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First time welder, suggestions?

sixty4

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Hi all, need some advice. I want to get into doing some small welding projects. I doubt I would ever do anything thicker than 1/4" steel. What is the best bang for the buck.Should I be looking at tig or mig? I have used a stick welder many years ago but it's been a long time ago. I have outlets for 110 and 220 in my garage already. Thanks! :beer:
 
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drivesitfar

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Sixty: i'm in almost the exact situation as you are looking for a good welder. there is a thread in this section that has me almost convinced to by a Miller 211 that can run off of 110 or 220. another member started a thread today on the same welder in the general tool section so read those threads and either post on them or let us know on your thread what you think.

as soon as i get the space i'm almost sure i'm buying the Miller 211.

good luck
 

'sallgood

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"Continuing education". Night school as they used to call it.Go take a class. You'll figure out what you need.Little MIG's work (135-180A)for most things. An AC stick(225) is nice to have around in case something heavier needs welding.Trailer hitches and the like.
Take a class first. Decide from there.You'll meet some like minded people.
 

HMCFab9

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If Zoro tools has a good % off / discount sale in the future....I'd definitely get a Miller from them.
I have 2 Miller welders & have never had a problem with either one of them.
 

doojus

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disclaimer: I have a TIG and MIG machine


MIG isn't always best, let's examine what you want to do first. What is your budget? What types of metal do you want to weld? Will you be mostly working on ornamental projects where weld appearance is most important, or will you be working on structural projects where you just need to get some metal stuck together?

If you want to do a plethora of metals on the cheap get a tig, you can go from mild steel to stainless to aluminum with about $15 of filler rod instead of changing your gas cylinder, drive rolls, spools, etc on a mig. Also if you just want to make a few nice looking welds go with tig. If you're doing mild steel all of the time and want to get your projects done fast, mig is what you want.
 

sberry

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MIG isn't always best, let's examine what you want to do first. What is your budget? What types of metal do you want to weld? Will you be mostly working on ornamental projects where weld appearance is most important, or will you be working on structural projects where you just need to get some metal stuck together?
While its true it isn't always the best its a good start especially since he has none and it is a machine I would want in the lineup no matter how many other ones I had.
He is confused already, this is a no miss, highest used machine for maintain and general light fab work.
This discounts the specialist but I make a 1000 steel welds to the single exotic alloy and I got 10 miles of aluminum pipe. We can pretty much discount the DIY types from that app so I got to look back real hard to find a half a dozen times I really need to weld something cant be done with a 200 mig in the homeowner/handyman life.
 

sberry

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BD1 steers you on to the 211 which is fine and I got to say from a general perspective the spool gun has replaced my tig. I have it, have a big bottle and resisted, once I use it I regret not going so way sooner. Its worth the save **** factor. Its fast.
If a guy wants to cheap out on the deal look at the Hobart 240 models and the Red ones, 180T I believe from the box stores. Seems I heard someone paid under 7 for one?
This is an item to really consider buying new for a couple reasons. 1 being they have super warranties, not that you will likely need it but the price is right, these last a long time and people got them do not sell them.
 

sberry

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120V are quite fluid in the used market from people trading to the 180/200 240v models. The 211 has been tuned with a pinch more on the top end than the older ones but till you get there the arc is super duper in most of the recent models by the major competitors.
You made it this long without it so for the most part do not worry much about dual voltage although guys seem to use it. For me it wouldn't be a stretch to find power but for the most part I think a guy will find a home in a place where its convenient to use and a chunk of cord for it wouldn't be too pricey to reach out of the way or around things on occasion.
 
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sberry

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You have 120/240 but ideally is to have outlet where the machine is at home that the fac cord reaches. If you ever intend to use other welders use a 10 cord for an extension 10 ft longer than you ever think you will need it, these (small mig) machines and small inverters are legal with 12 cord.
 
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trackwelder

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disclaimer: I have a TIG and MIG machine


MIG isn't always best, let's examine what you want to do first. What is your budget? What types of metal do you want to weld? Will you be mostly working on ornamental projects where weld appearance is most important, or will you be working on structural projects where you just need to get some metal stuck together?

If you want to do a plethora of metals on the cheap get a tig, you can go from mild steel to stainless to aluminum with about $15 of filler rod instead of changing your gas cylinder, drive rolls, spools, etc on a mig. Also if you just want to make a few nice looking welds go with tig. If you're doing mild steel all of the time and want to get your projects done fast, mig is what you want.

I can make glass smooth welds with a mig, I'm sure other guys can to:willy_nil
Why would I want to use Argon on steel when, Co2, 75/25 is cheaper.
Buy a compact 211 or comparable welder you won't be disappointed.
 

doojus

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I can make glass smooth welds with a mig, I'm sure other guys can to:willy_nil
Why would I want to use Argon on steel when, Co2, 75/25 is cheaper.
Buy a compact 211 or comparable welder you won't be disappointed.


And then OP responds that all he ever welds is aluminum, so then he has to buy a 100% argon tank, aluminum drive rollers, and a spoolgun or a push/pull gun on top of the mig.

That's why I asked what he wants to do instead of just having a thread full of assumptions.
 

sberry

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If you got a few things, a couple cars a power mower or 2, landscaping yard sheet, a trailer then you should run to the nearest place and score a 200 mig on your credit card.
The first weld you make cost 1200, best C25 bottle you can score, 2 rolls of 030 solid wire and some extra tips. Forget about everything else, you do not need a spare liner or every flavor of wire they make. If you run up against a steady diet of sheet work switch out to 023 but mine been 030 for over 20 yrs.
It gives these units good range and lets them take advantage of their top end. They pretty much all work good low but how much poop its got is ALWAYS the issue, even on light metals, more poop is faster and in many respects easier.
 

sberry

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I can make glass smooth welds with a mig, I'm sure other guys can to:willy_nil
Why would I want to use Argon on steel when, Co2, 75/25 is cheaper.
Buy a compact 211 or comparable welder you won't be disappointed.
This should be repeated as simple as possible. I aint never met anyone ever used it within its intended range been disappointed, never.
BD1 says he wished he would have waited for price but what did he do with it the 3 years? It doesn't take much to salvage a few assets to pay and I could add most bought them wished they would have bought sooner, me being one of them.
My helper/tech fixed his bumper on old truck, no money, little bit of time, few cents in materials and machine equity, done before you could find someone to do it.
 
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trackwelder

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And then OP responds that all he ever welds is aluminum, so then he has to buy a 100% argon tank, aluminum drive rollers, and a spoolgun or a push/pull gun on top of the mig.

That's why I asked what he wants to do instead of just having a thread full of assumptions.

Assumptions!!! The OP stated he does not see himself going over 1/4" STEEL!!!
Go back and read the first post. He obviously has little experience so a Tig welder is really not a good fit for him doing small welding projects.
 

doojus

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Assumptions!!! The OP stated he does not see himself going over 1/4" STEEL!!!

"I doubt I would ever do anything thicker than 1/4" steel.


This is what we call a hypothetical.


He obviously has little experience so a Tig welder is really not a good fit for him doing small welding projects.

Let's find out what he wants to do first and give him the pluses and minuses of each instead of deciding for him.
 
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sberry

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And then OP responds that all he ever welds is aluminum, so then he has to buy a 100% argon tank, aluminum drive rollers, and a spoolgun or a push/pull gun on top of the mig.

That's why I asked what he wants to do instead of just having a thread full of assumptions.

Yes we make assumptions but Track hit it on the head in some respect. He could get all kinds of technical advice, about like a laptop or digital cameras, most of it is really good but where there is a difference is 2 minor points. First he mentions steel and not every metal he can think of which leads me to believe he has some concept (and I have realistic concept of the view of whats the workhorse in small shops) so I view myself as a consulting salesman and want to get the right machine for him, often contrary to hype and previous belief hearsay or experience.
A kid uses a Dialarc in a class and its the best machine ever, he has to have one, doesn't realize a 50A AC/DC buzzer is really the right unit for him and is adequate, I can tell it is because I am a class or step up and its adequate for me, probably for him unless his daddy is excavating contractor.
 

sberry

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A great bit of effort in the welding world has been tailored to the garage journal member and what they keep coming up with is a refined compact mig, same basic unit they made 25 yrs ago except with a few additional features. I am all for most innovation, auto dark hoods are a Godsend but I can out tune the auto with the 5 speed on the HD Lincoln.
I like to see a guy gets results from a purchase like this. This is or can be an extremely rewarding. Getting good fast results leads to more and often the real point isn't welding but to build and repair something.
Most of the worlds equipment is made out of steel. Good share of the weight in a computer is steel.
 
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doojus

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First he mentions steel and not every metal he can think of which leads me to believe he has some concept

Oh yeah, I'm sure after we get all of the details it will turn out a MIG is best for him. Most of the 'what welder should I get' threads end up that way. I just want to arrive at that conclusion after finding out what OP is doing instead of guessing. OP might learn something and might also be aware of the pros and cons of his new welder if we go through that process first.


If a friend asked me what welder he should get I wouldn't just tell him to run out and get a MM 211, I'd find out what he wants to do first.
 

BD1

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If you want things done right you need options. Options in this case is MULTIPLE WELDING MACHINES !!! End of story ! :lol: :beer:

You can never have ONE . Look a ratchets, 1/4'' , 3/8'' , and 1/2'' drive . OK for the BIG GUYS, 3/4'' and 1'' . See it is easy, more machines ! :thumbup:
 

sberry

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I agree, if you get there and got a burning desire or a real need then getting in to a specialized machine is not a bad plan. I really could get by with 2 machines anymore, a feeder and a Maxstar 150S and if I had to be portable a small genset to run the 150
 

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samdemo

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When I was looking for a home welder, I decided to go with a multi-process or 3-1 welder.

While my welding at work is limited, there is always a stick welder that is available to use on the boats. I really wanted to try some MIG and TIG welding and see where things take me. Most of the stuff I will do will be with steel so while the lack of Aluminum TIG welding is a little disappointing, I'm not sure at this point if it will be a huge factor. Any big aluminum projects could be done with a spool gun so that's always an option.

I managed to get my 3-1 for not a huge investment and they had a free rebate to get a tig gun. Buying tanks can be pricey but I've found some cheap ones via CL so they helps.

If I decide at some point I really just want to TIG or MIG, I can always sell the welder and use it to lessen the cost of buying a new one.
 
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sixty4

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Run that on a good electrical circuit, and if needed a heavy ext cord. I have his little brother and it's my dedicated sheet metal, exhaust, and bench work welder.

Tried a little today when I got home. I need some advice on what is going on here? I can smack it with a hammer and all good but looks horrible? Thanks again all.

 

trackwelder

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Tried a little today when I got home. I need some advice on what is going on here? I can smack it with a hammer and all good but looks horrible? Thanks again all.


Can you get a few clearer pictures? Let us know what you have the machine set for, how thick your material is, etc

I would cut a few small pieces and run some practice welds. Please don't be afraid to post close ups of your work.
 
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sixty4

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Thanks will do in morning (I appreciate the help). I was playing around with scrap pieces I had so figured I would start on the project I am building. I have the feeder setting on a slower speed and power pretty high for welding square stock to thicker metal on chassis. Looks like I am getting good penetration (to me anyway) The square stock to square stock is sort of ok (but ugly). I am not running shielding gas maybe the big difference? Making all passes in an E configuration as I am going along.
 

sberry

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You need to read the book and the chart a bit. The speed IS the power and the voltage is the intensity and needs to be raised to burn the wire off. They go together so to speak. When you are looking at the chart I spose it can be a bit misleading as they ask a thickness and then refer to a V setting but it really should be the other way around, pick the wire speed that matches the thickness and then the voltage required to burn it off.
As you riase the wire the current goes up and the V drops
 

Fender1325

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To the OP - take a piece of spare material youre working with and practice laying beads on it. Grind it clean so where you weld is clean and where your ground clamp goes is clean as well.

Set your power and wire speed to the suggested settings, then experiment moving the wire feed speed a little bit before laying each bead. Pay close attention to what the arc looks like and more importantly what it SOUNDS like. Keep going down until the light flashes and is inconsistent. Work your way back up until it does the same thing - flashes and is inconsistent. These are your parameters for that power setting. The sweet spot will sound like bacon sizzling and will be consistent and smooth.

Do the same experimenting with higher power settings. What will effect things also is your own travel speed.

The point is to try all kinds of settings and make it fail (inconsistent arc, popping sounds, high spatter, etc). Then you will begin to know your machine.

Also remember, a weld can look pretty and not penetrate worth a damn, so make sure the power is high enough and your travel speed is slow enough. This especially applies on heavier material, like 1/8" and above. (Depending on the machine)
 

tac

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Hi all, need some advice. I want to get into doing some small welding projects. I doubt I would ever do anything thicker than 1/4" steel. What is the best bang for the buck.Should I be looking at tig or mig? I have used a stick welder many years ago but it's been a long time ago. I have outlets for 110 and 220 in my garage already. Thanks! :beer:

How about all three? Take a look at the Tweco/Victor/Thremal Arc fabricator series.
 
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