First garage ownership planning

[drummingpariah]

I'm finally adulting well enough that I can really look at garages, and the homes that come with them. One of my biggest considerations is being outside of all the 'cities' (that's what we call towns that have more than a few traffic lights on one stretch of road), but close enough to work that commuting isn't a hassle. That means some sacrifices may need to be made, and I need to consider how I'm going to build out my shop. I'd really like some advice from you folks, as you have a lot of experience that could be quite helpful to me.

Before we go into the options I'm seeing regularly, let's establish some core needs.

Parking
It's nice to be able to put my motorcycles inside for the winter. My girlfriend would probably like to park her car inside too, but car parking isn't a priority for us.

Storage
I have 3 cars that are raced regularly. I think that's an ideal number, as it allows me to have the 'stable' car, 'testing' car, and 'unstable/development' car. That means keeping spares for each car, which is roughly a 'standard' garage bay.

Fabrication
I like to make stuff. I try not to accumulate tools that I don't absolutely need, but a drill press and tubing bender would be worthwhile additions. Having one full bay dedicated to measuring and making things would be a dream come true.

Assembly/disassembly
I'm going to want to pull a vehicle in every once in awhile, tear it down, and install/remove/maintain things directly on it. My general rule of thumb is that I should be able to open the doors and still walk all the way around the vehicle without having to dodge anything else.

Loft/Studio
I've been churning through a lot of video footage lately, and plan to do even more. I also work from home a fair amount, which means having a computer workstation with good internet. A clean upstairs loft would be perfect for this, as I could set up a video/audio studio there, and a separate editing workstation.

In summary, my ideal is 3 standard bays, an oversized assembly bay, and a studio above it all. I'd much prefer a detached garage, since it affects taxes (which are fairly high in NH to make up for our lack of sales/income tax) and insurance.

Pole Barn Option
Here in New England, pole barns are pretty common, especially on older houses (over 100 years old). This option requires finding a home/barn that is:

• Within my search zone
• Within my budget
• Equipped with modern wiring (or I can pay to have it rewired)
• Insulated (or I could insulate it myself)

Build It Option
I love the idea of concrete structures. In theory, they're thermally efficient, extremely low-maintenance, and long-lasting. They seem straightforward enough to build, but I really don't have the experience to know what's involved. I have absolutely no frame of reference for what building a structure like this would cost, either. I'll be honest and admit that I don't love this option. I really want to work in my garage, and not necessarily on my garage. Build-out invariably takes time, no matter how simple this is.

I'm laying out my ideal shop here, not necessarily what I can realistically deliver on. Even expanding to two, or even three bays would streamline all of my workflows considerably. Jack has proven what can be done with a 2-bay, but I'd much rather cheat and just have more available space, if I can.

So, with that big old information dump, let me show what I'm currently working with. I have a slightly undersized single-bay do-it-all space:

Generally, it fits a human, a car, or a complete engine. I'm trying to keep all three in there right now.

I also have a small separate 'engine room' that I'm pretty much using as disorganized storage right now. Here's my first effort to organize the engine spares shelf.

My CRX barely fits:

... and my rx7 is even tighter:

Help
I'm looking for advice here. Things to watch out for with a pole barn. Concrete construction recommendations. Wiring or lighting thoughts. Cost estimates (I know this one's tough/regional). I don't even know what questions to ask yet, but I'd much rather ask, "What should I know?" and feel dumb than to buy something that I come to regret because I missed some obvious considerations.

Thanks!

 

[Cyberbear]

After seeing what type of usage you do, I see a potential need to keep "clean" work separated from "dirty" work. It does no good to contaminate a work area thereby causing grief afterwards. Most of what I do is clean work and I have a separate bay for my woodworking projects and another for automotive and metal fabrication. Over time I've been fortunate to have both types of work areas.

 

[matt_i]

Re- concrete construction. Cheap would be a concrete block shop. More expensive would be a formed and poured shop. There are styroforms that go up probably to about 10ft tall where the foam is left in place. Have to be careful about constructing it and filling it due to hydrostatic pressure. Nice to have the insulation ultimately. I think it will probably be 1.5x to 2x as expensive as a wood-framed shop.

All concrete ***** in my opinion for placing man doors, garage doors, windows, running any type of wiring or piping. Every fastener can compromise an edge or leave a pock mark if its the wrong location. Have to deal with covering the Styrofoam on the inside if doing one of those pours as I think its flammable if ignited.

Concrete always cracks too. Fine if its concealed by foam or underground, or in the bottom of a saw kerf, but could be alittle ugly in a finished wall.

I think I'd go with around $30/sf for low-end construction. Can easily hit $50/sf or more for better/premium. Given your "work in, not on" that would meaning writing a contract to be mostly turnkey by a builder. I would stick with standard stuff (iow not all concrete unless concrete block) that a lot of people will bid on/will go up quickly, rather than something exotic which will drive the price even higher as the builder has to plan/budget/charge you for the extra time invested.

Also: re-read about your "upstairs studio". I would highly recommend not to get attic/storage trusses and try to use the attic space. Its miserable up there all 4 seasons for any type of human occupation. Will be extra hot everytime the sun shines and extra cold every time it gets winter. There exists insulation, but it cannot combat the forces against it well enough for comfort. Thus, I'd recommend building either a mezz or an actual second floor area that's not attic-based.

Edit: had one other thought. When you are young, you need to consider that where you live might not be permanent. Between age 25 and 40 I moved 5 times to different states. So, I'd keep the investment low, you build a killer-nice barn and then move, you probably won't get your money back in the 5 years. Thus you are sort of building it for someone else....and along those lines, think of trying to keep it functional where anyone would want it. Supremely tailoring it to your needs at the expense of flexibility can hurt resale.

 

[drummingpariah]

After seeing what type of usage you do, I see a potential need to keep "clean" work separated from "dirty" work. It does no good to contaminate a work area thereby causing grief afterwards. Most of what I do is clean work and I have a separate bay for my woodworking projects and another for automotive and metal fabrication. Over time I've been fortunate to have both types of work areas.

That's what we typically do at the local Makerspaces, and it makes perfect sense. I end up doing a bit of wiring (it's often easier to replace a harness in a car than to repair it), and that really benefits from having an isolated space from the machining area.

Re- concrete construction. Cheap would be a concrete block shop. More expensive would be a formed and poured shop. There are styroforms that go up probably to about 10ft tall where the foam is left in place. Have to be careful about constructing it and filling it due to hydrostatic pressure. Nice to have the insulation ultimately. I think it will probably be 1.5x to 2x as expensive as a wood-framed shop.

All concrete ***** in my opinion for placing man doors, garage doors, windows, running any type of wiring or piping. Every fastener can compromise an edge or leave a pock mark if its the wrong location. Have to deal with covering the Styrofoam on the inside if doing one of those pours as I think its flammable if ignited.

Concrete always cracks too. Fine if its concealed by foam or underground, or in the bottom of a saw kerf, but could be alittle ugly in a finished wall.

I think I'd go with around $30/sf for low-end construction. Can easily hit $50/sf or more for better/premium. Given your "work in, not on" that would meaning writing a contract to be mostly turnkey by a builder. I would stick with standard stuff (iow not all concrete unless concrete block) that a lot of people will bid on/will go up quickly, rather than something exotic which will drive the price even higher as the builder has to plan/budget/charge you for the extra time invested.

Also: re-read about your "upstairs studio". I would highly recommend not to get attic/storage trusses and try to use the attic space. Its miserable up there all 4 seasons for any type of human occupation. Will be extra hot everytime the sun shines and extra cold every time it gets winter. There exists insulation, but it cannot combat the forces against it well enough for comfort. Thus, I'd recommend building either a mezz or an actual second floor area that's not attic-based.

Edit: had one other thought. When you are young, you need to consider that where you live might not be permanent. Between age 25 and 40 I moved 5 times to different states. So, I'd keep the investment low, you build a killer-nice barn and then move, you probably won't get your money back in the 5 years. Thus you are sort of building it for someone else....and along those lines, think of trying to keep it functional where anyone would want it. Supremely tailoring it to your needs at the expense of flexibility can hurt resale.

There's a lot to reply to here. Potentially doubling my cost is enough reason to avoid concrete. I haven't had an attic space available to me before, so the feedback on climate control is pretty key. That's the last place I want to be uncomfortable, and it'd be pretty expensive to keep warm/cool here in New England (relatively hot/humid summers and typically bitterly cold winters).

As for moving around, I haven't considered this enough in the past because of that very reason. I'm pretty sure I'll be in the greater Manchester area for the foreseeable future. I'm 32 now, and am finally at a point in my life where I feel like I can afford to make a real investment in property. My benchmark was that I would never buy any house that cost more than two years' wages, and this is the first time that I've consistently been above that marker.

 

[dwysywd]

Get a 3 car garage with a pole barn or room for one. You will never regret having the space.

 

[drummingpariah]

Get a 3 car garage with a pole barn or room for one. You will never regret having the space.

Get both a pole barn and a 3-car?

 

[dwysywd]

LoL, 3 car garage and a pole barn? Says the guys with 3 race cars! Yeah get both

Ok, so I raced motorcycles for a while, and space, well you can never have too much. At my house I build a beautiful 2 car 24x24 insulated and heated garage. We were going to park in it and I could work on my bikes occasionally. Well, that sucked because when I was tearing a bike down or working on some other project... I had to park outside! Now, I live in MI and in the winter that *****! And you may be thinking, well, I park outside now and its no big deal, but let me tell you, once you start, you NEVER want to park outside again, in any season!

As for the barn, I built a 24x32 barn about a month ago... its already too small! LOL, all I have in it right now are my H1, my heaters and my insulation project which includes (16) 4x8 panels 1 and 5/8" thick, but dang they take up a lot of space.

So, if you can afford the toys, find a way to afford the storage. The 3 car garage, yeah I wished I had an extra bay to park in, and now my 16 year old wishes she could park inside too. And then add a barn down the road. I built my garage for about $12000 and my barn for $9000. Now I subcontracted all the work out myself and that saved me about 30-40% on costs.

Regards,
Jeff

Sent from my bag phone...

 

[roscoe2000]

At a minimum I would rough in for floor radiant heating. I would go hydronic and with the tubing in place you could piece together the rest of the system relative easy as your resources allow. One down fall is that you will need to map out any lift location or other equipment anchor location early.

 

[dwysywd]

At a minimum I would rough in for floor radiant heating. I would go hydronic and with the tubing in place you could piece together the rest of the system relative easy as your resources allow. One down fall is that you will need to map out any lift location or other equipment anchor location early.

That's a great idea. That is what I'm doing, buying all the tubing from radientec.com and installing it and then when I can afford to add to the system, I have the hardest part done.


Regards,
Jeff

Sent from my bag phone...