Fire safety part 2 - when it happens

[Woods_Wanderer]

A while back we had a really good discussion about tips and best practices for avoiding fires in the garage/shop. Well, today I was the first bystander on scene to a fire at an enclosed home garage in a neighborhood near my workplace.

The homeowner was out safely when I got there but was both in shock and busy trying to talk to emergency dispatch. Unfortunately, the garage was fully engulfed already, smoke was coming out of the windows of the home, and his dog did not make it out. I don't know what happened in the initial couple of minutes except that the fire was started in some way by a space heater in the garage, and that the homeowner left the house through the main garage door leaving all the other exits closed and locked.

So with that said, I thought it would be good to talk about being prepared to react to a major fire if and when it does actually happen. I know we all have it drilled into us as children, but when's the last time you actually checked your alarms and fire extinguishers? Do you have a plan to evacuate the house, including reluctant pets?

 

[engineer2]

Good questions! Prevention is key.
We no longer allow the use of candles in our house.
No unattended cooking and no space heaters.
We have stickers on the front and back doors alerting first responders to the number and types of pets.
Heated garage with a standing pilot, but a sealed burner.
No gas cans in the garage. They stay in the shed.
Heat sensor alarm and CO alarm in the garage. Interconnected smoke alarms for the house.
I've considered a sprinkler system in the garage. Perhaps one you could turn on manually just before you run out the door.
My fire extinguishers need to be checked by a pro. Two 20lb Amerex dry chemical and a 5 lb CO2. I wonder what they charge for service?
Thanks for reminding me to clean the clothes dryer vent.

 

[driftpin]

Any actions you can take, previously discussed, do them if you can. An ounce of prevention... . Don't bother with plastic valves on extinguishers, buy metal ones. Dry chem makes a mess, but they do most extinguishment you're likely to encounter in a homeowner incident. If you have any double-keyed deadbolts, get rid of them.

Retired ff/paramedic, fire service instructor, fire inspector, plans examiner, EMS educator

 

[bored350]

If you have any double-keyed deadbolts, get rid of them.

Please elaborate on this statement.

 

[reader2580]

Please elaborate on this statement.

You need to be able unlock the deadbolt from the inside in an emergency without having to hunt for a key. If you leave the key in the lock you might as well switch to a deadbolt that unlocks with a lever on them side.

You might think you can leave the key a few feet away and just grab it in an emergency. What happens when the house is full of smoke so you can’t see the key to unlock the door?

 

[PJorgen]

Please elaborate on this statement.

If the key on the inside is not present in the lock, you are effectively locked in your house.

 

[BigGarage]

Please elaborate on this statement.

I had never heard of them so I googled it. They are deadbolts that need a key to be opened on both sides of the door. Thieves can't break a window and reach in and unlock the door.

I would expect they could limit escaping a house fire if you needed a key to exit your house. It seems they are mostly used on businesses.

Dennis

 

[Garcky]

Please elaborate on this statement.

Those are deadbolts that require a key on both sides. They're less safe than deadbolts you can unlock without a key from inside. I've seen houses with double-keyed deadbolts. I always ask the owner where the key for the inside is. More often than not, the owner can't remember, but remembers that the key is with his other keys, which are in his pants pocket or her purse. If there's a fire, you might not have time to find your pants or purse or put them on.

When I was working as a handyman, I replaced a lot of that type of deadbolt after explaining the risk to the homeowner.

 

[bored350]

I'm familiar with what they are (I use them on some of my doors for the specific purpose they serve). My request is for the opinion of why not to use them. I believe like any other tool, there are inherit risks vs. rewards to be considered and proper training/preparation significantly impacts the risk/reward ratio.

 

[Metal-Marc]

They are deadbolts that need a key to be opened on both sides of the door. Thieves can't break a window and reach in and unlock the door.

This.

I have them in my house and my garage. If a thieve breaks in, they will have to work harder to get out with my stuff. I also have a door knob lock which I use during the day when I'm inside, so I don't need the deadbolt.

As for the case of if there is a fire, I leave the key in the main door deadbolt for the night.

 

[honcho]

This.

I have them in my house and my garage. If a thieve breaks in, they will have to work harder to get out with my stuff. I also have a door knob lock which I use during the day when I'm inside, so I don't need the deadbolt.

As for the case of if there is a fire, I leave the key in the main door deadbolt for the night.

I have relatives that have them on both the security storm door (steel grill and glass) and their entrance door. They also have an alarm system they activate at night. I'm always a bit unnerved as a guest in their house when they lock down for the night as the two deadbolts require different keys and while I know where they keep a set of keys, if a fire were to break out, I'm not sure anyone could undo the locks in a timely manner and we have an elderly parent who we would have to get downstairs first.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I've had to put out a vehicle fire in a friend's driveway. I think the key to getting any fire out is having fire extinguishers close by. He had proper fire extinguishers close by. In my case it was an electrical fire, so having my organized toolbox made a huge difference as I was able to quickly grab the right tools to pull the battery cables. He blasted the fire extinguishers while I held my breath and turned wrenches. We now have an agreement that I drink his beer for free, for life!

I've always had a fear of fire, so I keep plenty of extinguishers close by. I actually have 2 that I'm mounting in new vehicles. FWIW, I use ABC for everything home/auto. Quality extinguishers **** to buy, but they're cheap if they save your ***!

 

[engineer2]

I briefly dated a girl and she pointed out my double-lock front door. I told her I was not home all day and it was so no one could break the door glass and get in. I told her the kitchen door was a conventional lock and she could leave any time she liked. But she didn't after a couple of drinks....

 

[driftpin]

Sure, I get the double-deadbolt thing, "you'll have to work harder to get my stuff!" However, I think an alarm is a better solution, because in the panic of a fire, you may not be able to locate the required key. Ever see the door sign, "this door to remain unlocked during occupancy?"

If you choose to lock yourself in, and something happens, where you're trapped and die, will your life insurance pay-off? Maybe a question to ask.

A tip for fire retardancy, if you don't have a piece of 5/8" fire-rated gypsum board on your attic scuttle hole, get one up there. You can use corner bead molding to give it a non-crumbling edge.

It's probably cheaper to buy another fire extinguisher than it is to have it serviced. Then you have a 'back-up.' It's a good idea to have them placed next to a means of egress, where you don't have to dig through a cabinet or past stacked-up things to reach it, and to use it. You also might contact your local fire dept to see if they have any citizens' awareness programs to teach you how to use whatever types of extinguishers you need for your hazards. A 5 lb A-B-C (a 10 lb is better) should suffice for many people. Dry chemical extinguishers, aim at the base of the flames, not the flames leaping into the air. In a kitchen, turning off the fuel supply, if possible, is going to help, as is putting a lid on a flaming pot, rather than trying to throw water onto boiling, burning oil, which will probably explode and cause you a world of hurt. Trying to remove the flaming pot from the stove is another mistake.

Working fire investigations, it was not uncommon to see one 'kitchen fire' happen in a neighborhood, and after that homeowner gets an insurance re-model. other 'kitchen fires' occur in the vicinity.

I just went to a reunion of Florida paid firefighters yesterday, and just listening to the stories, you thank god you made it through to retirement.

 

[redrunner]

I have done the fire thing in my detached shop. It was small lots of smoke damage. Things I learned from it.
1. Have fire extinguishers all around the shop. (I had them but they did not put it out.)
2. Get some cooking/grease fire extinguishers, these put out the fire better.
3. Phone in the shop or carry a cell phone.
4. Call the fire dept ASAP. I tried to put it out before calling, wasted a good few minutes.
5. The FD vented out the smoke fast.
6. Don't fool around pull the fire extinguisher fast.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Having gone into the home of my handicapped neighbor during a grease fire that spread, I can tell you that finding your *** with both hands may be a challenge. The smoke is a nasty, acrid thing that quickly has you wondering if you can get out even standing next to an open door. Operating a deadbolt would be tough, much less trying to find a key, inserting it and turning it.

Locking a double-keyed deadbolt while someone is in the house is a pretty risky thing.

 

[pr3dict]

Personally I have a 2.5 gallon class A water extinguisher in my shop. Water is the best way to take away the "heat" element of the fire triangle which will put out a fire. The way I look at it is most of the things that will go on fire in my shop is a class a combustible. Even a class C fire turns into a class A after the electricity is gone and I dont think the risk of class B fires is great enough to go with another extinguisher type.

In the house it's an abc dry chem extinguisher. CO2 extinguishers are ****... Fire alarm in the house with central station monitoring to take that delay out of the equation...

At the end of the day though fire prevention is key. Too many synthetics and petroleum based products in houses these days will have your entire house in flames before a fire truck gets there with an abundance of water to put it out.

 

[tinmanwpk]

There is enough glass throughout a house that having a double keyed deadbolt is crazy. Any good thief will just break a window to get in, and he can get out the same way. Life's too short. Just have a single keyed deadbolt and give yourself a chance.

 

[KSJeff]

If you are paranoid like me and don't want to use a double keyed deadbolt, I would strongly consider installing and showing your family how these work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D2K367Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have them installed on all my in swinging doors and lock up the place at night. They are easy to open. I install them about 1/4 of the way down the door and it realy sturdies up the door.

 

[KSJeff]

Link came out odd. You can search amazon for this:

Defender Security U 10827 Door Reinforcement Lock​

 

[Steve_P]

There is enough glass throughout a house that having a double keyed deadbolt is crazy. Any good thief will just break a window to get in, and he can get out the same way. Life's too short. Just have a single keyed deadbolt and give yourself a chance.

I'd never heard of a double keyed deadbolt until this thread.

One of my uncles had a farm, his nearest neighbors were almost a mile away, and my uncle didn't even bother to lock his front door when he left the house. I asked about this (I was a kid at the time), and he said that he'd already had his house robbed twice with the door locked; they just break the door down, or break out a window, so what's the point locking the door? He said that he didn't even know where the key was for the front door. Obviously, this isn't a good idea in a populated area, but in his situation, it made sense after he explained it.

Speaking of smoke detectors, a neighbor two houses down, 100+ yds, has had the smoke detector chirping in his garage for ~3 years. I swear. I can hear it in my driveway when I'm outside, and I can hear it even if he has his garage door closed! No idea how those idiots can all sleep at nite with that thing chirping.

 

[ycgoat]

I put in the double dead bolt, because I had a hooligan son who would sneak out at night, and my mother living with me who would wander off. Now that they are both gone I keep the keys in them on the inside. All of the locks are keyed the same.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Think about fire extinguisher placement. Almost all the work I do in the shop is on the side opposite the doors. I want a fire extinguisher near where I am working so I can grab it and try to knock down a path that will allow me to exit.

 

[Metal-Marc]

I keep the keys in them on the inside. All of the locks are keyed the same.

 

[racecougar]

If you are paranoid like me and don't want to use a double keyed deadbolt, I would strongly consider installing and showing your family how these work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D2K367Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have them installed on all my in swinging doors and lock up the place at night. They are easy to open. I install them about 1/4 of the way down the door and it realy sturdies up the door.

Those work fine if you're home, but not when you're away (at least not on every door).

 

[inphx]

In my city since 1986 they require sprinklers on new builds. After some room partitioning in my garagemahol i had a causal conversation with my sprinkler guy - and found adding "heads' / drops under a mezzanine was a fair $240 to show up for 2hrs plus parts to be correct in compliance. Unlikely an incident will occur to need it but its a precautionary expense.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Sure, I get the double-deadbolt thing, "you'll have to work harder to get my stuff!" However, I think an alarm is a better solution, because in the panic of a fire, you may not be able to locate the required key. Ever see the door sign, "this door to remain unlocked during occupancy?"

If you choose to lock yourself in, and something happens, where you're trapped and die, will your life insurance pay-off? Maybe a question to ask.

A tip for fire retardancy, if you don't have a piece of 5/8" fire-rated gypsum board on your attic scuttle hole, get one up there. You can use corner bead molding to give it a non-crumbling edge.

It's probably cheaper to buy another fire extinguisher than it is to have it serviced. Then you have a 'back-up.' It's a good idea to have them placed next to a means of egress, where you don't have to dig through a cabinet or past stacked-up things to reach it, and to use it. You also might contact your local fire dept to see if they have any citizens' awareness programs to teach you how to use whatever types of extinguishers you need for your hazards. A 5 lb A-B-C (a 10 lb is better) should suffice for many people. Dry chemical extinguishers, aim at the base of the flames, not the flames leaping into the air. In a kitchen, turning off the fuel supply, if possible, is going to help, as is putting a lid on a flaming pot, rather than trying to throw water onto boiling, burning oil, which will probably explode and cause you a world of hurt. Trying to remove the flaming pot from the stove is another mistake.

Working fire investigations, it was not uncommon to see one 'kitchen fire' happen in a neighborhood, and after that homeowner gets an insurance re-model. other 'kitchen fires' occur in the vicinity.

I just went to a reunion of Florida paid firefighters yesterday, and just listening to the stories, you thank god you made it through to retirement.

Doesn’t insurance pay if you drive drunk and get killed in a car accident?

Doesn’t insurance pay if you’re out on the frozen lake ice fishing in fall through and die?

Doesn’t insurance pay if you’re speeding and get killed in a car accident and die?

I would assume they pay if you still had a deadbolt in your house and couldn’t get out, there would be no reason not to.

In my city since 1986 they require sprinklers on new builds. After some room partitioning in my garagemahol i had a causal conversation with my sprinkler guy - and found adding "heads' / drops under a mezzanine was a fair $240 to show up for 2hrs plus parts to be correct in compliance. Unlikely an incident will occur to need it but its a precautionary expense.

How is it unlikely an incident will occur? As a retired volunteer fire fighter, and a retired fire sprinkler installer, fire can start anywhere.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

As a former Building Inspector, be aware that double keyed deadbolts are not allowed as per the IRC building code. It is illegal to have a building where someone can be locked in and unable to exit in case of fire or other emergency.
And for you guys that "keep a key close by", you may not be around in an emergency where a child, elderly person, or a guest might need the key in an emergency and not be able to find it.
This being said, my Father insisted on installing one on his downstairs basement door. The key is hanging on the wall beside the door. About 6 feet up, way above his grandchildren's ability to reach it. Ya can't win when trying to argue with your old Dad......

 

[Garcky]

If you live, as I do, in a split level home, give some thought to how you get out if there is a fire. Our bedrooms are on the upper level. Utility room is in the lower level. Front and only entry door is up or down a half-flight of stair. Lower level isn't a problem. Egress windows and the garage door are their. Upper level, though, could be a problem if a lower level fire made it impossible to get to the entry door.

We also have a balcony deck with access from the upper level. So, here's what I did:

We bought two escape ladders. One, a 15' Kidde ladder is designed to be used from a second-level window. It's in the bedroom, and the window is easy to gain access to for the ladder. The other escape ladder is one suited for the balcony deck. It's a 13' ladder, since the grade is higher on that wall of the house. It uses carabiners, so you fasten it to the rail on the deck perimeter fencing and toss it over the railing.

Of course, we also have extinguishers, but a plan for getting out of the place is even more crucial. We're ready, if necessary.

 

[mcbane]

A while back we had a really good discussion about tips and best practices for avoiding fires in the garage/shop. Well, today I was the first bystander on scene to a fire at an enclosed home garage in a neighborhood near my workplace.

The homeowner was out safely when I got there but was both in shock and busy trying to talk to emergency dispatch. Unfortunately, the garage was fully engulfed already, smoke was coming out of the windows of the home, and his dog did not make it out. I don't know what happened in the initial couple of minutes except that the fire was started in some way by a space heater in the garage, and that the homeowner left the house through the main garage door leaving all the other exits closed and locked.

So with that said, I thought it would be good to talk about being prepared to react to a major fire if and when it does actually happen. I know we all have it drilled into us as children, but when's the last time you actually checked your alarms and fire extinguishers? Do you have a plan to evacuate the house, including reluctant pets?

If you have never actually used a fire extinguisher to put out a fire, that is good experience to have. My local FD had training for homeowners that involved guidance re: where to aim the spray and an opportunity to actually discharge a fire extinguisher.

 

[reader2580]

I went through fire extinguisher training once or twice for a summer job I had for seven years. Everyone present was given the opportunity to use a fire extinguisher on a burning pan of diesel. The training was provided by the local gas and electric utility and I think it was free to my employer. The training also included a second part about safety around power lines.