First Real Welder

[Hpozzuoli]

Hey guys. I have been MIA for a while. Things got busy with a new child, I opened another business, moved houses, and got generally busy. The time has come for a welder. I am sending out too much work to put this off. I suppose I am dragging my feet because I need to run the power, but it isn't hard to do, just time consuming.

What I do:

I am in construction. I repair fences, fab up solutions to problems, railings, gates, make sliding barn door tracks, and repair all the **** I break. 1/4 and 1/2 will be the most used material. I do work on a lot of equipment like plows and general under carriage items. Single phase 220 is all I can squeeze out of my panel. I like stick because it seems like it is easier to weld with. I have a cheapo HF dual voltage welder that ***** (probably me that *****). I never used it with a tank, but I figure scrap all that and let's start fresh.

Believe me I have read the threads. Would a stick be better in my position or should I get mig. I just want a good solid welder. Budget is open.

Thanks guys

 

[dr_clyde]

If you can get a 50 amp circuit, you can run a fair amount of welder. I'm going to inference wire welder would be better from your description of work, but if you get the right machine, you can have both.

My first choice for a real, industrial grade wire welder is the Millermatic 350P. They are basically and XMT and a feeder in one box. Huge range, multiple metals and modes, they are really a great machine. They can be had for a few grand used. If you don't want to spring for new.

I have a Lincoln Invertec V300 PRO with a LN-7 wire feeder. I think this would be a good fit for you. It can run on single phase and I have run some pretty heavy duty wire through it. Dual shield in spray transfer, .045" solid wire and all the way down to .023 for sheet metal. Plus the machine is an excellent stick welder, and will do DC TIG with scratch start. You can get HF and gas solenoid control boxes if you're so inclined. I bought mine off ebay for $700 about 5 years ago or so. They make newer versions that may be easier to find.

Bottom line, get at least a 250 amp class machine. Get one from Miller or Lincoln, and get one that is meant for an industrial setting. For welding what you say you will, you don't want a hobby grade welder.

 

[bigguns69]

Miller 212 or 252. I own both, the 212 has the set and forget it feature and it works remarkably well. Once you go mig, you'll never go back to stick. Last time I used my stick welder was 5 years ago when I needed to finish a job and I ran out of gas for my Mig on a Saturday.

 

[ilovevocs]

You have welder advice. IM going to comment on power.

It sounds like your main may be a distance from the welder, if it isn't disregard my post!

If your running power my recommendation with the work you are doing is to lug to the main panel and run service to another panel of equal amprage to that of the main. Place it in close proximity to your fabrication area.

Next thing you know you are going to want a plasma, a large(r) compressor, ect.

If your doing the work yourself I find the expense to be minimal and it makes future expansion much easier.

Consider ally for the run from panel to panel. Its typically cheaper than copper.

 

[MoonRise]

Hmmm, 1/4"? MIG all the way.

That should cover most of your fence and gate and railing stuff.

The 1/2" thick stuff though? That moves up the power requirements a wee bit higher.

Stick can do that for sure. So can wire, either solid or flux cored, with enough machine.

Hmmm, probably a minimum 212-class wire feed machine.

But 'better' would be an 'industrial' class 250-class wire-feed machine. You can pretty much run any type of wire through those machines, solid or cored. FCAW-S or FCAW-G.

example: Lincoln PowerMIG 256. The 208/230V version calls for a 60 amp breaker to feed it and #8 or #10 Type SO wire as the input cord.

The 350-class multi-process machines are just that, multi-process capable. And they usually start to get you such 'advanced' capabilities as pulsed GMAW.

But that 'level' of machine usually calls for 80 or 100 amp 240V power input (or more).

Lincoln PowerMIG350 calls for an 80 amp 230V circuit breaker.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im10105.pdf

Lincoln Invertec-V350-Pro calls for a 125 amp breaker on single phase 220/230V input.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im907.pdf

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im731.pdf

With the Invertec (or similar Miller version, XMT IIRC), you have to get a wire feeder unit to actually feed the wire.

Miller and ESAB make similar type/capable machines if you want blue or yellow instead.

Budget-wise, you are looking at $2k+ for a base 250-class MIG machine, and more like the $5k+ level for the 350-class, either MIG or multi-process machine. New.

 

[sberry]

Hobart IM230, 1500$

 

[Hpozzuoli]

All great stuff. Thank you for the great insight and most of all the technical aspects. I will review thoroughly and hopefully find a machine that fits the bill.

 

[dr_clyde]

You can run a lot on a 50amp breaker, but if you have room, for sure put 100A breaker.

 

[sberry]

These plug and cords are limited to 50A. I have a 300 synch, havnt turned it on in 10 yrs. I am a career welder, rarely even use a 250 anymore and a home hobby maintenance shop can easily get along with 50A service for welding.
In fact today unless I had a specific need would be using a Maxstar 150 for sticks, I use an AC/DC buzzer when I do want to use sticks but its really cause I already have it but the Max is beautiful for 120v work.
The larger machines are for production and real weld shops, the common user doesn't need them. Absolutely no reason for this poster not to get something runs from a common welder outlet.
AC/DC buzzer in pic. Unless one is an excavating contractor and needs larger electrodes, air arc the rest is pretty much moot.

 

[Kaizen]

With all that fence and such work wouldn't a gas powered bobcat type be better? I'd hate to have to haul everything back to a shop when you could just do on site


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[sberry]

Today would get a modest genset and a Maxstar type machine. Everlast makes one under 300$, I havnt used one as I have a max but the the deal would cost about 1/3 of Bobber. Maybe way less. Even if a guy bought a top machine like a Max.

 

[Thumper68]

I'll come at you from a bit of a different angle, If you are doing any work off site then check out the Lincoln 210MP, great machine for the 9 months I have been using it, runs both stick and mig (or flux core) all in a package you can toss in the truck with one hand and take with you.

Dual voltage as well so if you need to you can run on 120v.

 

[Markfothebeast]

I like reading old welder stories. My farmer neighbors use some very old AC stick welders and I really like the bead they put down. I've read about how the old arc welder is still a great machine. I like using my neighbors tiny little $70 Performax Menards stick welder. I've only really had experience with a flux core Lincoln 120v and very little stick welding so I can't say much. I also have a Miller Maxstar STL 150 which is 120/240 but it was given to me broken. After looking through internet posts over a few months, the Maxstar seems like it only lasts a few years. I'm going through the electronics in mine yet to see what overheated 2 ceramic resistors.

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[bulldogr6]

Sounds like you need a Esab Rebel 235ic

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[Sycan]

Problem with some of the old welders is they are power hungry and heavy. I bought an old Miller 330a/bp to learn how to TIG weld aluminum with, It will pop the 50 amp breaker no problem, not even turned up but about half way. I keep it because it should be an excellent stick welder too. I shouod sell it , I couldn't TIG weld to save my life and have no need for a stick machine over 200 amps.

My vote for OP would be one of the 210 inverter machines, I love my Miller 211, imagine the Hobart version and Lincolns would also be great. Plus I can power it off the 225 Bobcat in the field if needed.

 

[koditten]

Listen to Cary. That IM230 by Hobart is a steal. I wish I would have gone that route and saved money over the Millers I've got.

 

[pamike]

Aside from the actual machine, consider the process you want to use. I have an AC/DC stick machine that I picked up used CHEAP. Nice to have around. I then have a mig with DUAL shield wire. It uses gas, but also has flux in the center of the wire. Its great for maintenance or dirty outside welding. You don't have the porosity issues that you can with mig welding....

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Today would get a modest genset and a Maxstar type machine. Everlast makes one under 300$, I havnt used one as I have a max but the the deal would cost about 1/3 of Bobber. Maybe way less. Even if a guy bought a top machine like a Max.

I am up to my eye balls in generators, but this was my first thought. A nice diesel big blue eventually mounted in the back of a work truck would be the stuff dreams are made out of!

I like the Hobart you suggested. Since you maintain equip, what do you find you use the most?

 

[sberry]

I have all the processes but my most used machine is a little Lincoln SPT. They still make it, the box store version is very good. All the brand name 200 compacts are good today, it got very competitive and any poor models are long gone. Hobart is good and skips the bell whistle and latest feature approach now used to drive sales.
I would like to field test the Everlast inverters to see if they are as efficient as the blue one is. The Maxstar will run 1/8 6011 and 3/32 7018 continuous from 20A 120V which is as handy as a pocket on a t shirt. If you already have genset, 4000 watt or better this is a super cheap way to fly and as good an arc as a Bobcat. It will run 7018 1/8 no problem. Its what I would do for all but the real welding business.
I could make a living with one and a 200 compact most of the time. If you are working on 1/4 and heavier most of the time you need more poop, the IM230 falls in to this league, farmer stuff, repair, light fab and uses full size spools where material cost is a factor, it will lay down 2x the wire that a compact will with the same gas and cheaper cost due to big spool.
Now,,,, there is a difference between being a good welder and giving good advice, I know guys that figure that since the first machine they used was SA400 on a pipeline that's what everyone should have. The new compacts are a good fit for many/most on this forum, perfect for auto work but they are a bit light for heavier fab work. If its regular and time is money, if you are paying men, if someone is waiting on a weld then it makes a huge difference, the price difference between a 212 and a 252 will vanish fast and between it and a 211 in as little as a week or 2 under some conditions.
In maintenance this difference is smaller. If I was in heavy equip-0ment, repairing cutting edges, excavator buckets and there was hours of welding daily then large machines and feeders make a difference, in general repair not so much. I repaired a forklift a while back with Max on 120v, was mostly fab time and in 3 hr repair was about 6 inches of weld I had to run 3 extra small rods for extra pass, bigger rod would have saved a couple minutes and a time a week or month doesn't add much to the bottom line.
Saving several hours a week at 100$ an hour is a big difference. Saving a couple minutes and adding to the set up time would have been a back slide. The Max has really replaced my portables most of the time and now do work I used to drive a 20,000# truck to.

 

[sberry]

In my case welding time is not much of a factor, convenience everything. 90% is done with the little red feeder. I do have a 250 feeder but rarely use it, I did when I built half a dozen trailers several years ago and on another customer job came in a while back. I have ran the buzzer continuous 1/8 lo hy, handful at a time, way beyond its listed duty cycle and still works perfect. I have it in a "loom", has 2 stingers, leads for outdoor and go to welding booth, I use it some. The only time I use larger electrodes is portable once in a while and that has been a long time on customer excavator.
Even Ironwork and pipe fitting a good share of the work was done 1/8 electrodes. I still prefer stick for field work unless it would be a real production issue, so simple and practical and can change electrodes. I don't have plasma or wire on my service truck, use a red machine similar to a Bobcat. The 300 Synchrowave is really a cart for plasma and a Hobart 210 with spooly for aluminum.
Smaller lighter machines and battery powered tools has really made a lot of this obsolete. There is a big difference between maintenance and job shop/welding shop. I would be hard pressed today to buy anything that didn't run from standard welder outlet unless there was a real need I could pencil out. 350 and LN7 feeders have their place but generally not for this crowd. They are for specialists with continuous workflow. Same for SA200 and other engine generators, great if you need it but 1500# of DC welder, no AC power and large footprint looses its appeal for everyone but a pipeliner. I have a couple around in case I went back to contracting, have trailer mounted so it doesn't tie up a truck, havnt use them in 20 yrs and should be sold. Something on a skid one could toss on a trailer or in back of a pickup is so much more practical.

 

[sberry]

Something guy can carry or plug in to a genset or wall most of the time is even better.

 

[BD1]

If you are doing repairs on dirty contaminated steel, go for a AC /DC machine and some 5 P 6010 rod 1/8'' and 3/32 lo hi 7018 and you'll be set.
Once you get hooked you'll have multiple machines to play with like the rest of us. Machines are not like hats , one size fits all.

 

[sberry]

They each have their place. A well equiped shop would have a DC buzzer around especially if a guy was working on equipment.

 

[sberry]

The staple tool today in this kind of work and these kind of shops is a wire feed. There are other places can use and even require different equipment but I could pretty much get by with a 200 compact feeder. Made a weld yesterday, its what I used.
Its used so often nd so critical have a machine pretty much dedicated to a bench for ease and speed.

 

[Markfothebeast]

Something guy can carry or plug in to a genset or wall most of the time is even better.

I still haven't fixed my Maxstar STL 150. It's nice and portable but I'm not sure how reliable these area.

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[sberry]

There are a lot of them out there. We had a service guy on Miller forum had seen some in the earlier units, not sure about now but some developed some loose connections and I cant quote or know enough about it to make any of it a fact. Mine works perfect, I havnt used it a lot and only once on 240V to test it. They work really well on 120V and are so super handy that if I didn't already have a buzzer ****** would consider this especially considering the cost of wiring and leads.

 

[dr_clyde]

The maxstar 150 is king with mechanical contractors. Combination of cheap, reliable, portable, simple and well made makes them a winner for 120v TIG and stick.

They are easily crushed by heavy equipment, I'm told by my welding salesman.

 

[Markfothebeast]

There are a lot of them out there. We had a service guy on Miller forum had seen some in the earlier units, not sure about now but some developed some loose connections and I cant quote or know enough about it to make any of it a fact. Mine works perfect, I havnt used it a lot and only once on 240V to test it. They work really well on 120V and are so super handy that if I didn't already have a buzzer ****** would consider this especially considering the cost of wiring and leads.

Maybe I can ask the guys at Miller what usually failed on this 2009 model. Thinking diode or transformer took out the 2 resistors.

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[sberry]

I hear they using these on nuke shutdowns now. I was on one in about 82.We had resistors, big coils in them, the lower the amps the hotter they got and you could short them out and cook on the things, use the current control for temp. Big fat 4/0 lead going to them, not sure how much one cost, all to run 3/32 and some 1/8 lo hy. Now a Max cost less than that remote did and can feed it with a number 12 wire. I wish I would have had one when I was a kid.

 

[sberry]

Maybe I can ask the guys at Miller what usually failed on this 2009 model. Thinking diode or transformer took out the 2 resistors.

Miller has good help, they have a good forum. Its not as active as it was but its decent. That there may be a repair for, some of the boards have logic chips and they are about impossible to fix.

 

[trackwelder]

A miller 252 would work real nice for you. Don't rule out used machines as well. I'm a huge fan of the older miller mm200 welders. The 30a spool gun can be added later for aluminum work.

 

[koditten]

I agree entirely, except used 200 range machines are rare to show up for sale. If they do, they are usually within 80 percent of their new price. Might as well buy new.

With that said, these are lifetime machines. $2k is pretty cheap when you stretch it over 30 years. Yes, they will last that long easily.

 

[bulldogr6]

I still feel a Esab rebel 235 is perfect for him.

I myself want one to replace both my machines.

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