Fire...

[patrick66]

I feel the man's pain. My shop got totally destroyed in a May 2003 F-4 tornado (now would be an EF-5). It was concrete block and steel with a metal roof. Blew two walls out and one in; the house was the fourth! Two cars inside were crushed - a 1988 BMW 325i ragtop and a 1950 Hudson coupe. A Metropolitan coupe was nearly untouched! The metal roof was scattered along a two-mile path. One of my Hudson Hornets flew 400 feet through the air and landed on it's wheels in the pasture, nearly undamaged. My restored '70 F250 was not as lucky, as it was picked up and slammed to the ground three separate times. You could see the divots in the ground where it impacted. Sucked the stereo out of the dash! **** was scattered for a LONG way!

Point is - insurance helped a LOT! I replaced the things that I needed to replace, built a new shop and separate house, got new toys, etc. Took a long time to overcome the emotional part of it all. The initial destruction and cleanup was not overly traumatic, because in the end, stuff is replaceable. People are not.

 

[wintermute]

…I know Griot's carries two different sized models. Pricey, but well worth the insurance. They are designed to be ceiling mounted so they can be hung above the bays of your garage or shop. Hopefully, this homeowner had insurance on it and finds the help he needs.

Thanks for that! I just took a look and I think I'll be getting one of these.
Wall Mount and Ceiling Mount options.

 

[Ign]

Whenever I've been doing hot work in the shop, I leave the lights on and the door unlocked when I shut down for the night.

Not me. I leave the lights off. Then I periodically check from the house for any signs of flickering or light in the shop windows. Certainly not fool-proof as I know rag fires can smolder for hours or days before going full-blown, but I can easily flip the lights on when I walk in the door should I choose to do fire checks in the shop.

 

[Marshall2u]

I had a serious relationship with my father in law before I had one with my wife. His shop burned down twice because of dirty rags and a torch. Smart? No. Is the situation common in many shops? Yes. Being lazy is what causes 99% of accidents. It happens everyday, in every shop. Don't be one of the 1%....stay alert ALL DAY.

 

[Tman]

I talked to Jeff a couple nights ago, he is devastated as you would imagine. If anything good can come from this it reminded me to call my insurance pal and add a rider to my policy since I have my wood furnace operational for the first time. I literally spaced it off until seeing these new pictures. Only an extra $40 a year to make sure I am covered.

 

[supersport]

I'm an insurance agent and you wouldn't believe how hard it is to convince people to increase their limits sometimes. Even with great coverage, it's a nightmare at best.

I hope your buddy had good coverage. What a shame.

 

[slidehammer]

cant imagine how bad that would be.... if that fire started because of a shorted wire, why didnt it trip a breaker instead of arching long enough to light a fire?????

For starters, the breaker may have been made by Zinsco or Federal Pacific!

Or, depending on the nature of the "short," the current draw may have been below the breaker's rating.

A high-resistance short that draws, say, 5 amps is good for 600 watts - plenty of power to start a fire - and won't come close to tripping a 15-amp breaker.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Something to consider is doing some "creative wiring", Such as wiring motion sensors normally used for lighting to operate relays to cut everything off when there is no movement inside the shop. This is legal and makes things safer. For right now I've wired my lighting this way to save on the light bill in zones. I plan to add more sensors to other devices. I'm using commercial ones rated for 800W and load them no more than 80%. Aluminum wiring is a source of fires. You try not to to use it. If you do use Alu wire with copper wire, you MUST use a special wire nut that seals the connection and use special devices, switches and recepticals , that are made for use with Alu/Copper wiring. I once went to help a freinds relative out that had a "bad receptical in her house." When I saw it was Alu wiring I told him there was "no way in hell I'd work on it." I told him she needed a licesenced Electritian with some good insurance to do any work on it. It was "bad" because it had Alu wire on a device designed for copper and worked loose. I told him she needed to check every device and connection in the house, especially the stove. 6 months later the house burned, root cause was traced to the stove connection.

 

[jon.human]

Heart breaking! I'm glad no one was hurt, I'm going out and getting smoke alarms today!

 

[Cars&Classic]

I moved into a New house 3 months ago, this is my first hous with an attached shop and it sure is a different feeling! i am constantly checking things, and trying to figure out a way to make it safer, I installed these fire extingusher boxes they were only 20.00 at menards. I figured I would alway know right where to reach if I ever need one. my extinguishers always use to get moved around the garage if they were in the way. this solves that problem and looks nice too!

 

[Firefighter315]

Thanks for that! I just took a look and I think I'll be getting one of these.
Wall Mount and Ceiling Mount options.

No problem! I've always gotten good stuff from Griots. The only potential problem I can forsee with them is that dry chemical extinguishers need to be shaken around a bit every now and then. The powder can settle over time and when used, the potential for "less then ideal" performance is there. This holds true for any dry chem extinguisher, not just the ceiling/wall mount. I am sure to invert my handheld extinguishers every now and then, thump on the sides to loosen the powder up, and then shake around a bit. You will feel the powder begin to move after you give them a light thump on the side while holding it upside down. The mounts shown with these lead me to believe such "maintenance" might be a pain in the neck. Still a good investment though!

 

[NASTYZEN]

That is sad...I couldn't even look at all the pictures...
I feel for your friend.

I've been welding with a mig in my dry walled garage for 15 years and often wake up at night, with a start, take a quick look out the window to be sure....

One thing that bothers me is my wiring. I have amassed much conduit tubing that I'll be hopefully putting in, this year. Maybe sooner with your friends disaster in mind. I will also change my 200amp residential box for an industrial one.

 

[ptschram]

Not me. I leave the lights off.

Leaving the lights on forces to go back out regardless of the weather! ;-)

 

[oldthudman]

Ah man that hurts.....................................................

 

[6768rogues]

That *****.

 

[T0NYN0T]

Take it from our military, put all flammables in a steel cabinet. (propane torch bottles, oil based paint, extra oil bottles, gasoline and diesel) if you can, put them outside away from any building.

 

[slowduc]

I lost my shop in 2001 to fire. I am still rebuilding and I`m not sure if I`ll ever get back to what it was like before the fire. But in some ways I think it will end up a better shop. I know what my needs are now and I work better with the more room I have now. The sad part is most of the tools and a very nice Triumph TT 100 bike that was passed on to me by my Dad when he passed. The only thing I can say for sure is life will go on. All the best, Ed

 

[TooTall]

When I built my new detached garage my city required I put in fire sprinklers. I was real unhappy at first but the more I thought about it the more I liked the idea. Looking at those photos just reinforces that.

Kurt O.

 

[FlyBy]

I hate seeing images like this. My grandfather owned/operated a forensic electrical engineering and loss analysis company for over 30 years, I learned a lot from it. Hauling burned sections of houses or appliances out of wrecked houses is more then enough to keep me thinking about electrical safety. And because of his business, I can never leave a toaster or coffee pot plugged in. I even unplug them at my friends' houses.

 

[Mr Mushman]

I am so sorry to see this ... it is a real shame ... what a loss and as a lot of the members said, it's a good thing nobody got hurt but after such a fire there is no way one can recoup all that it's lost and that's the tough part ... I know all these things we have in our shops are "just things" but as dudes we do get attached to "these things" we are kind of "freaky" about our "things" after all this is THE GARAGE JOURNAL ...

Good luck and all my best for the recovery and a new start ! ! ...

 

[tokyo]

Just a quick update.

As I read through the posts I thought to add some information.

None of the inside items were covered by insurance. The building itself is/was. There were approximately 10 vintage v8's and transmissions, years of NOS parts collecting (think early lasalle, cadillac, hemi and flathead parts) , vintage signage, paints, adapters, machinery/tooling, 4 hot rod projects, model A and 32 stuff, custom car pieces and loads upon loads (blasters, rotisierre's, lifts, 3 air compressors, three tool boxes, baldor buffers, 5 iwata paint guns, and on and on....

The HAMB has set up a great set of auctions and a tool drive if you are interested in helping out.

It couldn't have happened to a better guy...take alook

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Tokyo

 

[jimp]

Just a quick update.

As I read through the posts I thought to add some information.

None of the inside items were covered by insurance. The building itself is/was. There were approximately 10 vintage v8's and transmissions, years of NOS parts collecting (think early lasalle, cadillac, hemi and flathead parts) , vintage signage, paints, adapters, machinery/tooling, 4 hot rod projects, model A and 32 stuff, custom car pieces and loads upon loads (blasters, rotisierre's, lifts, 3 air compressors, three tool boxes, baldor buffers, 5 iwata paint guns, and on and on....

The HAMB has set up a great set of auctions and a tool drive if you are interested in helping out.

It couldn't have happened to a better guy...take alook

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Tokyo

I know this has been checked, but I need to make sure.

I had a very similar fire. Many projects under way. The insurance would not cover anything that I had taken off a uninsured project car. However, anything I purchased for a project and all my tools and equipment was covered under my home owners. House and shop were 60 miles apart at that time

One can hope.

 

[fireguy]

stand alone dry chemical extinguishers that are heat activated just like a sprinkler head. I know Griot's carries two different sized models. Pricey, but well worth the insurance. They are designed to be ceiling mounted so they can be hung above the bays of your garage or shop. Hopefully, this homeowner had insurance on it and finds the help he needs.

Response-Those Fireboys are rated to protect a cubic foot size. To protect my oversize single car shop would take 6 of the largest HFC 227 clean agent tanks. My cost, $24,000.00. no freight, no mark-up. The griot unit is a 6# ABC dry chemical and they make no mention of how many tanks to protect a shop. W/O looking at my industrial system install manual, a rough estimate for total flood in my garaage would be would be 2 of the 45# ABC tanks, and a total cost to install, about $8,000.00

So if you had a remote shop, say the size of a 4 car garage (20'x40') is it possible to install a gravity feed sprinkler system that would be effective ?
How many gallons would you need ?
How much "head" (vertical distance from the bottom of the tank to the sprinkler head) ?
Propylene glycol to prevent freezing ?

Response-For an effective sprinkler system you need to contact a licensed Fire Protection Engineer or NICET Level III (?) to design a sprinkler system.

My father-in-law suggested that I put a little wood burning stove in my pole barn. I explained to him that I had to many things that used gasoline and no way was I going to have an open flame just waiting for the right time to find a better fuel source than wood.
He just rolled his eyes as if to say "You've heard too many fire stories".
He's right...and they are all the same...stuff burns up!

Install your stove to code or the stove mfg requirements. My wood stove can get real hot! But, I exceeded the combustable clearnaces, put the stove 24 "off the floor, and used Metalbestos pipe. The clearances to combustables in the attic exceed the minimum.

No problem! I've always gotten good stuff from Griots. The only potential problem I can forsee with them is that dry chemical extinguishers need to be shaken around a bit every now and then. The powder can settle over time and when used, the potential for "less then ideal" performance is there. This holds true for any dry chem extinguisher, not just the ceiling/wall mount. I am sure to invert my handheld extinguishers every now and then, thump on the sides to loosen the powder up, and then shake around a bit. You will feel the powder begin to move after you give them a light thump on the side while holding it upside down. The mounts shown with these lead me to believe such "maintenance" might be a pain in the neck. Still a good investment though!

Shaking or "thumping" is not reccommnended by the mfg, and has not been for several years. Those cheap fx most people purchase have plastic siphon tubes and those can break by "thumping". Then the fx will not expell all the dry chemical.

http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/list_of_codes_and_standards.asp?cookie_test=1

A read only, cannot print of all the NFPA fire standards. NPFA 10 for FX. NFPA 13 install sprinkler sytems, NFPA 17 for dry chem systems.