Fire Safety: Gas or Electric Dryer

[Vintage Veloce]

So, having fuels and other stuff in the garage...
What is the consensus on whether a gas or electric dryer is safer in the garage?
I know there are other fire causes, like clogged vents, but I'm asking about the possible ignition of fumes by the dryer.
Carl

 

[Jlarson]

I put them at about the same, vent fires are the most common, dryers igniting fumes are pretty few and far between. A lot of them seem to be due to dumb choices, putting a gas can right next to the dryer or a heap of soaked rags.

The gas dryer will have to be elevated. I think California enforces that state wide now in California building or mechanical code.

I'm gonna add that the IRC says any appliance with an ignition source has to be elevated 18". Application seems to widely very, some jurisdictions apply that to only gas, some gas and electric and some neither.

 

[tfi racing]

All depends what you do in that garage,the last thing I want is my clean clothes smelling like the stinky oily,greasy,smoky grindy stuff that is always going on in mine...

 

[Norcal]

I would assume a gas dryer would have to be on a raised platform like a gas water heater, otherwise normal precautions /maintenance would be the same.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

On raising the appliances, does the washer have to be raised too? I'd hope stacking the dryer above the washer would be enough...
Can anyone point to the CA code that says this stuff? Googling isn't helping me there...
C

 

[Zeke]

I've not heard of a requirement to elevate a clothes dryer in the garage but those appliance bases they sell now are great for getting the dryer door up to a nice elevation AFA putting in and taking out the clothes. Plus they have a drawer for storage so you're getting some real estate back in the garage for that purpose. Shoot, I've been thinking about putting my dryer on top of 2 of those things. Washer is a top load.

RE your question about fire hazard, I'd say it depends but you do need to keep the vent clean. I think fires occur when the high limit switch fails. Electric dryers use a lot of energy.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ive never heard of a code requirement to have a gas dryer elevated. The house i live in now, built in '96 has a gas dryer hookup right at garage floor level. The water heater and furnace/air handler is on an elevated platform...

 

[Evan(CA)]

I would never ever buy an electric dryer. The difference in cost to operate them is huge. Using electricity for any heating device is incredibly inefficient.

There is no code requirement for raising a gas dryer off the floor. It's required for a water heater because they use a pilot light, gas dryers use an igniter.

 

[Jlarson]

Ive never heard of a code requirement to have a gas dryer elevated.

The interpretation of the code and application widely varies, even inspector to inspector in some jurisdictions.

There is no code requirement for raising a gas dryer off the floor. It's required for a water heater because they use a pilot light, gas dryers use an igniter.

Only appliances specifically listed as ignition resistant or some verbiage are exempt. It's also a spec of many dryer manufacturers.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would never ever buy an electric dryer. The difference in cost to operate them is huge. Using electricity for any heating device is incredibly inefficient.

ABSOLUTELY !

I know propane is very expensive, but if you use it for just hot water, cooking and clothes drying, I think you would actually save money over running the same appliances of electric.

 

[Highbeam]

ABSOLUTELY !

I know propane is very expensive, but if you use it for just hot water, cooking and clothes drying, I think you would actually save money over running the same appliances of electric.

Absolutely NOT. Ha! Opinions eh?

Depending on your local costs, electric resistance heat can be cheaper than propane heat. You do not save money using propane for clothes drying in this case and electric is cheaper.

Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient.

 

[Showkey]

Cost of fuel comparison

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/heatcalc.xls

You do have to adjust pricing for your location.

Under Nat gas and propane they do not show 90% plus furnaces.

For electricity you might have to add KW charge and delivery charge to get a true cost in some locations.

 

[ripperd]

All depends what you do in that garage,the last thing I want is my clean clothes smelling like the stinky oily,greasy,smoky grindy stuff that is always going on in mine...

Agreed, I think this is a bigger issue as long as the dryer is elevated.

 

[Dyt]

It might be practical for you to look at an outdoor HazMat cabinet.

 

[86turbodsl]

I would never ever buy an electric dryer. The difference in cost to operate them is huge. Using electricity for any heating device is incredibly inefficient.

There is no code requirement for raising a gas dryer off the floor. It's required for a water heater because they use a pilot light, gas dryers use an igniter.

Not always a true statement. I ran the calcs once when propane was a bit higher than now, and it comes out cheaper to go electric. for reference, my electric is running 0.11 / kwh, and my propane is about $1 / gal.

I can tell you WITHOUT doubt that brewing beer with electric vs propane is about 2X cheaper. For reference.

 

[ddawg16]

Absolutely NOT. Ha! Opinions eh?

Depending on your local costs, electric resistance heat can be cheaper than propane heat. You do not save money using propane for clothes drying in this case and electric is cheaper.

Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient.

^^ That statement cracks me up every time. Yes, 100% of the electric energy going into that resistive element is generating heat. Just like that 60w of electricity going into an incandescent light bulb is generating heat.

Funny thing....put 7w of electrical energy into an LED bulb and you will get just as much light as the 60w incand bulb.

So, what were you saying about efficiency?

Anyway....I digress....

Here is a link that does a 'somewhat' viable comparison. You have to factor in the fact the site is pushing gas and is trying to make it look better. But if you use the 'usage' numbers they list and then plug in your real costs, you get a quick idea. Even without their bias, Gas looks better.

Bottom line, natural gas is almost half the cost per year. Of course, the more you use it, the more your costs/savings.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

There is no code requirement for raising a gas dryer off the floor. It's required for a water heater because they use a OPEN pilot light, gas dryers use an ENCLOSED igniter.

Added to your post just a bit.

Most newer water heaters do not have standing pilots. Haven't seen one in years.

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

^^ That statement cracks me up every time. Yes, 100% of the electric energy going into that resistive element is generating heat. Just like that 60w of electricity going into an incandescent light bulb is generating heat.

Funny thing....put 7w of electrical energy into an LED bulb and you will get just as much light as the 60w incand bulb.

So, what were you saying about efficiency?

Anyway....I digress....

Your comparison is flawed. Electric resistance heat IS 100% efficient. Heat pumps can be way MORE effiecient. They produce more heat for the same amount of electrical power consumed.

A light bulb is designed to make LIGHT, not heat. Heat from a light bulb is a byproduct of wasted energy. A 60 watt bulb does NOT make 60 watts of heat. It USES 60 watts of electricity. LEDS can make the same amount of light as a 60 watt incandescant bulb by using only 7 watts of electricity because there is so little energy wasted from heat.

Apples to oranges...

Tommy

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I would never ever buy an electric dryer. The difference in cost to operate them is huge. Using electricity for any heating device is incredibly inefficient.

There is no code requirement for raising a gas dryer off the floor. It's required for a water heater because they use a pilot light, gas dryers use an igniter.

Electricity is inefficient for heating? When was the last time you saw a flue pipe on an electric furnace or water heater? Even a 96% gas furnace has a flue pipe,how efficient is that?
Try running a gas dryer without a vent pipe and tell me about how efficient it is.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

^^ That statement cracks me up every time. Yes, 100% of the electric energy going into that resistive element is generating heat. Just like that 60w of electricity going into an incandescent light bulb is generating heat.

Funny thing....put 7w of electrical energy into an LED bulb and you will get just as much light as the 60w incand bulb.

So, what were you saying about efficiency?

Anyway....I digress....

Here is a link that does a 'somewhat' viable comparison. You have to factor in the fact the site is pushing gas and is trying to make it look better. But if you use the 'usage' numbers they list and then plug in your real costs, you get a quick idea. Even without their bias, Gas looks better.

Bottom line, natural gas is almost half the cost per year. Of course, the more you use it, the more your costs/savings.

The only reason that natural gas is cheaper is because the government wants it that way,all the rules and regs on electric power plants have been driving up prices for years.
Just wait till they decide they don't like natural gas and see what happens to prices.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Your comparison is flawed. Electric resistance heat IS 100% efficient. Heat pumps can be way MORE effiecient. They produce more heat for the same amount of electrical power consumed.

A light bulb is designed to make LIGHT, not heat. Heat from a light bulb is a byproduct of wasted energy. A 60 watt bulb does NOT make 60 watts of heat. It USES 60 watts of electricity. LEDS can make the same amount of light as a 60 watt incandescant bulb by using only 7 watts of electricity because there is so little energy wasted from heat.

Apples to oranges...

Tommy

 

[ddawg16]

Your comparison is flawed. Electric resistance heat IS 100% efficient. Heat pumps can be way MORE effiecient. They produce more heat for the same amount of electrical power consumed.

A light bulb is designed to make LIGHT, not heat. Heat from a light bulb is a byproduct of wasted energy. A 60 watt bulb does NOT make 60 watts of heat. It USES 60 watts of electricity. LEDS can make the same amount of light as a 60 watt incandescant bulb by using only 7 watts of electricity because there is so little energy wasted from heat.

Apples to oranges...

Tommy

My comparison is not flawed. And, boy, do you have a lack of understanding of the incandescent light bulb....and where the energy goes. If that bulb uses 60w of energy, where does it go? Do you really think you are getting 60w of light? If you could 'capture' all that light, would it be 60w?

And you contradict yourself in the same paragraph. The heat pump is just another example of how x-amount of energy can produce more work. LED light bulb....produces more light for less energy....heat pump produces more heat with less energy.

You didn't do well in science did you?

 

[reader2580]

The only reason that natural gas is cheaper is because the government wants it that way,all the rules and regs on electric power plants have been driving up prices for years.
Just wait till they decide they don't like natural gas and see what happens to prices.

Natural gas has been cheaper for heating than electricity for decades. The price of natural gas has occasionally spiked quite high, but overall it has been cheaper than electricity.

Air source heat pumps can be cheaper than natural gas, but they don't work well in places like Minnesota where it gets very cold in the winter. Geothermal heat pumps cost less to run, but the up front costs are sky high.

 

[larry_g]

My comparison is not flawed. And, boy, do you have a lack of understanding of the incandescent light bulb....and where the energy goes. If that bulb uses 60

Your flaw is that the conversation was on propane and heat and you bring natural gas and light into the discussion. Apples and Oranges.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ddawg16]

Your flaw is that the conversation was on propane and heat and you bring natural gas and light into the discussion. Apples and Oranges.

lg
no neat sig line

I guess you didn't read my first post where I directly answered the OP's question.

 

[larry_g]

I guess you didn't read my first post where I directly answered the OP's question.

I guess your first post got deleted, Post #16 is not about a dryer. It is a response to Highbeams post which has nothing to do with the OP's question either for that matter.

Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient.

You cannot disprove that with a relationship to a LED light bulb. Now you may argue that there are more cost effective methods as a source of heat, but if your going to argue the statement then point out where the electric resistance heater is not 100% efficient, and I'll give you the heaters that heat to the point of glowing and some of the used energy is converted to light.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ddawg16]

I'm not trying to disprove the statement that resistant heaters are 100% efficient, what I'm trying to show is that it's misleading. It 'implies' that electric resistive heating is 100% efficient, or, no losses. What I'm trying to show is for a given amount of energy input, it's doing less work than other methods.

Hence, the comparison to the LED bulb is accurate. For a given amount of energy, an LED bulb puts out more light than the incandescent.

 

[VHF]

I didn’t intend to write such a long post that is drifting off the original topic, but there is a lot of good discussion here!

Let's assume two bulbs that both produce 750 lumens. One is a 60W incandescent bulb and one is a 9W LED bulb. A certain amount of energy is required to actually make the light--I don't know the exact amount, but for purposes of discussion let's assume it is 3W. In that case, the incandescent bulb is wasting 57W as heat, and the LED bulb is wasting 6W as heat.

Of course, that is an oversimplification, especially in the case of the incandescent bulb which also puts out infrared (IR) radiation. Should that be counted as light or heat?

(There are a few "IR" incandescent blubs which convert some of the IR radiation to visible light, therefore giving more useful light per watt consumed. Headlights on the Dodge Viper used a bulb like this. Same 55W as a regular headlight bulb, but more light output. Was around $120 each for the bulb at the dealer a few years ago. I think this technology is now available in a few bulbs for home use, and probably has a somewhat limited use for those applications where CFL or LED isn’t suitable.)

Electric resistance heating is 100% efficient—all of the energy in the electricity is converted to heat. But that is once you’ve gotten the electricity to the point of use. If you look at the big picture including the generating plant and transmission lines, using electric heat is probably only about 33% efficient.

This is why running an electric dryer costs 3 times as much as running a dryer on natural gas, even though the electric power plant might be powered by that same natural gas. Same thing with a gas furnace vs. electric heat. It isn’t really a 96% efficient gas furnace vs. 100% efficient electric heat; it is a 96% efficient gas furnace vs. 33% overall efficient electric heat. So the gas furnace wins out in overall efficiency.

(Although some propane is a byproduct of refining other petroleum products, propane doesn’t offer the same economic advantage as natural gas because it needs to be refined, stored, transported, stored, and delivered. All these processing and handling steps are reflected in the cost, which is also influenced by the price of oil.)

 

[VHF]

So, back to the original question...

So, having fuels and other stuff in the garage...
What is the consensus on whether a gas or electric dryer is safer in the garage?

I would argue that neither one is safe around fuel fumes. Both have electric motors, typically with brushes that can produce sparks. Both get very hot, one with a flame, one with an electric resistance coil, but I suspect either one could trigger the ignition of gasoline vapors.

Higher is probably better given the tendency of gasoline vapors to sink.

Sharing the garage with modern cars shouldn’t pose a big threat as long as the gas cap is tight, and I wouldn’t worry too much about gas cans, again as long as the cap is tight and the can is in a different area of the garage. I would worry more about sharing the garage with old cars and small engines (lawnmowers, etc.) that have more of a tendency to vent gasoline fumes when parked. If you are going to do work in the garage that produces fumes I would avoid operation of the laundry equipment until the fumes have dissipated.

In some parts of the country it is typical to find laundry equipment in the garage, with either gas or electric dryers depending on the region. This has been common for over 50 years. So I think in actual practice it hasn’t been a big problem. Of course, exposed standing-pilot gas water heaters sitting on the garage floor were also once typical, and evidently that was enough of a problem to require raising them 18” and addition of a safety screen on new water heaters.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ This. The "requirement" to have gas appliances raised up off floor in garage is for the Oh ****/Idiot factor if whole 5 gal can of gasoline was dumped on floor in garage next to gas appliance. Raising up is safety factor.

OP needs to tell us whether he has electrical capability to run a 240volt dryer in garage, as he may need to upgrade subpanel. Thus, if the garage was already setup with a Natural Gas supply, then I'd surely go NG. If plenty of electrical power in garage, then electric might be best for convenience (ie no flue requirement).

Most stackable sets of washer/dryer has the dryer on top anyway. I think apartment sized stackabe set would be ideal in garage and electric dryer is most common.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Electricity is inefficient for heating? When was the last time you saw a flue pipe on an electric furnace or water heater? Even a 96% gas furnace has a flue pipe,how efficient is that?
Try running a gas dryer without a vent pipe and tell me about how efficient it is.

You can see giant flues on the coal plant that made your electricity but I was speaking from a cost stand point. Electric heaters use a ton of power and here in California electricity is FAR more expensive than NG, especially when you factor in tiered pricing.

 

[Ironhorse74]

The CEO of the local gas utility was fond of saying "Heating with electricity is like washing dishes with scotch. It works but it's damn expensive"

Brad

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My comparison is not flawed. And, boy, do you have a lack of understanding of the incandescent light bulb....and where the energy goes. If that bulb uses 60w of energy, where does it go? Do you really think you are getting 60w of light? If you could 'capture' all that light, would it be 60w?

And you contradict yourself in the same paragraph. The heat pump is just another example of how x-amount of energy can produce more work. LED light bulb....produces more light for less energy....heat pump produces more heat with less energy.

You didn't do well in science did you?

The flaw is in trying to compare light output and heat output. Heat is measured in watts. Light is measured in lumens. You can't directly compare two different measurements of two different forms of energy. That's the flaw.

Everything you just said above said AGREES with my statements. You just asked if I thought a 60 watt bulb makes 60 watts of light. My original post directly stated it doesn't.

I did very well in science. I am 100% correct on the incandescent light bulb. I think it is you who needs to learn how it works and what it's ratings actually mean. An incadescent light bulb is only 5% efficient. Only 5% of the electricity it uses is made into light. The ohter 95% of the electricity it uses his made into heat. An electric strip heater puts out the same exact amount of heat energy as the amount of electricity it uses, it is 100% efficient.

A typical 60W incandescent bulb will make a maximum of roughly 16 lumens/watt. A typical 9 watt CFL can make around 46 lumens/watt. A typical 6.9 watt LED makes roughly between 55-85 lumens/watt.

Your last paragraph mirrors exactly what I originally said. How is any of it it a contradiction?

Tommy

 

[Elginz]

I don't think you will find any gas cheaper than my 5 cents a Kw.
Like was said both have motors.
You want to get gassed or electrocuted, both have electricity, with the gas you add another element of possible leaks.

 

[reader2580]

Natural gas at 90% efficiency is still cheaper than 5 cent per KW electricity for heating until natural gas hits $1.50 per therm. Now, if you can heat with an air source heat pump or geothermal then electricity will be cheaper.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Absolutely NOT. Ha! Opinions eh?

Depending on your local costs, electric resistance heat can be cheaper than propane heat. You do not save money using propane for clothes drying in this case and electric is cheaper.

Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient.

U obviously have NO experience with electric rates in California. Natural gas IS cheaper than electric for heating. Ive personally experienced this!

Not always a true statement. I ran the calcs once when propane was a bit higher than now, and it comes out cheaper to go electric. for reference, my electric is running 0.11 / kwh, and my propane is about $1 / gal.

I can tell you WITHOUT doubt that brewing beer with electric vs propane is about 2X cheaper. For reference.

My electric rates in the summer is 16.5 cents upto 500kwh and 18.5 cents after that. Natural gas IS cheaper for heating for us folks in California. U guys out east have cheaper electric rates!

You can see giant flues on the coal plant that made your electricity but I was speaking from a cost stand point. Electric heaters use a ton of power and here in California electricity is FAR more expensive than NG, especially when you factor in tiered pricing.

Yup! Electric rates in California are a RIP OFF!

I don't think you will find any gas cheaper than my 5 cents a Kw.
Like was said both have motors.
You want to get gassed or electrocuted, both have electricity, with the gas you add another element of possible leaks.

5 cents per Kw? HA! My rates is almost 4x yours. Of course electric heating would be cheaper than natural gas at 5 cents per kwh!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This guy made a great spreadsheet that compares the costs of gas vs. electric dryers.

For some reason the link to the spreadsheet doesnt work anymore. I have emailed him and am waiting for a response. Once i hear back and get the link I will post the spreadsheet up. Its fun to plug in the numbers and see what u get!

https://www.jimcarson.com/2005/gas-versus-electric-dryer-ii/

 

[Highbeam]

U obviously have NO experience with electric rates in California. Natural gas IS cheaper than electric for heating. Ive personally experienced this!

That's why I said, "Depending on local costs". This varies all across the country.

Oh and your dryer won't be burning gas at 90% efficiency. Try less than 80%.

 

[Milton Shaw]

The fire explosion hazard from gas water heaters in garages, is that they can come on at any time 24/7. This could be in the middle of the night where no one was in the garage. A gas dryer/washer in the garage cannot come on any time, just when someone turns it on. So they do not require 18" rise under them in garage. You would not turn on gas dryer if you smelled strong gas smell in house/garage. A water heater cannot smell a gas leak so it could come on at any time and cause fire/explosion. Neither gas nor electric dryer is 100 % efficient or the air coming out the vent would be room temp. Either type removes conditioned air from the house (heated or cooled) and use energy in that air replacement.

 

[Jlarson]

The fire explosion hazard from gas water heaters in garages, is that they can come on at any time 24/7. This could be in the middle of the night where no one was in the garage. A gas dryer/washer in the garage cannot come on any time, just when someone turns it on. So they do not require 18" rise under them in garage. You would not turn on gas dryer if you smelled strong gas smell in house/garage. A water heater cannot smell a gas leak so it could come on at any time and cause fire/explosion....

The code making panels don't see it that way.