Fire Hose Questions

[atthebeach]

I have some questions for the fire hose experts here.

I have the recommended 30' defensible space in back of my garage, but beyond that is a steep downward hillside with dry grass, brush, and some small trees. It would be rather dangerous to clear this fuel beyond 30' as it is quite steep and the footing is poor. My garage has wood siding with a composition shingle roof, and we have a history of wildfires in my area; so I am concerned about fire.

I have a 1 1/2" irrigation water line (85 psi) running under ground towards the rear of the garage, and it would be fairly easy to tap into this line to connect a fire hose that would remain permanently installed on the outside wall of the garage. If there ever was a fire back there, this hose could be quickly put into service to wet down the back of the garage and hillside until the fire department could respond.

I have looked at fire hoses on Amazon, but the number of poor reviews have caused me to look elsewhere. I am not looking for the lowest cost if the quality or reliability is going to be problematic.

I am currently considering a 1 1/2" forestry hose offered by American Fire Hose and Cabinet. http://www.americanfirehose.com/fire-hoses/forestry-hose

A forestry hose is supposed to be lighter in weight, so I'm thinking it would be easier for a guy like me to control. I am looking for advice if this is a reputable brand and supplier. Is there another supplier I should be considering? I would appreciate any advice the experts on here can offer.

 

[rkevins]

check with local fire department, also check for a local company that services fire extinguishers the people who check our extinguishers at work also check / replace our fire hoses.

 

[Boilerhouse]

I worked for a company and helped maintain the fire hoses. We generally found light hoses did not hold up, even if they were rarely used. They would deteriorate and develop pinholes while sitting on their racks. We ended up buying Angus hoses 1 1/2 x 75' although they are available longer or shorter. A light hose is no easier to handle then a heavier hose. All the effort is at the nozzle. It is a lot of flow and can be a lot of psi, although 85 is not that high. Protect it from the sun, test it when you get it to become familiar with it, then once a year. We used brass nozzles vs plastic ones although brass is heavier and more expensive. Nozzles should kept "closed" until the hose is put to use.

http://angusfire.com/fire-hose/industrial/redskin/

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Forestry hose is lighter, easier to carry, drag when empty, especially long lengths and long distances.
Once it's filled with water the difference isn't too significant (the heavier hose may be a bit easier to control).

Nozzles are designed to work at a certain PSI. When I joined the department the nozzles were 100 PSI. I think all of our current ones are 50 PSI, they work better and are much easier to control. You will want your supply (including whatever length of hose) to be capable of delivering the flow (GPM) at the rated pressure of the nozzle.

If your wanting to put out fires GPM (Gallons Per Minute) is the factor to go after. More gallons per minute will put out more fire per minute.

 

[NUTTSGT]

You have an irrigation line of 1 1/2" flowing 85 psi ? You're moving alot of water.

Where do you get your water and how are you getting 85 PSI ?

Are you on a city system ? On a well/cistern ?

If there is a large fire and the city system may be taxed and you'll get a lower pressure than you want. If you're on a well, will it provide an adequate flow ? Cistern, how big is it ? Well/cistern, do you have an power source if the fire is large enough that the utility company shuts off power in your area ?

Are you at the bottom of the hill side or at the top of the hill side. I have no experience in wildland firefighting but keep in mind, generally fire will burn faster uphill than it will down hill. Then toss in a wind factor.

If you have a driving wind, it may be entirely to hot for you to even be in the area if it gets ahead of you.

 

[Partsguy57]

I do wildfire for a living... do not use 1.5 if by one self...much to heavy... 85 lbs pressure border line as far as pressure.... will want to kink.. you really want to be in the 110 or above for " soft or flat fire hose" .. 1 inch booster line much better. ( no pressures issues and lighter)Rubber hose heavy but will last on long time better yet Google lightweight fire booster hose and you will see lots of options ( expensive) I have 4 wildland engines and prefer the lightweight booster hose as its much easier to pull up and down slopes... I spend 40 to 80 days each year on the fire line and have been doing it for 20 years... 1 inch booster line is your best bet....don't listen to a structure guy as they will steer you wrong. Everything they deal with relys on larger volume, large hose.. wildland land different animal .. you need speed and light weight. The object is to contain, hold, and keep the fire off valuables... cheers

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Something else to consider... put a sprinkler system in... very effective.. you can just turn on and leave( they may force you to evacuate) I have set up many temporary sprinkler systems for structure defense when one can not defend with a engine for many different reasons...

 

[Aaron_W]

Ok, seriously not being a smart ***, but consider renting some goats for that hillside every spring to reduce the fuels. The best thing you can do to protect your home is reduce your fuel loading.


Wildland firefighters follow the 10 firefighting orders and 18 situations that shout Watch Out. Three of those watchout apply to your location at the top of the slope

Attempting a frontal assault on the fire (fire usually burns uphill, so standing at the top spraying water would be a frontal assault)

Unburned fuel between you and the fire (this would also likely apply)

On a hillside where rolling material can ignite fuel below (even assuming the fire was near the top, and small enough to safely handle, material could roll further down slope so a big fire comes running up at you)


Just to beat a dead horse a little more, you really don't want to be at the top of a slope above a fire even if you are trained and well equipped.


You would probably better off considering a good sprinkler system to wet down the side of your garage and the top of the slope. Wetting the garage will help prevent embers from getting established, and wetting the top of the slope may reduce the intensity as the fire reaches the top. Most importantly you can turn it on and retreat to a safe location.

If you want to have a hose to deal with small fires and be able to catch small spot fires that may start from embers, I agree with Partsguy 57, go with 1" forestry hose. If you have fire impacting your property that needs 1 1/2" hose you really shouldn't be there.

I've had good service from Cascade Fire in Oregon. http://cascadefire.com/

If I were setting something up around my home I'd probably go with 100-200 feet of 1" forestry hose and a 30 gallon per minute adjustable nozzle (wide spray to narrow stream). I would store the hose and nozzle in a box to protect it from the elements, and store it indoors during the winter. You don't want to leave it hanging in the open.

Probably looking at $300-500 not including any plumbing work that may be needed to hook up the hose.

You also might want to consider getting into a basic wildland fire control class. Typically about 40 hours so can be completed over a couple of weekends, or spread over a week. This not only will help keep you safer in the event of a fire, but will also give you a better understanding of what you can do to better prepare your home.


I am not advocating that you stay and protect your property, but understand many choose that option.

 

[Jlbc212]

Do what Partsguy57 and Aaron_W suggested - install a sprinkler system to keep the surfaces of your garage wet. In my days of structural firefighting in a densely packed city of three and four story wooden structures I was always amazed how effective a "small" stream of water was in protecting nearby buildings even with direct flame impingement upon the exposed building. Many of the old, heavy timber, brick mill buildings had a dry pipe sprinkler system at the top of the exterior wall to protect against a fire in a nearby building.

 

[Bretny]

Use sprinklers. The kind nurserys use up on poles. Simple, hands free and not much to rott and leak.

Also keeping the area clear of brush would prob help.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I do wildfire for a living......don't listen to a structure guy as they will steer you wrong. Everything they deal with relys on larger volume, large hose.. wildland land different animal .. you need speed and light weight. The object is to contain, hold, and keep the fire off valuables... cheers

Since you posted right below me and made that comment about structural firefighting guys, you want to tell me where I led him wrong ?

He wants a fire hose, then he needs a water supply for that hose. If he can't supply water, that hose he is going to buy is worthless.

Verifying his location with the hillside ?

Advising him of the danger of the driving wind and heat of a fire ? That's leading him wrong ?

 

[Partsguy57]

I suggested a hose that would work for what he has to deal with.... I was not referring to you and yet you made my point... you go off on a rabbit trail about no water supply and about being at the head or front of the fire... lol always the structure guy thinks of water volumes, ( you would be surprised at how little water is needed to keep fire off a structure vs putting it out) wildland fire guy not so much ( tends to not be a lot available ,) different mind set... 85 psi.... use a hard line ( booster hose) it will be your best bet... for what you have to use... or better yet... a good sprinkler system if you can't defend with 85 psi and good volume you should not be there at that point in many cases... on the structure guy comment, I'll change to most not all.. different mind set ...different set of problems...especially because most do not deal with wildfire much.. feel better now? Cheers

Since you posted right below me and made that comment about structural firefighting guys, you want to tell me where I led him wrong ?

He wants a fire hose, then he needs a water supply for that hose. If he can't supply water, that hose he is going to buy is worthless.

Verifying his location with the hillside ?

Advising him of the danger of the driving wind and heat of a fire ? That's leading him wrong ?

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[Partsguy57]

Another thought don't worry about a nozzle with good fog... you don't have the pressure to make work properly.. wind also greatly affects a fog nozzle. You want a more concentrated water nozzle for distance and dealing with any sort of wind.. remember you are not dealing with putting fire out, you are keeping the fire off the structure... big difference. Be careful of what structure guys say. Not the same issues totally different mindsets and rightly so.

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[Ilikeike]

You have an irrigation line of 1 1/2" flowing 85 psi ? You're moving alot of water.

Where do you get your water and how are you getting 85 PSI ?

Are you on a city system ? On a well/cistern ?

If there is a large fire and the city system may be taxed and you'll get a lower pressure than you want. If you're on a well, will it provide an adequate flow ? Cistern, how big is it ? Well/cistern, do you have an power source if the fire is large enough that the utility company shuts off power in your area ?

Are you at the bottom of the hill side or at the top of the hill side. I have no experience in wildland firefighting but keep in mind, generally fire will burn faster uphill than it will down hill. Then toss in a wind factor.

If you have a driving wind, it may be entirely to hot for you to even be in the area if it gets ahead of you.

This is exactly what I was going to mention.

If you have a large wildfire going on and you're on a city water system,you most likely won't have the water you do now when the fire engines are sucking it all out with their truck mounted pumps.

85psi doesn't sound like a city system though,that's pretty high, so if you're on a well have a generator to run it.
Power companies are now starting to shut down the grid in active fire areas to prevent further issues,or the power lines may already be down due to fire.
At least that is how it's been happening in Ca.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Still needs a water supply for his hose which he is asking about. I don't foresee the OP out there with a shovel, pulaski or a swatter trying to beat down the flames.

His best bet is not to have that fuel load near his home, or cleaned up.

I never mentioned being at the head of a fire, but I did warn him about the wind, which both you and I know can be dangerous whether in wildland or structural firefighting. Most home owners or the public don't realize how dangerous a fire is until it's too late.

BTW, there is new hose, flat/soft stuff that works at 75 psi. Our new nozzles only need 75 psi and the hoses we're getting ready to purchase will more than likely match that lower psi. The 5" LDH we're also looking at weighs about half of what the older stuff weighs, 44lbs for a 100' section (minus the stortz couplings). It's also a rubber type hose so it won't get wet and make it even heavier.

 

[Partsguy57]

You use very little water from the city on most wildland incidents... you are confused and have no experience in wildland...

This is exactly what I was going to mention.

If you have a large wildfire going on and you're on a city water system,you most likely won't have the water you do now when the fire engines are sucking it all out with their truck mounted pumps.

85psi doesn't sound like a city system though,that's pretty high, so if you're on a well have a generator to run it.
Power companies are now starting to shut down the grid in active fire areas to prevent further issues,or the power lines may already be down due to fire.
At least that is how it's been happening in Ca.

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[Partsguy57]

The wind is only a issue when at the head.... you have no wildland experience...

Still needs a water supply for his hose which he is asking about. I don't foresee the OP out there with a shovel, pulaski or a swatter trying to beat down the flames.

His best bet is not to have that fuel load near his home, or cleaned up.

I never mentioned being at the head of a fire, but I did warn him about the wind, which both you and I know can be dangerous whether in wildland or structural firefighting. Most home owners or the public don't realize how dangerous a fire is until it's too late.

BTW, there is new hose, flat/soft stuff that works at 75 psi. Our new nozzles only need 75 psi and the hoses we're getting ready to purchase will more than likely match that lower psi. The 5" LDH we're also looking at weighs about half of what the older stuff weighs, 44lbs for a 100' section (minus the stortz couplings). It's also a rubber type hose so it won't get wet and make it even heavier.

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[ishiboo]

Thank God we have an expert here to tell people when they're not!

 

[NUTTSGT]

You use very little water from the city on most wildland incidents... you are confused and have no experience in wildland...

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The wind is only a issue when at the head.... you have no wildland experience...

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The OP has no experience either, absolutely none in firefighting whatsoever.


Where do you think the OP is going to get his water from ?

 

[Partsguy57]

Different mindset... both are correct but not for the same situations.... wise up... we in the wildland deal with this mindset every year.. sometimes it can be a real problem. Cheers

Thank God we have an expert here to tell people when they're not!

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[Partsguy57]

He has a irrigation water line.. did you not read that? It may be at the pressure gravity... he may have a jet pump on it... it may have a pressure pump from irrigation .

The OP has no experience either, absolutely none in firefighting whatsoever.


Where do you think the OP is going to get his water from ?

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[Partsguy57]

Thank God we have an expert here to tell people when they're not!

Lol nuttstg Ohio? You Wisconsin? Hot beds of wildfire....

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[NUTTSGT]

He has a irrigation water line.. did you not read that? It may be at the pressure gravity... he may have a jet pump on it... it may have a pressure pump from irrigation source....

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Yes, I read it and if you read my first post, I asked him about his water source.

It doesn't matter what type of fire fighting you're doing, if you're using a hose, you need a water source. The OP has never stated what the source is or where he gets his water from.

 

[Partsguy57]

Yes, I read it and if you read my first post, I asked him about his water source.

It doesn't matter what type of fire fighting you're doing, if you're using a hose, you need a water source. The OP has never stated what the source is or where he gets his water from.

I gave him a clear answer on what to use based on his information you did not a simple reading of his original post will confirm this have a great day

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[shoe1]

I agree with the goat idea or sheep to clean up fuel load. That is what I have been trying around hear because no one wants to mow run down junky places. As far as hose goes 1" foresty line would work ok. If good water supply maybe adding a gas water pump would help. Around here lots of farmers have 1000 gal water tote trailers with 2" pump. I have helped set up 25" 1 1/2 lines with red plastic nozzles for fire protection. They are no means a fire truck for structure fires but they work great for grass fires. I would be changing roof out to metal if I could also. Yes water supply is important if you are on a well need your own power. I not sure where others get water for wildland fire but we do haul most of ours from town water supply some from Irrigation wells. No natural standing water around here. No helicopter support to far from water source. So yes that can effect your water if on city water system. But like to see some one taking responsibility to protect themselves.

 

[shoe1]

Also for hose might talk with local fire department. We give hose away for small donation when we change out hose on trucks.

 

[Ilikeike]

You use very little water from the city on most wildland incidents... you are confused and have no experience in wildland...

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Nope I don't, but if there is a hydrant there,I'm pretty sure it would get used.
I just work on the supply side.

 

[denis4x4]

I have two 10HP Honda powered pumps with 2" intake and 1-1/2" out valves with 1000' of fire retardant flat hose. Water source is a stock pond and irrigation ditch. During the 416 fire that started 6/1/18 half a mile east of our house, we ran Rainbirds with a 90' radius to keep things wet. We also have our own gravity flow 300 gallon gas tank. In the past, one of the first things to go is the power, thus making electric pumps worthless.

When you buy a 2X4 at Home Depot, the moisture content is often times 20% or more. Trees in SW Colorado are less than 5% right now. The exceptions are those on the irrigation ditches.

 

[BFBOB]

Ok, seriously not being a smart ***, but consider renting some goats for that hillside every spring to reduce the fuels.

I see what you did there :

 

[Partsguy57]

Nope I don't, but if there is a hydrant there,I'm pretty sure it would get used.
I just work on the supply side.

The problem is there is very few hydrants in the wild land that's why it's a wild land by definition....

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[Ilikeike]

The problem is there is very few hydrants in the wild land that's why it's a wild land by definition....

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Yeah, not much city water like I was talking about in my post in a wild land fire.

 

[shoe1]

The problem is there is very few hydrants in the wild land that's why it's a wild land by definition....

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But those tenders are getting water from some where to fill you up. Maybe from natural water source? But around my area it is out of the ground and that most of the time that is a city water source. During Badger hole fire I was having Tenders (tankers in my world) pulling water out of both (2 city water systems) in my county to keep up with just my county's part of that fire. The small system, we were taxing and had to send trucks another 10 mile to larger small town for water.

 

[nes999]

Wildland fire fighters, because structure fire fighters need heros too...

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[rlitman]

...Where do you get your water and how are you getting 85 PSI ?
Are you on a city system ? On a well/cistern ?
If there is a large fire and the city system may be taxed ...

...Are you at the bottom of the hill side or at the top of the hill side. I have no experience in wildland firefighting but keep in mind, generally fire will burn faster uphill than it will down hill. Then toss in a wind factor.

If you have a driving wind, it may be entirely to hot for you to even be in the area if it gets ahead of you.

Good points. I wouldn't want to be spraying down from the top of a burning hill, or be trusting my life to a water supply I can't count on (keeping in mind that firefighters will be putting a heavy toll on any city water, if there is any, and electricity will likely not be available to run a pump when SHTF).

...Something else to consider... put a sprinkler system in... very effective.. you can just turn on and leave( they may force you to evacuate) I have set up many temporary sprinkler systems for structure defense when one can not defend with a engine for many different reasons...

I think you're onto something here. Turn on and leave seems to me to be the wisest choice.

If the water supply is adequate, you could plumb your sprinklers with 1-1/2" or even 2" PVC pipe, to get more of a flow than you could ever get out of a hose small enough to handle. Think golf course irrigation, and forget the hose. Or maybe just have a smaller hose as a supplement.

If you want to get more bang for your buck when it comes to your prevention sprinkler system, consider something that injects a retardant. Anything that thickens (into a foam or gel) the water, will mean more water on your roof and walls, and less runoff, which in turn means longer lasting protection. Plus borates or less friendly chemicals slow burning. You could easily run the plumbing through a venturi that ***** in your liquid concentrate retardant from a drum. The only issue I see with this is that when the drum is empty, you'll wash the retardant off with plain water. Maybe a timer valve would help...need to think this through.

 

[ChaseDE]

I really like the sprinkler idea as a former NICET licensed sprinkler system designer. With a 1.5" line @ 85 PSI he could setup a nice little system out back with a manual valve should he ever need it.

At the beach though, no idea where that is, does it freeze? etc. That would decide what piping and such would be suitable.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wildland fire fighters, because structure fire fighters need heros too...

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You've not heard me bash the wildland guys, those guys bust their ***, sometimes as a small group all by themselves. They have my respect for what they do.


I've never tried to stop learning during my career. I learned early on, to respect those guys. One of our instructors at the academy was a wildland firefighter instructor and certified guys going through that class. He told us point blank, "only a ***** tries to corner a fire in a building." That was 18 plus years ago and I remember those words to this day.


As far as heros go, I prefer to save that for those men, women and K-9s that have made the ultimate sacrifice serving this fine nation of ours.

 

[Partsguy57]

Lets not forget the most unsung "hero" group there is... the men and women ( taxpayer) of this country that float this whole public sector( by going to work and paying taxes)and everything else that goes on in this country. Without them there would be no public sector heros....

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[nes999]

You've not heard me bash the wildland guys, those guys bust their ***, sometimes as a small group all by themselves. They have my respect for what they do.


I've never tried to stop learning during my career. I learned early on, to respect those guys. One of our instructors at the academy was a wildland firefighter instructor and certified guys going through that class. He told us point blank, "only a ***** tries to corner a fire in a building." That was 18 plus years ago and I remember those words to this day.


As far as heros go, I prefer to save that for those men, women and K-9s that have made the ultimate sacrifice serving this fine nation of ours.

I only said that in jest. I really really should have said something prior to that statement to clarify that.

Ive worked with both wildland firefighters and structure guys working working SAR. They've both had made sure my hide got back home just as crispy as it left. That doesnt mean there isnt a little ribbing that goes around.

 

[tez929rr]

Jeez, how did some intelligent questions for the OP turn into a wildland versus structure ******* contest? NUTTSGT did his best to try to give good advice. We fight lots of wildland here as well as structure; knowing how the OP feeds his water line is essential to knowing if his solution or a sprinkler system will work.

 

[Partsguy57]

Jeez, how did some intelligent questions for the OP turn into a wildland versus structure ******* contest? NUTTSGT did his best to try to give good advice. We fight lots of wildland here as well as structure; knowing how the OP feeds his water line is essential to knowing if his solution or a sprinkler system will work.

You said it... questions... but at the same time did not answer the OP questions.... there is no way to ever know what the water situation will be as a zillion things can affect that. The constant and his question is what type of hose to use based on what he thinks he will have. You cannot predict on if or how much water he will have.... I based my answer on that knowing a booster type line over traditional fire is a better choice especially if water pressure or volume goes down...

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[Partsguy57]

To those that want to play the water game....the OP at some time may have no water pressure or volume. What hose should he use?

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