinguisher.

 

[motoretro]

I have several units in different sizes which are anywhere from 7-35 years old. I'd like to drop them off for Disposal/recycling although I have not come across anyone which does this. I'd like to put new units in the house and garage. Any suggestions?
Thanks,

 

[creep]

I have several units in different sizes which are anywhere from 7-35 years old. I'd like to drop them off for Disposal/recycling although I have not come across anyone which does this. I'd like to put new units in the house and garage. Any suggestions?
Thanks,

To dispose of them, any fire department or extinguisher company will take them. They fire department can train with ones with pressure, and the extinguisher company can dispose of the bad ones.

In the house, a 5lb. ABC in the kitchen and laundry room is about all you need. In the garage, a 10lb. ABC is the best value. If you have a large shop or are worried about the mess of a dry chemical extinguisher, you can go to different kinds and sizes of extinguishers.

 

[motoretro]

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it.
Motoretro

To dispose of them, any fire department or extinguisher company will take them. They fire department can train with ones with pressure, and the extinguisher company can dispose of the bad ones.

In the house, a 5lb. ABC in the kitchen and laundry room is about all you need. In the garage, a 10lb. ABC is the best value. If you have a large shop or are worried about the mess of a dry chemical extinguisher, you can go to different kinds and sizes of extinguishers.

 

[coljar]

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Thanks for this thread. I went to the place that services the ones here at the plant today and got these for 10 bucks apiece.

 

[creep]

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Thanks for this thread. I went to the place that services the ones here at the plant today and got these for 10 bucks apiece.

Both excellent extinguishers.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Can I share a Kidde story? Not pretty.

I used to be sold on Kidde extinguishers - why not, they promised to save my kitchen from certain death, and protect the kids from burned meals (or vice versa)...

Until the one time I needed it. I had 5 - one in the hall closet, 2 in the kitchen, and 2 in the garage. Broiling steaks, and the phone rang... well, I smelled the smoke, and came back to Boeuf Flambe. I went to unload both in the kitchen - dead as a stone statue. I grabbed the one in the closet - equally kaput. Finally I grabbed the 2 in the shop, and ONE of them worked. When I squeezed the handle on #2 - It pizzled, fizzled, and died.

Home Despot specials, all of them, less than a couple years old.

1 out of 5? Not good odds. Decided it was time to step up, and I did - now the house has a pair of 20's, the shop has 3 30's. Sure, they're big, but when you need to put something out ***now***, its amazing how the adrenaline makes that 30 pounder feel like a feather!

When someone says get a good extinguisher, they're NOT "Kidde-ing"...

By the way - the stove was a grand and change to replace. :-( Just think if it was your Z-28, or the cooling lube oil in your heavy-10 lathe against the wall of your shop...

 

[shlbygt]

Did you periodically inspect them or just purchase and forget?

 

[Delta74]

Wow what a read, learned lots from the thread, thank you Creep.

I would like to make a suggestion to creep / mods consolidate this thread on the first post, add your reasoning on some of the F/E's thrue this post as to why you rated the brands as you did and even your picture with the meanings of there ratings. and STICKY it right up top please mods with a link to the whole post.

again, great info, thank you.

 

[Nick Danger]

Because of this thread, I bought a reconditioned Amerex. Thanks for the information.

 

[SILVERPLATE]

Hey Creep, I hate saying it like that, but anyway what do think us best extinguisher I can go buy for home use and where. Thank you.

 

[Wuaname]

To dispose of them, any fire department or extinguisher company will take them. They fire department can train with ones with pressure, and the extinguisher company can dispose of the bad ones.

In the house, a 5lb. ABC in the kitchen and laundry room is about all you need. In the garage, a 10lb. ABC is the best value. If you have a large shop or are worried about the mess of a dry chemical extinguisher, you can go to different kinds and sizes of extinguishers.

Thanks for the tip from here also.

How often do you have to replace a fire extinguisher or inspect?... I am goign to put one in the garage and one in the laundry room.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Did you periodically inspect them or just purchase and forget?

Thanks for the tip from here also.

How often do you have to replace a fire extinguisher or inspect?... I am goign to put one in the garage and one in the laundry room.

Lots of documents on the internet explain the process. HERE is a decent explanation in a PDF document put out by the State of Minnesota.

Charles

 

[Shewbert]

Great thread creep. Lots of good info that most never think about. Usually the extinguishers hang on the shop wall and nobody gives them a second thought, in fact if a fire broke out many would probably have to think about where the extinguisher is, present company excepted, of course!.

A number of years ago I was lucky enough to attend a short firefighting course (short being the operative word!) taught by instructors from Texas A & M. Most of the first day was on the use of extinguishers.

Every police car on our dept. had an extinguisher in the trunk, but very few had ever taken one out, let alone used one! In fact one member took one out at a vehicle fire, pulled the pin and hit the plunger. By this time the vehicle owner had his own extinguisher out and put the fire out. Not needing his the member pushed the plunger handle up replaced the pin and put it back in the trunk! He didn't know any better. Fortunately we learned of it over coffee so were able to rectify the problem. No, we had to keep the member but we got the extinguisher recharged.

Oh! And the Texas A & M guys showed us exactly how long to hit a 6 pack with a CO2 extinguisher to cool it to the right temp!

 

[tomshep]

Great Post!

I have a number of 10 lbers from my office. Every time they come through to replace them it is $5-10 more just to get a new unit. So, the old ones come home.

To everyone, I recommend talking to friends that may be business owners or those at your place of employment. Chances are, they are just giving the old units to the fire extinguisher company and they are scrapping them.

And I am going to go buy a couple cheap Kidde units to let the family test their skills. Great idea.

Tom

 

[Charles (in GA)]

We have become a "toss and replace" society. People do a cost analysis in their head and figure out that buying a new extinguisher is "close" to the investment in the used one, plus the 12 year retest and they scrap for new. Other than a little dust and a few scratches the extinguisher is, for all intents, new when the 12 year is finished, so why pay a dime more for a shiny new one to collect dust on the wall???

Buying the new one means sales tax on it, re certifying the old one means no sales tax. This even further widens the price savings of the used one you were given or bought at the flea market for $5 to $10 each. The only real issue is that due to mergers and buyouts, some brands, and certain designs are no longer available and parts for the valve, the dip tube, etc, are difficult or impossible to obtain. You may have to be prepared to scrap your orphan.

Charles

 

[Carl B]

………. Broiling steaks, and the phone rang... well, I smelled the smoke, and came back to Boeuf Flambe.

Amazing - You Too! I was grilling steaks on our Jenn-Air. It is the type with the exhaust fan built into the top. The exhaust fan however was too strong, and drew too much heat off the grill - so it was hard to sear the stakes to begin with.

No problem - I'd just put an aluminum foil "Tent" over them to start - to hold more of the heat in. I tented them up - and went to the family room to talk to my wife for a minute.. I guess it turned into a three or four minute discussion.

When I came back into the area where the kitchen was - I saw about 12" of thick black smoke at the ceiling.. rushing on into the Kitchen - I saw flames about 3 foot high - coming out of the "tent" and climbing the wall behind the stove! it sounded like the roar of a jet engine

I rushed over, turned the gas off - and the exhaust fan - then crushed the aluminum foil down on top of the steaks.. which were by now little lumps of charcoal.!! Fire Out….

A couple minutes later and the wall would have been fully enflamed..

As I thought about it after - da… I had created a wind tunnel, driven by the exhaust fan. Once the steaks started to burn - the exhaust fan - fanned the flames to an ever greater effect.

I now keep a #10 ABC in the kitchen.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Thumper68]

I picked this one up off a job today for free, it's empty of course can anyone tell me what to pressurize it to after filling it with water.

I also read on another site that I should put some dish soap in the water to break the surface tension, is this correct?

 

[brass89]

That's a cool extinguisher, unfortunately water may not be the best go-to. Most fires are grease or electrical and water would be hazardous in both situations. Last thing you want during a fire is stopping to determine if water will fix it or add to it, you just wanna grab and go which is why abc's are preferred. Safe for electrical, oil, chemical, grease etc.

Not sure what the typical retardant is in fire extinguishers, I had a stove fire a number of years ago and unloaded an abc on it..filled with halon I believe. Nasty stuff, coated everything in a yellowy looking dust. Sucked all the oxygen out of the air, soon as the fire was out I had to get the hell out. Couldn't breathe at all. Took forever to clean up the extinguisher dust, but glad it worked when I needed it.

 

[Thumper68]

That's a cool extinguisher, unfortunately water may not be the best go-to. Most fires are grease or electrical and water would be hazardous in both situations. Last thing you want during a fire is stopping to determine if water will fix it or add to it, you just wanna grab and go which is why abc's are preferred. Safe for electrical, oil, chemical, grease etc.

Not sure what the typical retardant is in fire extinguishers, I had a stove fire a number of years ago and unloaded an abc on it..filled with halon I believe. Nasty stuff, coated everything in a yellowy looking dust. Sucked all the oxygen out of the air, soon as the fire was out I had to get the hell out. Couldn't breathe at all. Took forever to clean up the extinguisher dust, but glad it worked when I needed it.

Your clean-up nightmare is just the reason that I grabbed this A unit, I will hang it in the wood working area of the shop, nice to be able to put out or slow down a wood, sawdust or paper fire with nothing to do but mop up the puddle.

 

[brass89]

I hear that.. yea so long as it's just a wood fire, water would work way better. That cleanup was a nightmare.

 

[White 99]

Halon is clean. ABC dry chem is the stuff that is a mess to clean and is very corrosive to metal.

Sometimes the water extinguisher is the best for the job at hand. It pulls a lot of heat out of a fire and that is sometimes just what dry chemical can't do. Most big fires are attacked with lots of water.

If you put the water extinguisher next to your day chemical you can pick the one that is best for the fire at hand.

I have my water extinguisher next to my 20lb Purple K BC type dry chem next to the door I will probably be heading towards if I do get a fire going. BC dry chem is a lot easier to clean up and not corrosive.

A really nice extinguisher is compressed air foam. Combines a lot of good qualities. To expensive for most people though.

 

[Karl Fields]

Nice job here Creep!
One thing we do at my company, is right before our annual servicing we set up a test range (metal container filled with water and gas - outside - FD notified). Then we have each employee actually put out a fire with the extinguishers.
No training works as well as actually properly using the extinguisher BEFORE you need to.
Only cost a few bucks more in servicing for those extinguishers.

 

[Wuaname]

Omg too many options... Can someone give me a cliff's notes or suggest what I need for my small work area?

1 car garage. Activities in garage will just be basic working on the motorcycle, maybe rebuilding an engine or two. I do plan on getting a mig down the line. I keep no fuel in the garage, but will be keeping some flammable fluids (paints, etc).

The garage is right next to the kitchen, so would I be able to get the same fire extinguisher for both applications or different?

 

[creep]

Hey Creep, I hate saying it like that, but anyway what do think us best extinguisher I can go buy for home use and where. Thank you.

I apologize for not being on here lately. I'll try to catch up on this thread.

Depends on where in the home, but a 5 or 10 pound ABC from Amerex or Ansul (Sentry) is your best bet. Smaller extinguishers don't always have enough to get the job done and larger extinguishers are difficult to carry.

 

[creep]

Thanks for the tip from here also.

How often do you have to replace a fire extinguisher or inspect?... I am goign to put one in the garage and one in the laundry room.

In residential use, they are not required to be inspected by anybody, at least in Arkansas, where I am from.

That said, I'd recommend checking them once a month to see if they they have leaked down and turn them over to make sure the powder doesn't cake up on you.

As far as replacing, that is seldom necessary unless they are trashed, or just too old to be serviced.

I'd recommend a 5lb. ABC in the laundry room and a 10lb. ABC in the garage.

 

[creep]

I picked this one up off a job today for free, it's empty of course can anyone tell me what to pressurize it to after filling it with water.

I also read on another site that I should put some dish soap in the water to break the surface tension, is this correct?

Great extinguisher you have, even if it is older. If it is older than 1971, you will likely run into trouble getting it serviced.

Pressure should be 100psi. The metal band should have this pressure on it somewhere, and the gauge probably has 100 in the green zone.

Lots of folks add a little dish soap to their water cans. Doesn't hurt a thing and can really help out on stubborn fires.

If you aren't sure how to refill one properly, take it by your local fire station and they will know. If yours leaks after refilling it, it probably needs a new valve stem and/or O-ring at the neck.

 

[creep]

Not sure what the typical retardant is in fire extinguishers, I had a stove fire a number of years ago and unloaded an abc on it..filled with halon I believe. Nasty stuff, coated everything in a yellowy looking dust. Sucked all the oxygen out of the air, soon as the fire was out I had to get the hell out. Couldn't breathe at all. Took forever to clean up the extinguisher dust, but glad it worked when I needed it.

Monoammonium phosphate in ABCs, sodium bicarbonate in BCs. Halon is a different type of extinguisher all together.

The powder is a nuisance dust and is not hazardous when inhaled, although you will likely be coughing.

 

[aar0s]

We mix a little dawn liquid soap with our water extinguishers on the BRT, gives the water a little viscosity.

 

[Thumper68]

Great extinguisher you have, even if it is older. If it is older than 1971, you will likely run into trouble getting it serviced.

Pressure should be 100psi. The metal band should have this pressure on it somewhere, and the gauge probably has 100 in the green zone.

Lots of folks add a little dish soap to their water cans. Doesn't hurt a thing and can really help out on stubborn fires.

If you aren't sure how to refill one properly, take it by your local fire station and they will know. If yours leaks after refilling it, it probably needs a new valve stem and/or O-ring at the neck.

Yeah I found the pressure rating when I got it cleaned up, right now I filled it with plain water and charged it, it's been holding pressure for two weeks with no leak down.

Thanks for all the info!!

 

[creep]

One thing we have run into a lot lately at work is Kidde extinguishers that cannot be serviced. Even though they are identical to other Kiddes that can be serviced, some of the labels say they are to be disposed of if the needle on the gauge is no longer in the green for any reason.

These cannot even be given a 6 year service and are to be disposed of after 12 years, even if they still have pressure.

So if you are tempted to make the mistake of buying any Kidde extinguisher, make sure you pay attention to whether it can be recharged or not.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

First off, a big thanks to creep and all the others who shared their knowledge in this thread, great info!! I picked up this old girl in a pawn shop today for $30 thinking I might be able to sell it to a collector after cleaning it up. I was surprised to find that it's functional and nearly full, I assume someone has been keeping it in service.

Now that I've read this thread, I'm going to find out if I can get it serviced and refilled, it's certainly better quality than the units I have in the house.

The only hitch might be the age, I assume the bottom stamp is the date of manufacture or last hydro

Will a hydro require a new stamp on the tank? As shallow as it sounds, I hate to mess up the chrome, it's in fantastic shape for it's age.

 

[zable9]

I've been looking through several threads recently about extinguishers and thought I'd shed some light on the topic. I'm a professional firefighter in Little Rock, Arkansas and on my days off I work for a fire extinguisher service company where I am a licensed technician. This will be long, but I will try to give you all as much knowledge as I can in a brief manner.

First thing on extinguishers - you need them. They can seem expensive, but in the grand scheme of things they are cheap.

Secondly, if you do ever find yourself in need of one, you will want a quality extinguisher. I see a lot of guys on here buying Kidde, First Alert, etc. from Home Depot, Walmart and other big box retailers. These are junk, to be frank. Look at the extinguishers the stores have hanging on their walls next time you shop and you will see they don't have Kiddes or whatever else they stock on their shelves. They buy quality extinguishers. Don't even bother with Cold Fire or other aerosol products that claim to be extinguishers.

There are a lot of brands that make extinguishers, so here is a breakdown of brands to get and which ones to avoid:

Top of the line: Amerex, Ansul
Middle of the road: Badger, General
Waste of money: Kidde, First Alert, Buckeye, Pem All

Many of the last category leak within a year of their manufacture, even the "top of the line" metal head Kiddes. Gauges, O-rings and even the welds on the cylinders are bad from the factory and they are worthless in no time. We have a junk pile of them at our shop where owners got fed up with their brand new extinguishers they bought from HD or Lowe's that are leaked down before they make it to a year old. They are good for scrap and that's about it.

So what is a quality extinguisher that is affordable? Try to find an older extinguisher from the 1970s or early 1980s from your local fire extinguisher company. According to the law, all dry chemical extinguishers in commercial use made before 1984 have to be taken out of service no later than Jan. 1, 2015. We get dozens of these in the shop every day from places who are forced to purchase new extinguishers to comply with this. They cannot be used by businesses any longer, but they are exempt from this if you have them for personal use.

Older extinguishers are usually of a much higher quality than new extinguishers. Brass and aluminum heads and steel or aluminum handles are the norm, not cheap plastic like you will find on many newer extinguishers. Parts are still readily available for older Amerex, Ansul, and some other brands of extinguishers from the 1970s. These extinguishers do not have to be hydrotested if they are for personal use, but you should still have them taken in every 6 years to be serviced, according to NFPA 10. I personally have several Amerex, Ansul and even some American LaFrance (rebadged Badger) extinguishers that are "red tags".

We do not resell these "red tagged" extinguishers at the company I work for, since we can reuse the powder and the cylinders are gathered for scrap, but we are encouraged to take home as many as we need. Your local company may sell them to you for cheap (under $20) if you ask for one, or they may even just give you one.

If you can't get your hands on a pre 1984 extinguisher, I would still suggest contacting an extinguisher company and asking if they sell refurbished extinguishers. These are 1984 and newer extinguishers that are used and can still be hydrotested and used in commercial settings. They are used but have been serviced and should give you years of use with little to no issue if you buy a quality extinguisher. A used Amerex 5lb. extinguisher is often cheaper than a new Kidde will be, and you will be getting a much better extinguisher.

One last thing - don't try to recharge extinguishers at home. It requires specialized equipment in most cases and is dangerous and extremely messy if you don't know what you are doing. Plus, you probably will have a leaked down extinguisher before long if you attempt to do it on your own. The folks like me who rebuild them for a living have to be licensed to work on these things for a reason.

Sorry for the length of the post, just trying to pass along some friendly information to everybody. If you have any questions about extinguishers or fire safety in general for your shop or garage, please ask and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

Stay safe out there.

Thx for the share, appreciate it

 

[zable9]

?... If you have a large shop or are worried about the mess of a dry chemical extinguisher, you can go to different kinds and sizes of extinguishers.

Can you elaborate on this---diff kinds/sizes....? Some examples? Thx appreciate the help/info

 

[fyrlt1]

First off, a big thanks to creep and all the others who shared their knowledge in this thread, great info!! I picked up this old girl in a pawn shop today for $30 thinking I might be able to sell it to a collector after cleaning it up. I was surprised to find that it's functional and nearly full, I assume someone has been keeping it in service.

Now that I've read this thread, I'm going to find out if I can get it serviced and refilled, it's certainly better quality than the units I have in the house.

The only hitch might be the age, I assume the bottom stamp is the date of manufacture or last hydro

Will a hydro require a new stamp on the tank? As shallow as it sounds, I hate to mess up the chrome, it's in fantastic shape for it's age.

You have a rare extinguisher there. the date stamp is indeed the mfr date and a refill would require a test and date stamp and that would not be the only damage to the tank as removing the valve for the test will scuff up the cylinder (and the valve) as well.

Your original idea of selling it to a collector makes the most sense. A chrome Co2 of that age and in that condition could fetch a pretty penny if you put it on ebay. It would assure the originality of such a nice unit remains intact, and you could take the profit from the sale and buy 2-3 of any extinguisher you would want/need.

 

[404]

Thanks to

Bugeyed Earl

For electrocuting this thread back to life. I collect CO2 extinguishers due to the lack of mess. I never hesitate to give a problem a snort of CO2.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

You have a rare extinguisher there. the date stamp is indeed the mfr date and a refill would require a test and date stamp and that would not be the only damage to the tank as removing the valve for the test will scuff up the cylinder (and the valve) as well.

Your original idea of selling it to a collector makes the most sense. A chrome Co2 of that age and in that condition could fetch a pretty penny if you put it on ebay. It would assure the originality of such a nice unit remains intact, and you could take the profit from the sale and buy 2-3 of any extinguisher you would want/need.

That's what I was thinking also, but this unit would not look bad in my kitchen. I'm going to take it to a couple of local shops to see what my options are.

Thanks to

Bugeyed Earl

For electrocuting this thread back to life. I collect CO2 extinguishers due to the lack of mess. I never hesitate to give a problem a snort of CO2.

 

[creep]

First off, a big thanks to creep and all the others who shared their knowledge in this thread, great info!! I picked up this old girl in a pawn shop today for $30 thinking I might be able to sell it to a collector after cleaning it up. I was surprised to find that it's functional and nearly full, I assume someone has been keeping it in service.

Now that I've read this thread, I'm going to find out if I can get it serviced and refilled, it's certainly better quality than the units I have in the house.

The only hitch might be the age, I assume the bottom stamp is the date of manufacture or last hydro

Will a hydro require a new stamp on the tank? As shallow as it sounds, I hate to mess up the chrome, it's in fantastic shape for it's age.

Sorry about the delayed reply. I haven't been keeping up with this forum much lately.

You should be able to get that hydro'd no problem. We have hydro'd several cylinders that are over 100 years old.

The chrome may get damaged though, as you said. Great looking extinguisher though.

 

[creep]

Can you elaborate on this---diff kinds/sizes....? Some examples? Thx appreciate the help/info

There are lots of different sizes and types of extinguishers. Different ones are better for certain applications than others.

A Class A pressurized water extinguisher in a concrete block building with nothing but flammable liquids is no good, but a 20lb. CO2 would be.

A 20lb. CO2 extinguisher is not a good fit to put in your wife's car, but a 2.5lb. or 5lb. ABC would be.

If you have a Halon extinguisher in your server room, don't replace it with an ABC extinguisher, as I heard a customer want to do this week.


Tell me what you need extinguishers for and I'll do my best to help steer you in the right direction.