First DIY black pipe job

[jmarkwolf]

Quotes I'm getting to run about 35ft of black pipe gas line between a new gas meter and a new hanging heater in my new detached garage are just too damn high.

Quotes so far range from $850 - $1400.

I've priced the materials at less than $100. Only 4 corners required. Space is wide open for access. Space is nice and toasty to work in with a torpedo heater.

I'm estimating it would take an experienced guy 3 hours max. This means that after buying the materials, which he should be able to obtain cheaper than I can, the plumber submitting the lowest quote will be making $250 per hour.

I don't think my physician makes that much.

In any case, I'm seriously considering doing this myself. Don't worry I'm handy, done copper pipe, rebuilt engines, built my own aircraft, was a mechanic before college, etc, etc. I've just never done black pipe before, and have a question.

I've been visualizing how the pipe segments would screw together. It seems to me that screwing the last pipe segment into the last fitting will unscrew it from the previous fitting. Is this what unions are for, besides allowing easy removal?

 

[jethrodawg]

DIY.

If you cut the pipe to length, Home Depot (assuming you have one nearby) will even cut the threads for you for FREE. Get everything cut, take to store and bang, done.

 

[Todd.Brock]

The union is for just what you described. I had this in my house furnace. The gas block required a 1/2" line directly screwed into it. The union was to connect it to the rest of the fit up. This may change if you use flexible line. I imagine you would just come off the drip leg, and then use a flexible connection to the appliance. In that situation, you would just build one piece at a time. Not sure a union would be needed.


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[raddksn]

Yes that's exactly what unions are for!

 

[rlitman]

DIY.

If you cut the pipe to length, Home Depot (assuming you have one nearby) will even cut the threads for you for FREE. Get everything cut, take to store and bang, done.

What?!? Not at any HD by me.
They have two prices for lengths of pipe. One price for the 10' stick.
Another price sold by the foot, that they thread for you (for free), but ten 1' pieces will run you the same price as two 5' pieces, and either would be more than double the price of a single 10' stick.

Still, it's not too expensive to DIY and pay for threaded pipe by the foot.

Yep, a union does just what you think. If you have a flex section at the end a union may not be necessary because the flex screws onto a gas flare, and that swivels just like a union (at both ends too).

BTW, go to a plumbing supply house and get Rectorseal 5. Do NOT use teflon tape, and the pipe dope sold at box stores is far inferior to this stuff.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

If I go to one of my stores later I will post a pic of my dryer bank. 10 pockets of dryers with black pipe coming down from the ceiling with the yellow flex coming into the machines. It looks cool. Get the black pipe to within a foot of where the connection needs to be made. From the black pipe come into the machine with yellow flex hose. Here's my ventless gas fireplace I use in my basement. The dryer bank would have looked better. I left the fireplace line a little long so I could move it. Use blue tape on your connections for gas.

 

[lametec]

BTW, go to a plumbing supply house and get Rectorseal 5. Do NOT use teflon tape, and the pipe dope sold at box stores is far inferior to this stuff.

Home Depot (and others, I would think) carries Rectorseal #5 as well. Same aisle as the black pipe and other gas fittings.

 

[theoldwizard1]

... Use blue tape on your connections for gas.

I have never done any black pipe, but it is not rocket science. Proper supports and joint sealant are essential.

I can't say I have ever seen blue sealing tape, but I know there is a special paste for gas.

Do't forget to check all joints with soapy water.

 

[djjsr]

Are permits and inspections required for this type of work where you live? I suggest you have your worked checked out by someone qualified. You don't know what you don't know.

Hpozzouli - I think you should have that pipe supported. jmo.

 

[rlitman]

Use blue tape on your connections for gas.

Teflon tape comes in several colors other than white.
Pink is what I prefer for water (technically red, but it looks pink). Blue is another thicker variation.
YELLOW is for gas, but is not accepted by most gas networks.
There's also green, but I'm getting off track.

Teflon tape can clog gas valves, and should not be used with gas. Period.

Home Depot (and others, I would think) carries Rectorseal #5 as well. Same aisle as the black pipe and other gas fittings.

I've never seen it at HD. Maybe it is a regional thing?
The HD website doesn't show it (when I search for "pipe dope" or "rectorseal"). They sell Oatey dope (several types) and Block (DO NOT USE THIS or any other "setting" dope).

I see Rectorseal 5 on the Lowes website. Perhaps you were thinking of them?

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Teflon tape comes in several colors other than white.
Pink is what I prefer for water (technically red, but it looks pink). Blue is another thicker variation.
YELLOW is for gas, but is not accepted by most gas networks.
There's also green, but I'm getting off track.

Teflon tape can clog gas valves, and should not be used with gas. Period.



I've never seen it at HD. Maybe it is a regional thing?
The HD website doesn't show it (when I search for "pipe dope" or "rectorseal"). They sell Oatey dope (several types) and Block (DO NOT USE THIS or any other "setting" dope).

I see Rectorseal 5 on the Lowes website. Perhaps you were thinking of them?

Blue is the standard for my area. I wouldn't have passed my inspection without blue. Just like Teflon tape but blue. Obviously made differently for gas.

The pipe doesn't need support. The pipe looks longer than it is. I think it's the way I took the pic.

 

[lametec]

I see Rectorseal 5 on the Lowes website. Perhaps you were thinking of them?

Nope. No local Lowe's, so I do all my shopping at HD.

Rectorseal @ HD.

 

[Highbeam]

I buy my rectorseal 5 at hd too. They sell several size containers.

 

[anthony666]

rectorseal 5

sounds like a brand of dysentery medicine

 

[Jackfre]

To H*** with the pipe. What kind of plane did you build?

 

[my58]

Do it yourself for sure!

Your layout is a perfect first time black pipe project. It goes together really fast once you get a rhythm going.

For the record, HD in Socal sells rectorseal 5 also.

 

[jmarkwolf]

To H*** with the pipe. What kind of plane did you build?

Plane you ask? Planes are for ninnies.

I built a helicopter.

Been flying it since 2000.

www.ucosm.com/helicopter

 

[jmarkwolf]

Are permits and inspections required for this type of work where you live? I suggest you have your worked checked out by someone qualified. You don't know what you don't know.

Hpozzouli - I think you should have that pipe supported. jmo.

I'm the OP, and yes, permits are required, I pulled one and will be having it officially inspected.

Most of the length of pipe will be perpedicular and attached to the top surface of the 2x8 rafters, so it will be well supported.

I originally intended to act as the general contractor on this task, but quotes have been so damn high, I think I'm going to proceed as a DIY.

Giving it a lot of thought and taking everyones input gratefully.

 

[megalo]

Plane you ask? Planes are for ninnies.

I built a helicopter.

Been flying it since 2000.

www.ucosm.com/helicopter

You are a brave man.

Edit: Also, that's awesome. I love the computer/sensor setup.

 

[tomroblee]

These days not all pipe and fitting are created equal---especially with cheap imports. Sometimes the best source of good pipe and fitting may be from your local gas utility. There seem to be a fair number of utility employees who do some work on the side for quite reasonable prices.

 

[6t7gto]

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=how to run black pipe&s_it=keyword_rollover&ie=UTF-8&VR=3430

 

[jethrodawg]

What?!? Not at any HD by me.
They have two prices for lengths of pipe. One price for the 10' stick.
Another price sold by the foot, that they thread for you (for free), but ten 1' pieces will run you the same price as two 5' pieces, and either would be more than double the price of a single 10' stick.

My local HD has thread cutting machine right in the aisle next to the pipe. No charge.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

its amazing what they get for black gas pipe, I did the gas pipe for my pool heater and I think they gave me back something like $1100, it was about $50-100 in material.
there was noway i was going to let them do it especially since i have a power threader.

don't use that tape and when you measure add a 1/2" (for 1/2" pipe) allowance to go into the fittings

 

[brewchief]

I'm estimating it would take an experienced guy 3 hours max. This means that after buying the materials, which he should be able to obtain cheaper than I can, the plumber submitting the lowest quote will be making $250 per hour.

3 hours is about right to do the job, assuming we have everything on the truck and don't have to chase parts.

We might get a slightly better price from some suppliers but not by much on a job like that, maybe 5-10 bucks cheaper total, several suppliers sell to everybody at the same price.

When you figure the time spent looking at jobs, writing bids for jobs, pricing materials, ordering and picking up said materials, pulling permits, making a second trip because the inspector wanted a pressure test on it, etc the 250$ an hour shrinks down dramatically.

You've got a pretty easy DIY job, pipe from the meter to within a few feet of the heater then use a short flex connector to make the final connection.
You need to use a ****** or two to come out of the heater, the flex conn. shouldn't pass through the cabinet of the heater. Ask the inspector if they want a pressure test on it(we often don't need one but a homeowner may not get any slack here), if so you will need to isolate both ends and add a gauge and air valve.

Northwest pipe in between Brighton and Howell will have everything you could need and can cut and thread pipe, Wards doit center in Hamburg can also cut and thread pipe if I'm not mistaken.

If you can build and fly a helicopter then running some gas pipe shouldn't be a problem.

 

[jmarkwolf]

Thanks for the input everybody.

I expect this task will be relatively straight forward after "tapping the vast knowledge base" on this forum, and making inquiries as to what the inspector wants to see.

Brewchief - The local resources you cite do indeed cut and thread pipe on the premises. I'm a frequent customer.

Regarding the flex connection, I'm hearing two things: It is acceptable per code as in the clothes dryer application, but is not acceptable per code for hard mounted appliances such as a hanging furnace.

My furnace has a "hard stub" coming out the back and I like the idea of adding a flex connection absorbing vibration, but I guess the inspector will have the final say on this question. It's hard to get those guys on the phone to answer questions.

 

[jmarkwolf]

You are a brave man.

Edit: Also, that's awesome. I love the computer/sensor setup.

I've got a couple buddies in St Louis area that fly the same heli. One who has since gone to the "dark side" (flying airplanes) has a video on Youtube flying past the arch in his heli.

 

[brewchief]

Regarding the flex connection, I'm hearing two things: It is acceptable per code as in the clothes dryer application, but is not acceptable per code for hard mounted appliances such as a hanging furnace.

My furnace has a "hard stub" coming out the back and I like the idea of adding a flex connection absorbing vibration, but I guess the inspector will have the final say on this question. It's hard to get those guys on the phone to answer questions.

I've never had a problem using a short flex connector on a unit heater, I try to keep it as short as I can, normally a 2'. I don't have a codebook at home or I would cite the code section that allows it.

Your best chance to talk to the inspector is first thing in the morning, call at 8 am or shortly after, once they head out to do their inspections they may not be back until 5pm or later

 

[megalo]

I've got a couple buddies in St Louis area that fly the same heli. One who has since gone to the "dark side" (flying airplanes) has a video on Youtube flying past the arch in his heli.

Nice. What airport are they based out of? I'm on the dark side - I fly things with only one spinny part. But I've been up for a few hours with my uncle in R22/44s.

 

[anthony666]

When you figure the time spent looking at jobs, writing bids for jobs, pricing materials, ordering and picking up said materials, pulling permits, making a second trip because the inspector wanted a pressure test on it, etc the 250$ an hour shrinks down dramatically.

amen .. people only see you at their home and figure that's all they're paying for .. suppliers make me mental, they arbitrarily substitute stuff all the time .. the last job i posted for example, the entire thing is plumbed in 3/4" but they sent a 1" sweat air eliminator and 1" NPT heat exchanger .. gee, thanks for putting an extra day on my job fellas !! maddening

 

[Mike007]

amen .. people only see you at their home and figure that's all they're paying for .. suppliers make me mental, they arbitrarily substitute stuff all the time .. the last job i posted for example, the entire thing is plumbed in 3/4" but they sent a 1" sweat air eliminator and 1" NPT heat exchanger .. gee, thanks for putting an extra day on my job fellas !! maddening

Don't get me started. I was installing some equipment in a pharmaceutical plant. The machines needed an
1-1/4" pvc street 90* for the final connection. The supply house sent me 1-1/2" 90*'s instead because that was what they had in stock and would have to order what I asked for.

I guess I was supposed to fill the gap with gum or something.

 

[anthony666]

I guess I was supposed to fill the gap with gum or something.

HAHAHAHAHA .. if i had a dollar for every time i've said those exact same words

 

[mygarageone]

We had a large black piping job for a school , about 5000 ft of pipe , every 2" & 1/12" coupling leaked . The supplier paid for all new couplings and unions because we had to cut into some 20 ft sec but they wouldn't ' t pay for all our labor . Needless to say , it was the last job they supplied mat 's for.

 

[mechan]

I've never had a problem using a short flex connector on a unit heater, I try to keep it as short as I can, normally a 2'. I don't have a codebook at home or I would cite the code section that allows it.

Your best chance to talk to the inspector is first thing in the morning, call at 8 am or shortly after, once they head out to do their inspections they may not be back until 5pm or later

Why not just pull a copy of the code and install per code?

 

[jmarkwolf]

Why not just pull a copy of the code and install per code?

The only "code" detailed on the local Building Department web site has to do with hot tub electrical details.

I don't know where a homeowner can "pull a copy of the code". The best source of info I know, other than this forum, is the inspectors.

Any suggestions?

 

[mechan]

the only "code" detailed on the local building department web site has to do with hot tub electrical details.

I don't know where a homeowner can "pull a copy of the code". The best source of info i know, other than this forum, is the inspectors.

Any suggestions?

nfpa 54 / ansi z223.1

http://www.iccsafe.org/gr/Pages/MI.aspx