First time doing this, what might I be missing?

[humangoogle]

Location: NW Montana

I've been lurking for awhile and am now getting ready to put up my first shop and am interested to see if there's anything I might be missing before finalizing the design and making the final changes to the contract.

Size: 40x72, but may stretch to 40x80 or 40x84 if I decide to go with 10' or 12' bays.
Height: 16' in the shop area, 18' in the second floor area.
Use: Multiple uses. Office for me (WFH), general shop/hobby/storage space, woodshop, motorhome storage (skoolie), and a small ski storage room for easy load/unload with enough space to dry all of the gear. Before questions arise, there is an external door on the lower bath for flexibility, including possible use by guests if we decide to AirBnb our skoolie in the future. 24" overhangs all around.

The rear 1/3 will be a 2 story setup, and the upper portion finished as my time permits.

Planning on a post frame building, hydronic heating (2 inch foam under the slab), 1 2-post lift and 3 overhead doors (2 10x10 and 1 12x14). A trench drain in front of each of the 10x10 insulated doors. Not decided on insulation method yet for the exterior (suggestions welcome!) I'll put in a mini-split to heat/cool the upper floor when I finish it.

I've included rough plans for both floors. Depending on post spacing, specific locations may change, but the general areas are represented. Last Friday night, I spent a bit of time making a scale model to ensure that I was able to visualize everything.

What might I not be considering? Thanks in advance!

First Floor:


Second Floor:


Scale Model (1 inch = 2 feet)


Location (I'll relocate the 12x24 shed):

 

[matt_i]

That's a killer scale model and great job to fully visualize it!!

A couple of things related to the post frame.

With the 2nd floor you are adding a lot of extra load concentrated in the posts past the roof+snow load. I think you will want to do something different than 8' post spacing there. Worth a study at least.

Insulating the post frame can get tricky. I have known a couple of people who later built a stick building inside of it (more or less) while insulating it.

(Im assuming septic system here...) do you share with the house or this drives its own tank + drainfield?

 

[gnpenning]

Is that the Stillwater?


Entire slab perimeter insulated.

Shift all garage doors to allow more sidewall on the big door side.

High lift on 10' garage doors. The big one you can have a couple inches added to the vertical track.

No man doors under 3'. I can't tell what you have in the plans with my phone so you may have already done that.

Larger landings will make moving gym equipment and other furniture much easier when you turn. Cover the landing and stairs if you can. Fridays snow storm wasn't bad and you know we get worse.

Window on second floor over looking garage. Easier to check doors and anything going on. Besides the wife can call you for dinner. I have a buddy that I tease about this because his wife likes to look over his shoulder in everything he does. His shop is detached for this very reason.

Why the double doors by the exercise room and main door? Having the door in the kitchen/family room would make moving equipment in and out much easier.

Upstairs bathroom have you considered a pocket door? Don't use a regular pocket door frame they are flimsy if you choose to go that way. Much better ways to go and have a solid wall and door.

Does your location have natural gas?

In floor electric and dust collection in the shop. Maybe a bump out for collector and air compressor to keep sound transmission down for the upstairs.

Who's post system do you plan on going with. One of the local ones my friend had some real issues with. They also did a building I have for the PO and left several things undone.

You may have already considered all of these, but you asked.

Should be a great place.

 

[humangoogle]

Thanks for the kind words about the model. It was fun it come to life. Not near as fun as the real thing I'm sure, but gotta start somewhere

The building will be engineered, but the callout for being aware of the load with the 2nd floor is a good one.

I spray-foamed my skoolie (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/project-otis-24012-2.html#post322172) and while I think it's a great product, the cost may be prohibitive to use that everywhere. I'll certainly be using that on the ceiling in the apartment area to cut down on rain noise though.

Still looking at the septic options. It's likely that I'll have to put in a separate system for the building.

 

[humangoogle]

Is that the Stillwater?


Entire slab perimeter insulated.

Shift all garage doors to allow more sidewall on the big door side.

High lift on 10' garage doors. The big one you can have a couple inches added to the vertical track.

No man doors under 3'. I can't tell what you have in the plans with my phone so you may have already done that.

Larger landings will make moving gym equipment and other furniture much easier when you turn. Cover the landing and stairs if you can. Fridays snow storm wasn't bad and you know we get worse.

Window on second floor over looking garage. Easier to check doors and anything going on. Besides the wife can call you for dinner. I have a buddy that I tease about this because his wife likes to look over his shoulder in everything he does. His shop is detached for this very reason.

Why the double doors by the exercise room and main door? Having the door in the kitchen/family room would make moving equipment in and out much easier.

Upstairs bathroom have you considered a pocket door? Don't use a regular pocket door frame they are flimsy if you choose to go that way. Much better ways to go and have a solid wall and door.

Does your location have natural gas?

In floor electric and dust collection in the shop. Maybe a bump out for collector and air compressor to keep sound transmission down for the upstairs.

Who's post system do you plan on going with. One of the local ones my friend had some real issues with. They also did a building I have for the PO and left several things undone.

You may have already considered all of these, but you asked.

Should be a great place.

It is the Stillwater. good eyes!

I should have been clearer in the original post. The living area here will be for guests, and possible rental in the future, not for day to day use. That's why the combined access to the workout space and the apartment space exists. I may switch the office/workout locations. It's a good callout though. I'll see if I might be able to simplify it a bit.

No NG here. Propane or electric are my easy options.

I was actually just thinking about the compressor location. Is it practical to do the bump-out on a post frame building? (learning a lot as I go here). and ooh, great idea for in-floor dust collection! thanks.

Still settling on a builder. What did you mean by post system? I figured they were all pretty similar. It'll be laminated 6x6 posts as far as I know regardless of who puts it up for me.

 

[joey1320]

Nothing of value to add other than holy schnikies that's going to be a badass building

 

[gnpenning]

I was actually just thinking about the compressor location. Is it practical to do the bump-out on a post frame building? (learning a lot as I go here). and ooh, great idea for in-floor dust collection! thanks.

should not be too big of a deal depending on how you a approach it. Since it's going to be a rental I wouldn't use a hard connection that might transfer noise upstairs. Pipe in a pipe for lines. Sound barrier along with Insulation between the floors will be important as well.



Still settling on a builder. What did you mean by post system? I figured they were all pretty similar. It'll be laminated 6x6 posts as far as I know regardless of who puts it up for me.

Who's are on your short list for builders?

Generally post frame buildings are bought as a kit from someone, are you doing it differently? If you were buying a kit from someone local that was what I was referring to they shorted many items.

You can pm me if you would like.

 

[Craig Balzer]

I am finishing up a 2300 SqFt Hobby Shop and just about ready to start populating it with stuff. What stuff? How is it all gonna fit? See below (sorry -- my OCD kicked in and I got pretty detailed):

GENERAL
• Build as big as you can afford/fit on your property.
• You gotta know your plan inside and out – when the builder asks to move something elsewhere, only you can visualize the impact on other things / stuff
• Be flexible when reality shows up – also be true to your overall plan
• Windows? PRO: natural light – CON: entry point for scoundrels
• Skylight(s)? PRO: natural light – CON: then no attic
• Keep the building dimensions in multiples of 4 feet – reduces wastage of wood
• A mezzanine is good for long-time storage of large or awkward items; plan for where the staircase is gonna be placed; plan how to get heavy items up there and back down

FLOOR
• Gonna place light(s) in floor under lift??
• First thing down is 10 mil vapor barrier
• Then closed-cell insulation – 2 inches thick
• In-floor tubing goes in before concrete pour – plan carefully if a lift is planned. Should be thicker concrete and limited pex tubing near posts
• Thickness? 4” works. Except under lift – my pour was 9-12" inches thick under posts.
• Plan now for smoothness of finish on concrete - - epoxy covering?
• Gonna wash cars in there – floor drain(s)? Lot’s of environmental issues to learn

WALLS
• 2x4 vs 2x6 construction. A 2x6 is pennies more per board and allows thicker insulation
• I have R19 in my walls (Colorado) and the building is noticeably cooler this summer
• I have R49 blown-in above the ceiling
• Sheath with OSB vs Dry Wall. Dry wall looks prettier but to hang anything heavy requirements finding a stud or two. OSB has more industrial appearance but a shelf goes wherever you want to put it
• Windows – already covered
• Height of walls? 12 or 13’ allows most lifts to fit (I have 14’ ceilings in main room)
• Tall walls require more heating capacity, but costs more to heat

ELECTRICAL
• Plan where your 110v outlets are gonna be, then add 50% more of them (mine are 4 feet apart except where a window gets in the way)
• Are you gonna use 15- or 20-Amp circuits? (different wiring requirements and different fixtures)
• Place them 45-48” above the floor level so they aren’t hidden later by benches, toolboxes, etc
• Plan for outlet(s) on the exterior of each wall
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for lift or drop light or other
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for garage door opener
• Plan for outlets up high on wall: wall clock, TV, modern “smart” speakers, other
• Lights – fluorescent or LED? Dimmable?
• Plan for exterior lights – Colorado Code requires a light above each man-door opening
• Plan for exterior lights – gonna have a patio nearby or BarBQ pit or horseshoe pit or Christmas lights?
• Plan for dedicated circuit for heater
• Plan for dedicated circuit for water heater
• Now plan where circuits are gonna start. Each can handle 8-10 outlets and each should start with a GFIC outlet
• Plan where your 220v outlets are gonna be. Consider welders, air compressor, lift, oven (powder coating), special tools, etc. Even if you won’t have these until the future, plan now to power them

WATER
• Gonna have a bathroom in there? A sink to wash up before going into the house is priceless
• Gonna have a bathroom in there? A sink to wash parts is useful
• A shower is priceless to avoid getting SWMBO’s towels and linens filthy
• Toilet?
• Hot water is nice to wash cars in the winter
• Plan a hose bibb on at least one exterior wall and maybe one inside

A/C

HEAT
• Gonna use in-floor PEX?
• If not, propane or electric heater will need power and proper placement
• See comments re height of walls

STUFF
What toys do you have? Do you plan to have? Sketch your floor plan to scale on gridded paper; don’t forget windows and doors. And then, to scale, place all your toys. All of them. The easy ones are toolbox(es), benches, welders, air compressor, and the like. Did you remember to ID a place to store floor jacks? Creeper? Jack stands? Ladder(s)?
Find a place for place everything:

o Welder
o Plasma Cutter
o Grinder
o Polisher / Buffer
o Powder Coating Oven
o Blast Cabinet
o Parts Washer
o Microwave
o Refrigerator
o Charging station for cordless tools
o Desk lamp
o TV
o Stereo
o Computer
o Phone
o Wall Art / Neon signs
o Other

STORAGE
• Plan cabinet(s) to store hardware (nuts, bolts, washers, this and that)
• Plan cabinet(s) to store supplies

 

[humangoogle]

I am finishing up a 2300 SqFt Hobby Shop and just about ready to start populating it with stuff. What stuff? How is it all gonna fit? See below (sorry -- my OCD kicked in and I got pretty detailed):

GENERAL
• Build as big as you can afford/fit on your property.
• You gotta know your plan inside and out – when the builder asks to move something elsewhere, only you can visualize the impact on other things / stuff
• Be flexible when reality shows up – also be true to your overall plan
• Windows? PRO: natural light – CON: entry point for scoundrels
• Skylight(s)? PRO: natural light – CON: then no attic
• Keep the building dimensions in multiples of 4 feet – reduces wastage of wood
• A mezzanine is good for long-time storage of large or awkward items; plan for where the staircase is gonna be placed; plan how to get heavy items up there and back down

FLOOR
• Gonna place light(s) in floor under lift??
• First thing down is 10 mil vapor barrier
• Then closed-cell insulation – 2 inches thick
• In-floor tubing goes in before concrete pour – plan carefully if a lift is planned. Should be thicker concrete and limited pex tubing near posts
• Thickness? 4” works. Except under lift – my pour was 9-12" inches thick under posts.
• Plan now for smoothness of finish on concrete - - epoxy covering?
• Gonna wash cars in there – floor drain(s)? Lot’s of environmental issues to learn

WALLS
• 2x4 vs 2x6 construction. A 2x6 is pennies more per board and allows thicker insulation
• I have R19 in my walls (Colorado) and the building is noticeably cooler this summer
• I have R49 blown-in above the ceiling
• Sheath with OSB vs Dry Wall. Dry wall looks prettier but to hang anything heavy requirements finding a stud or two. OSB has more industrial appearance but a shelf goes wherever you want to put it
• Windows – already covered
• Height of walls? 12 or 13’ allows most lifts to fit (I have 14’ ceilings in main room)
• Tall walls require more heating capacity, but costs more to heat

ELECTRICAL
• Plan where your 110v outlets are gonna be, then add 50% more of them (mine are 4 feet apart except where a window gets in the way)
• Are you gonna use 15- or 20-Amp circuits? (different wiring requirements and different fixtures)
• Place them 45-48” above the floor level so they aren’t hidden later by benches, toolboxes, etc
• Plan for outlet(s) on the exterior of each wall
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for lift or drop light or other
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for garage door opener
• Plan for outlets up high on wall: wall clock, TV, modern “smart” speakers, other
• Lights – fluorescent or LED? Dimmable?
• Plan for exterior lights – Colorado Code requires a light above each man-door opening
• Plan for exterior lights – gonna have a patio nearby or BarBQ pit or horseshoe pit or Christmas lights?
• Plan for dedicated circuit for heater
• Plan for dedicated circuit for water heater
• Now plan where circuits are gonna start. Each can handle 8-10 outlets and each should start with a GFIC outlet
• Plan where your 220v outlets are gonna be. Consider welders, air compressor, lift, oven (powder coating), special tools, etc. Even if you won’t have these until the future, plan now to power them

WATER
• Gonna have a bathroom in there? A sink to wash up before going into the house is priceless
• Gonna have a bathroom in there? A sink to wash parts is useful
• A shower is priceless to avoid getting SWMBO’s towels and linens filthy
• Toilet?
• Hot water is nice to wash cars in the winter
• Plan a hose bibb on at least one exterior wall and maybe one inside

A/C

HEAT
• Gonna use in-floor PEX?
• If not, propane or electric heater will need power and proper placement
• See comments re height of walls

STUFF
What toys do you have? Do you plan to have? Sketch your floor plan to scale on gridded paper; don’t forget windows and doors. And then, to scale, place all your toys. All of them. The easy ones are toolbox(es), benches, welders, air compressor, and the like. Did you remember to ID a place to store floor jacks? Creeper? Jack stands? Ladder(s)?
Find a place for place everything:

o Welder
o Plasma Cutter
o Grinder
o Polisher / Buffer
o Powder Coating Oven
o Blast Cabinet
o Parts Washer
o Microwave
o Refrigerator
o Charging station for cordless tools
o Desk lamp
o TV
o Stereo
o Computer
o Phone
o Wall Art / Neon signs
o Other

STORAGE
• Plan cabinet(s) to store hardware (nuts, bolts, washers, this and that)
• Plan cabinet(s) to store supplies

TONS of good info and things to consider there. Wow!

 

[jmarkwolf]

Don't know what "hydronic heating" is, but if it involves in-floor piping, make sure you map out where it is so you can someday bolt things to the floor.

I have a couple buddies, with in-floor heating, that subsequently want to drill and bolt things to the floor but are afraid to for fear of hitting the pipes They never documented where their pipes run.

 

[humangoogle]

Don't know what "hydronic heating" is, but if it involves in-floor piping, make sure you map out where it is so you can someday bolt things to the floor.

I have a couple buddies, with in-floor heating, that subsequently want to drill and bolt things to the floor but are afraid to for fear of hitting the pipes They never documented where their pipes run.

Good call. I plan on picking up a thermal camera to (hopefully) avoid any issues like that down the road. I will also avoid the lift area entirely.

 

[dcg9381]

I agree on man-door size. We have a 48" and love it. Note the swing (both ways) as it impacts things.

This is a 2-story shop, but the tallest door you can get in there. Make sure the doors don't rattle in their tracks under wind (our roll up doors do this). A 10' door is fine for most things, but boats, tractors, RVs, - 12' min with some requiring 14'.

I'd consider a "drive thru" door option - meaning a door on the back side also. It gives a lot of flexibility.

I like to drop several runs of electrical conduit, 1-1/4" from one side of the foundation to the other. This gives options for pex and allows you to take more than 60A of electrical from one side of the shop to the other without going around the walls or over the ceiling.

 

[puttinonthekritz]

I would consider getting rid of the two 10’ garage doors and acquire one 18’ or 20’ wide and maintain the same height as the other 12’ single door. It will provide you with a larger end cap on the south wall for toolboxes and cabinets and one large door is very nice given the circumstance. Plus if they’re all at the same height you’re never limiting yourself to just one door for taller campers, trailers, etc. I have a 46’ wide shop with 14’ side and I have an 18x12 door and 12x12 door with 2ft In between the doors and one end, the remainder is for breathing room away from the doors and work space wall.

 

[engineer2]

Great shop and if it's stock plan, you might be limited on changes.
Just my humble opinions:
The second floor bathroom should be by the bedrooms. The entrance to the bathroom should be secluded from the open living area. This was pointed out by the ladies when we built my employers factory.
The first floor storage room between the office and first floor bathroom seems odd, but you may have a reason for wanting it that way. Maybe swap the bathroom and storage room or make it an entrance hallway?
Access to the first floor bathroom from the office could flow a little better. I'd rather have an access door to the office and have the bathroom accessed from the inside.

 

[jives]

Put it down by the river with a porch overlooking the river.