First time using a table saw today

[Jswain]

The best thing you could do with a table saw is spend a few nights on google/youtube and look at all the jigs/aux. fences/featherboards/outfeed tables etc. that other people have made for them. Copy the ones you like and set it up proper from the get go without rushing into any other projects...it will make all the projects you use it for turn out twice as nice anyways.

Bare minimum I wouldn't be using mine without a large out feed table, a tall aux. fence, MANY different style push sticks/hold downs. Take the time and make it nice, a fence with a T-slot and you can hook a feather board in a few inches before the blade then your hand doesn't have to come anywhere near the blade. A feather board in the mitre slot keeps the material against the fence so your hand never has to come near the blade. All that leaves you with is feeding the material and with a good push stick(in many shapes/sizes) your hand never has to come near the blade. A large out feed table and you never have to worry about catching material from falling off the back. A homemade zero clearance insert and you don't have to worry about anything jamming down in the blade.

If you are going to be doing a lot of mitre cuts build a mitre cutting sled, doing a lot of crosscuts build a crosscutting sled. Once you build all these jigs then your hands aren't even close to the blade, and as long as your fence/trunions are set up parallel the chance of your workplace jamming or kicking back are reduced very much so. Combine that with a good riving knife and your guard and it will make your table saw experience much more enjoyable.

 

[Mk3Mike]

FS: Table saw. Low use. Contact for details..

 

[ggoss]

Definitely make a mitre sled, and get yourself a Grrripper and accessories (or make a clone like I did). I don't have the plans for my clone anymore (can post pictures though if you want), but I use it almost every time I use my table saw and feel endlessly safer because of it. Something like that holds both sides of the cut (i.e. on each side of the blade) down to the table and away from each other, preventing most mishaps you could face. They are expensive, which is why I made a clone, but waaay cheaper than a trip to the ER, and worth it for the peace of mind. There are plenty of YouTube videos demonstrating this.

 

[strutaeng]

This is a much debated argument for both sides...

You can thank Norm Abrams for helping market those darn things; that is why I bought one. "The table saw is the most versatile tool....If I could have just one tool it would be a table saw..." It sure didn't help that they started making them cheap and portable with tiny tabletops and inaccurate fences.

I have an uncle that has worked in a woodshop for 20+ years and he recently had an accident with the T.S. A guy that was working for my brother doing millwork also had an accident.

In the last few years I got involved in hand tool woodworking and learned craftsmanship such as cutting tenons by hand. It is actually very rewarding and not as slow as one might think. I can also listen to my classical music in the background and generates much less fine dust particles .

Fact is, there are other tools that are much safer for certain cuts than a T.S. Actually, the bandsaw is a much versatile, underrated power tool.

In my opinion, unless you are running a production shop, you don't need a table saw.

In the end I sold my T.S. and kept my bandsaw.

 

[Zeke]

This is a much debated argument for both sides...

You can thank Norm Abrams for helping market those darn things; that is why I bought one. "The table saw is the most versatile tool....If I could have just one tool it would be a table saw..." It sure didn't help that they started making them cheap and portable with tiny tabletops and inaccurate fences.

I have an uncle that has worked in a woodshop for 20+ years and he recently had an accident with the T.S. A guy that was working for my brother doing millwork also had an accident.

In the last few years I got involved in hand tool woodworking and learned craftsmanship such as cutting tenons by hand. It is actually very rewarding and not as slow as one might think. I can also listen to my classical music in the background and generates much less fine dust particles .

Fact is, there are other tools that are much safer for certain cuts than a T.S. Actually, the bandsaw is a much versatile, underrated power tool.

In my opinion, unless you are running a production shop, you don't need a table saw.

In the end I sold my T.S. and kept my bandsaw.

Very true, but I wouldn't want to not have one for the times it is the best tool.

 

[rlitman]

Has anyone mentioned proper blade height? I would think having the minimum amount of blade showing would decrease the chance for cutting off anything important.

Not quite. Too little blade showing sounds good, but is not always so safe in practice.

With no blade showing above the cut, the blade starts cutting horizontally, and that can lead to the work riding up the blade, and lead to a kickback (why you must be especially carefully setup when cutting a dado or rabbit). Or having a thicker or bent part of the work not being fully cut through, and lead to a kickback in a different manner (due to pinching the blade as the connected pieces move).

You generally want the first tooth to be heading down as it cuts into the wood, not up.

I try to set it so at least the full face of a carbide is above the work at the top of the cut. That's between 1/8" and 1/4" showing (the exact amount usually isn't that critical).

 

[rlitman]

]Fact is, there are other tools that are much safer for certain cuts than a T.S. Actually, the bandsaw is a much versatile, underrated power tool.

In my opinion, unless you are running a production shop, you don't need a table saw.

Couldn't agree less. The bandsaw is a really nice tool to have, but it doesn't make straight cuts. That's severely limiting.

 

[McFarmer]

I taught 12,13 and 14 year old boys and girls woodworking for 33 years. They used every machine in the shop, including lathe and table saw. By the time they were done most could use them without me standing there. The only accident was one time with a drill press, I worried more about the shaper than anything.

Fear is not the right word, I never told them to fear the equipment. Respect, maybe, I don't know. I told them these machines are dangerous, many things in life are dangerous. Driving a car going down the road 55 mph and meeting a semi going the other way and missing each other by 4-5 feet is dangerous.

Things can be dangerous without being unsafe. What makes something dangerous becoming unsafe ? When you don't follow the rules. Speeding ? Unsafe. Passing on yellow ? Unsafe. Climbing too high on a ladder ? Unsafe. Follow the rules of machine operation and using these tools is safe. I never saw a blade jump out and cut someone, people put their hands into the blade, for many reasons.

End of sermon.

 

[cheechi]

I bet you also told them (or had a lame poster) that accidents are preventable. First rule of safety everywhere, every time.

I completely agree with you in everything you have said.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

www.sawstop.com/

The inventor of that had a "marketing campaign" of trying to have government mandate his product. Most have a "screw him and his product" attitude because of it. Screw him.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

You want to feel more comfortable around a table saw? check out what a radial arm saw can do to you. Compared to the table, the arm saw can and will mess you up big time.

I own and use seven chain saws too. Common sense, and caution, and proper technique, are probably why I remain unscathed after decades of cutting stuff. ::shrug::

 

[MFolks]

Never use any power tools when cutting wood or metal, if you are sick, just had a fight with the wife, or upset. Distractions cause a majority of injury's. The machine does not matter if it's cutting you, or the material.

 

[woody 73]

refer to my post reply #26; read #'s 5, 8, & 9.

Oh and always use safety glasses.

PS: Common sense for all machines either with wood working or metal use.

 

[JoeMA]

The inventor of that had a "marketing campaign" of trying to have government mandate his product. Most have a "screw him and his product" attitude because of it. Screw him.

That's business. He wants a piece of every cabinet saw sold.

I have not used a Sawstop but hear that they are solid saws with the added safety benefit.

If it might save me a finger, I would consider it. Anyone have experience with one?

 

[thebeekeeper1]

That's business. He wants a piece of every cabinet saw sold.

I have not used a Sawstop but hear that they are solid saws with the added safety benefit.

If it might save me a finger, I would consider it. Anyone have experience with one?

Most of us consider "business" to be finding a need and making a superior product that does well in the marketplace--not forcing people to buy it via government edict.

I won't own one, but they are perfectly average saws, with normal features, and have the added feature of possibly protecting oneself from oneself, but also occasionally tripping when attempting to cut wet wood, such as PT. There is an adjustment for this, but if you forget, then you ruin a blade and the safety unit. No thanks.

 

[A_Pmech]

The inventor of that had a "marketing campaign" of trying to have government mandate his product. Most have a "screw him and his product" attitude because of it. Screw him.

Agreed entirely on all counts. The guy is trying desperately to monopolize the table saw market in America by:

A) Making it illegal to operate a table saw without his product in a business setting.
B) Using his patents prevent any other similar technology from being marketed.

Go figure, he's a patent lawyer by trade.

 

[woody 73]

I strongly suspect that when his pat'd runs out then more manufactures of Table saws will use his idea for their saws.

 

[cheechi]

the idea: not bad, though I bet every saw stop owner isn't brave enough to test it out even on a pinky. Prove me wrong.

the motivation: make the govt enforce companies paying you. i mean i can't say it's a bad idea but it's a **** move, at best. *&$@ that guy.

 

[7echo]

The Sawstop issue is a bit of a mess. A lot of guys seem to be against it, usually due to the idea that the owner is trying to force something on people. There are stories of how both sides acted wrongly, but the Sawstop guy seems to get all the anti comments.

The saws are great and the service is great. They looked at the Unisaw and P'matic 66 and said 'What can we do to make these things better in addition to the blade brake?' And they did. The saws are really nice. And I know of at least 3 instances where a major cut was probably avoided(you can never say for sure, who knows if the hand or finger would actually have been yanked back in time? heck, i knicked my thigh with a big Stihl bow saw once, never thought you could get barely knicked with such a beast) using the Sawstop.

Several good comments on this thread. One by P Mech on how to properly cross cut with a spacer is great.

Use a sled. Some guys call it a boat.
Use a splitter, really makes ripping safer and cuts way down on kick back potential.

And my number one safety rule for most things-

Don't touch the part whats movin.

 

[JoeMA]

Most of us consider "business" to be finding a need and making a superior product that does well in the marketplace--not forcing people to buy it via government edict.

It is commonplace for corporations/interest groups to actively attempt to influence legislature to gain favorable positions. You may not like it, but this has been going on as long as government.

The inventor lobbied to make it a requirement to incorporate a (his) safety brake into cabinet/table saws. This rubs some the wrong way because (1) they believe that his motive is financial gain and/or (2) the consumer will be forced to pay for this feature whether he wants it or not.

The government does #2 all the time. Its various arms (CPSC for consumer products, OHSA for working conditions...) impose safety regulations for the "greater welfare". An example is the auto industry. The government mandates automobiles to have certain safety features (airbags, stability control) which the consumer ultimately pays for whether he wants it or not.

I am not promoting Sawstop and, as I previously wrote, I have no experience with it. Folks who have concerns about the dangers of using a table saw may have interest in it though.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I'm sorry, but your comparison (#2) is not apt, as those items are available from multiple sources. He sought to mandate EVERY SAW SOLD has his device installed--until his patent expired.

I'm sure such things are commonly sought--that hardly makes it right. Jonas Sauk refused money from his polio vaccine. Let this guy do the same if he has altruistic motives.

 

[JoeMA]

I stated from the start that I believe that his motive is to get a piece of every table/cabinet saw that is sold. I don't believe that anyone mistakes this guy's actions as altruistic.

It is a pleasant surprise to find altruism in business dealings, but it is sadly the exception.

Now getting back to the topic of the thread...

 

[tymbo]

The saw stop guy went to table saw manufacturers and offered to license his technology. They ALL refused. So he built his own table saw. To me, this says more about the OTHER table saw manufacturers views on safety vs. cost.

For years, u.s. made table saws did not have a riving knife, which have been standard on European saws for a long time. Now, it is a government mandated safety feature. This did not make the news, like the saw stop story, but I believe the only difference is the cost of the feature.

 

[cheechi]

The saw stop guy went to table saw manufacturers and offered to license his technology.

Incorrect

He sought to mandate EVERY SAW SOLD has his device installed--until his patent expired.

Much more accurate.

I was an intern at a now-closed B&D facility when Dewalt was approached and turned him down. So this isn't just opinion although I admit you can see my opinion right there on the top layer.

From the start, his approach was the threat of legal action, as in 'when this becomes law' type threats. At first, it was more of a 'get in on the ground floor,' approach then when nobody bit he turned it up to full on aggressive. About a year back he tried to get the state of California to make his technology a legal requirement to operate a saw. Not a device that achieves the same level of safety, which is still questionable, but his actual patent number.

Trust me, the guy has no interest in yours or anyone else's safety.

 

[xfrk]

You should google 'board buddies', and consider getting a set for your saw fence. I've been using mine for 25 yrs. and they take a lot of the pucker factor out of general ripping. They have the added advantage of making your cuts cleaner, too. You still have to be careful, because wood can have stresses built into it that can cause it to bind during the cut. For this reason, it is a good idea to have a bump switch mounted on the front of the saw, which you can reach with your hip or thigh. My saw came with this kind of a switch, but you can buy them as an aftermarket part. If a cut starts to go bad, it can be difficult to let go of the work piece to hit the switch.

 

[redwrench60]

Everybody has either been hurt on a table saw or knows someone who has.

I have a scar behind my mustache 1 1/2 inches below my right eye from a wood chunk thrown from a table saw. I wasn't the one using it at the time and I was even standing outside the garage. It punched a hole through my lip to my teeth. I almost made my buddy puke by blowing blood bubbles through the hole.

 

[Westly]

A few secrets to using a table saw.

1 - Plant your feet firmly. Don't work on an uneven. slippery, or cluttered floor.
2 - Always maintain your balance. Don't over reach to the point that you have to use your hands to recover.
3 - Never stand directly behind the workpiece. (just in case it binds)
4 - When having to move to feed the material into the machine, never cross your steps. Always use more of a shuffling motion to move forward.
5 - Always use a push-stick when passing the end by the blade.
6 - Never force the material through the machine. Go slow and steady at the machines pace.
7 - Set up an out-feed support before you start.

And lastly - Always think through your steps before you start.

8. One I just thought up... Treat it like a loaded gun - it probably wouldn't kill you but treat it like it might so it can't. Look for what might go wrong and be in a position where when it does, it can't hurt you.

I saw a guy on TV the other night chopping something, being taught and supervised even, and every time he came down he was missing his thumb by about two inches. Get that thumb the hell out of there!

 

[Kaervak]

You think modern table saws are scary? I have my grandfather's 1950's Craftsman table saw. That thing is from the era of not spilling your rum and coke being considered all the workplace safety you needed.

 

[BikerDad]

This is a much debated argument for both sides...

You can thank Norm Abrams for helping market those darn things; that is why I bought one. "The table saw is the most versatile tool....If I could have just one tool it would be a table saw..." It sure didn't help that they started making them cheap and portable with tiny tabletops and inaccurate fences.

They were making 'em cheap and portable before Norm came along.

Actually, the bandsaw is a much versatile, underrated power tool.

In my opinion, unless you are running a production shop, you don't need a table saw.

In the end I sold my T.S. and kept my bandsaw.

Versatile? Yes. However, a bandsaw simply does not do as good of a job at CLEAN STRAIGHT cuts. With solid wood, this means more time spent at a jointer or with a shooting board to clean up the cut. With plywood? Well, cleanup up plywood cuts just doesn't work all that well.

Mind you, I think you're correct in your general assessment, but you are underrating the table saw and overrating the bandsaw a smidge. I do think that a good bandsaw makes a better "cornerstone" of most shops than a tablesaw, but I wouldn't want to be without either. FWIW, I currently have two bandsaws (cheap Chinese Delta 14" clone by Delta, and a 24" Italian beast) and a Delta Contractor's Saw, supplemented with a Porter Cable Sidewinder.

A good bandsaw, a decent CMS, and a good track saw make one heckuva arsenal. Which just goes to show that there's a lot of different ways to butcher wood. It just depends on how one wants to build whatever it is one wants to build.

And yes, if someone starting out is asking me which they should get first, I'm going to say "bandsaw" these days, unless they're set on doing a lot of casework using sheet goods.

 

[fiv216]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, not really in the mood to read four pages.

Best advice I could give you, even though I'm a decade younger is not to be afraid of any tool, as most have said, learn how it works and use it that way & obviously respect what it can do if you mess around with it. (Disclaimer advice coming from my dad who is at 9.25 fingers, if it makes you feel better its because of a joiner not a table saw.)

Btw, in my high school shop class we had a saw stop.. really good saw, only problem I had with it the teeth that hold down the wood after it passes through the blade (not sure the technical name) are REALLY stiff. sometimes to the point where it'd pop the other end of the board up.

 

[monomach]

You think modern table saws are scary? I have my grandfather's 1950's Craftsman table saw. That thing is from the era of not spilling your rum and coke being considered all the workplace safety you needed.

My grandfather said that back in his day, only women watered down their rum with coke.

 

[ggoss]

You think modern table saws are scary? I have my grandfather's 1950's Craftsman table saw. That thing is from the era of not spilling your rum and coke being considered all the workplace safety you needed.

I use a Crowntop one several times per week in my own garage. If you build a few safety features into it (e.g. make a zero-clearance insert with a splitter, make a mitre sled if you make lots of these types of cuts, use/build an outfeed table or work support for long pieces, buy/make something like a grrripper instead of gambling with fiddly/unstable push-sticks), use common sense (definitely make sure that damn fence is square when locking), and treat it with respect, it should give you no problems.

I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but some people also build a biesemeyer-style fence onto them using extruded aluminum, though the cheapest I've priced that out to is a little <$100, and I'd rather square my fence by hand every time I adjust it than pony up $100 so I don't have to. If the materials somehow drop below $50, then I might.

 

[tymbo]

Incorrect

Much more accurate.

I was an intern at a now-closed B&D facility when Dewalt was approached and turned him down. So this isn't just opinion although I admit you can see my opinion right there on the top layer.

From the start, his approach was the threat of legal action, as in 'when this becomes law' type threats. At first, it was more of a 'get in on the ground floor,' approach then when nobody bit he turned it up to full on aggressive. About a year back he tried to get the state of California to make his technology a legal requirement to operate a saw. Not a device that achieves the same level of safety, which is still questionable, but his actual patent number.

Trust me, the guy has no interest in yours or anyone else's safety.

And why did Dewalt turn him down? Almost certainly because the cost was deemed too high. It would eat into their profits! So who is putting $ before safety?
Ultimately the market will decide the outcome of this. Saw stop is selling a lot of saws, and guess what? they are well built machines. The technology works, and has already prevented many serious injuries.

I am waiting for the first lawsuit against dewalt, from a person who lost a finger, and found out it COULD have been prevented by a safety device that was offered to dewalt, and was not implemented. The lawyers are going to have a field day with this!

 

[bsaint]

lathe picture is kind of ridiculous for this forum.

 

[BikerDad]

Most of us consider "business" to be finding a need and making a superior product that does well in the marketplace--not forcing people to buy it via government edict.

I won't own one, but they are perfectly average saws, with normal features, and have the added feature of possibly protecting oneself from oneself, but also occasionally tripping when attempting to cut wet wood, such as PT. There is an adjustment for this, but if you forget, then you ruin a blade and the safety unit. No thanks.

Well, since most of the advice regarding safety using a tablesaw given thus far is completely negated "if you forget", then perhaps it is worthwhile to compare the costs of forgetting.

Forget the safety advice when using a traditional table saw: finger/hand injury/loss and kickback. This risk comes into play every time you use the saw.

Forget to turn off the sensing system when cutting wet wood/metals on a Sawstop: cartridge triggers, cost of cartridge and probably blade. This risk only comes into play when cutting conductive materials, i.e. wet wood, most metals, bacon, etc.

So, FWIW, the cost of forgetting seems to be MUCH higher on a traditional saw.

The above is offered only as a rejoinder to an implied idiotic argument ["forgetting on the Sawstop can cost soooo much, better to get a traditional saw"], and is not an endorsement of either traditional saws or Sawstop.

 

[jim2664258]

You will get more comfortable with power saws the more you use them.

Biggest pieces of advice I can offer for using a table/miter/circular/whatever saw:

1) Before you cut, CLEAR YOUR MIND. Forget about other **** going on in your life, concentrate on what you are doing in front of you. Sounds obvious, but this is the biggest thing you can do to increase safety.

2) Before you turn the power on, where is your off hand? Not the one holding the piece, that one you pay attention to. Where is your other hand?

3) Either never cut a piece that is already small, or have the proper equipment to safely do so. You put a small piece of wood near a fast-spinning blade and it could jerk in any direction. Do you want your fingers that close to the blade?

 

[Notgrownup]

I was gutting laminate flooring the other night and was thinking Damn, tat sumbitch is sharp...I better watch where I put my thumb...

 

[BikerDad]

I'm sorry, but your comparison (#2) is not apt, as those items are available from multiple sources. He sought to mandate EVERY SAW SOLD has his device installed--until his patent expired.

Incorrect. He tried to get flesh sensing blade braking technology mandated on every table saw sold. Not his technology. While his tech was the only such at the time, such a mandate would have spurred much more activity in the sector. Are his patents broad enough to eliminate any other solutions? I doubt it. Could he have convinced the gubmint mandators to frame the mandate so narrowly that ONLY his tech would satisfy it? I doubt it even more, especially since he wasn't even able to get any mandate in place.

As far as the comparison with Salk goes, 'tis bogus. Salk wasn't necessarily a moral giant, it's more likely that he was a man already aware that such a patent was unlikely to hold up due to prior art.

 

[BikerDad]

You will get more comfortable with power saws the more you use them.

Biggest pieces of advice I can offer for using a table/miter/circular/whatever saw:

1) Before you cut, CLEAR YOUR MIND. Forget about other **** going on in your life, concentrate on what you are doing in front of you. Sounds obvious, but this is the biggest thing you can do to increase safety.

2) Before you turn the power on, where is your off hand? Not the one holding the piece, that one you pay attention to. Where is your other hand?

3) Either never cut a piece that is already small, or have the proper equipment to safely do so. You put a small piece of wood near a fast-spinning blade and it could jerk in any direction. Do you want your fingers that close to the blade?

To add to this, with regards to portable circular saws:
4) If you do not have it unplugged, ALWAYS treat it as though the blade is spinning. Just because your finger is off the trigger doesn't mean the blade has stopped. You can google pics and stories of folks who've injured/removed fingers, hands, toes, thighs, etc with a circular saw.

Here's a graphic instructional video:

Pay attention ALWAYS to where and how you set that circular saw down.

 

[cheechi]

Ultimately the market will decide the outcome of this. Saw stop is selling a lot of saws, and guess what? they are well built machines. The technology works, and has already prevented many serious injuries.

I have looked at them in person and yes they are well built saws. I would not ever buy one however while that jackass would make any money from me. If it means workers at one company benefit while others suffer, well all I can really do is apologize about that. In the price range of a real cabinet saw, I would probably buy a used one anyway. I have been making due with a portable all these years so far anyway.

I am not saying Dewalt, TTI, Ridgid, Steel City, etc are any better. I am not saying anybody turned him down for any noble reason. What I am saying is that guy will not get any of my money because of his business practices and general ***-hole-ness.