First welder arrives today...

[dmw16]

I know everyone pushed for it, but I just couldn't do it on the Miller 211, so I "settled" for the 141. So now that we've got that out of the way...

It arrives today and I'm eager to get started. I'm sure that between the holidays, and work, and family it will probably have to wait until my week off between Christmas and new years, but I at least want to be setup to go.

For now my plan is to run gas and just start practicing making beads over and over. Then putting pieces of scrap together, and so on.

I had figured on getting one of those HF folding welding tables since space is super limited in my 1 car garage.

Anyway, my real question is, what gas would you guys recommend? CO2? Stargon? Obviously not pure argon...

For practicing I don't think I need the best mixtures, but I also don't want half a tank of stuff that isn't suitable to use when I go to stat doing real work (patching a few rust holes and building a basic exhaust).

Thanks.

 

[ilovevocs]

75/25 argon/co2. Start with the settings listed on your machine. Not familiar with that version but I bet they are on the inside of the door.

Your going to want to pick up extra tips for what ever wire diameter you choose.

You'll want some form of cutting tool for snipping the wire.

A cheap harbor freight angle grinder with cut off wheel and some grinding wheels will go a long way towards building scrap projects if you don't already have one. If you want to upgrade and just buy a quality grinder out of the gate I would recommend metabo.

A framing square and fine point sharpie work well in conjunction with the grinder for laying out cuts.

if your welding inside you may consider purchasing a welding blanket or two from harbor freight to contain the sparks / spatter.

Do a quick check around in the vicinity of your welding area and clear it of anything flammable / explosive.

Also buy a fire extinguisher for your workshop if you don't already have one.

Have fun and enjoy.

 

[BD1]

Congrats on the NEW machine !!! You'll love it. I have a older 140 and the 211 old style, great machines. The machine will perform better on a dedicated circuit and avoid using a standard 14 or 16 gauge extension cord.
As for gas 75/25 is what I use and suggest getting a 125 CF bottle. Some like straight CO 2 , however the 75/25 is much cleaner. It depends on what type of work you'll be doing. If doing artwork, the 75/25 works nice. IF you decide to go with CO 2 I would spend the bucks on a DEDICATED CO 2 regulator. Some guys use CO 2 with the furnished one but I wouldn't. Sale Price: $35.00
You save $54.95!
http://www.usaweld.com/CO2-Welding-Flowmeter-p/12020-co2.htm

If you want a good welding site go here, http://weldingweb.com/

Check craigs list for a tank and local suppliers. Ask local suppliers about exchanging tanks BEFORE you by from private party. Tank exchanges could be a problem with some suppliers. What's your location ?

 

[dmw16]

Thanks for the suggestions. The 75/25 is what they call Stargon, right? Just trying to get the lingo

I had figured on going to Home Depot and getting the parts needed to build a beefy extension cord. Either 6 or 8 gauge to be covered even if that's overkill.

...Check craigs list for a tank and local suppliers. Ask local suppliers about exchanging tanks BEFORE you by from private party. Tank exchanges could be a problem with some suppliers. What's your location ?

I'm in Frederick, MD. I had figured on heading over to Robert's Oxygen which is the most local place to me and just getting a tank from them and then letting them handle refills. Seems like the easiest approach and avoids issues/hassles with "3rd party tanks"

 

[dmw16]

I'll get a few welding blankets. Are the HF ones good enough?

I've got all the other stuff...grinder, fire extinguisher, etc. Used one extensively and the other not at all (fortunately) when I built my race car over the last 16 months.

 

[ilovevocs]

I used a HF welding blanket in my shop as a welding curtain for almost three years. It worked well for me.

Here is a link... http://www.harborfreight.com/6-ft-x-8-ft-fiberglass-welding-blanket-95015.html

 

[BD1]

REMINDER HF has their 25% off coupon reposted for a few more days.

WISE choice on the tank, safest way with no issues.

 

[Ilikeike]

Thanks for the suggestions. The 75/25 is what they call Stargon, right? Just trying to get the lingo

I had figured on going to Home Depot and getting the parts needed to build a beefy extension cord. Either 6 or 8 gauge to be covered even if that's overkill.




I'm in Frederick, MD. I had figured on heading over to Robert's Oxygen which is the most local place to me and just getting a tank from them and then letting them handle refills. Seems like the easiest approach and avoids issues/hassles with "3rd party tanks"

I went to HD to get some SOOW cord to build my extension, saw the price

I got some cheaper at Amazon.

I went 8g and 30' for my Miller 180 that I mostly use for 14g or smaller.

 

[dmw16]

REMINDER HF has their 25% off coupon reposted for a few more days.

WISE choice on the tank, safest way with no issues.

Saw that! I'll get down there this weekend.

I went to HD to get some SOOW cord to build my extension, saw the price

I got some cheaper at Amazon.

I went 8g and 30' for my Miller 180 that I mostly use for 14g or smaller.

Did you get the wire from amazon or just get a pre-made extension?

EDIT: seems like most of the premade ones for for 220V. So guess I'm DIY'ing.

 

[Ilikeike]

Saw that! I'll get down there this weekend.



Did you get the wire from amazon or just get a pre-made extension?

EDIT: seems like most of the premade ones for for 220V. So guess I'm DIY'ing.

Just wire, I have a good collection of 50a and 30amp cord ends in the shop.
But I did see the made up cords already at Amazon,that may be a good way to go after you factor in the costs of buying the ends too.

I got this http://http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011IVU9VY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

[Fender1325]

75/25 co2 argon - go to airgas and buy a tank.

get a spool of solid .030 wire to run with it.

I would also get a spool of .030 flux core wire to practice with. It welds the same in my opinion, you just dont waste gas while you're laying tons of practice beads. Get stiff wire brush too. Thats all ya need.

 

[zkling]

Thanks for the suggestions. The 75/25 is what they call Stargon, right? Just trying to get the lingo

I had figured on going to Home Depot and getting the parts needed to build a beefy extension cord. Either 6 or 8 gauge to be covered even if that's overkill.




I'm in Frederick, MD. I had figured on heading over to Robert's Oxygen which is the most local place to me and just getting a tank from them and then letting them handle refills. Seems like the easiest approach and avoids issues/hassles with "3rd party tanks"

Stargon has oxygen in it IIRC, stargold is their plain 75/25 mixture, also called C-25.

6 or 8ga extension is absurd for that machine, you will be more than fine on a 10ga piece of cord, and really a 12ga gets used quite often for 120v machines without issue.

 

[creativecars]

What wire are you going to use to practice? If thin metal like exhaust is what you will be working on I would go with .023 wire. What will be your main use for this welder?

 

[Thumper68]

I 2nd getting both solid wire and flux cored but not so much to save gas but to have on hand when the tank runs dry in the middle of a project on Saturday afternoon.

I like c25 gas it is what most people use for general welding because it works.

Get a good quality pair of mig pliers.

Don't forget a welding jacket and gloves. I just picked up a pair of Black Stallion gloves and they are now my go to pair, good insulation and good flexabilty and feel. For the jacket I have a inexpensive Hobart branded cotton has worked well for the last few years.

For practicing do it the same way you would when doing a project, clean your metal well, get good fit ups and go to town.

By practicing with the machine set up and the steel just as if you were doing a real project you will get get the same results, the same feel and be able to jump into a project all the faster.

I see way to many guys who skip the prep steps when practicing and then can't get good welds.

 

[dmw16]

What wire are you going to use to practice? If thin metal like exhaust is what you will be working on I would go with .023 wire. What will be your main use for this welder?

I think it comes with a spool of .030 solid and (maybe?) a roll of flux core. I'll have to check.

I'm not sure I'll have a main use. But my first 2 real projects will be patching some rust holes in my race car (when the previous owner had the cage put in they didn't rust-prevention around the plates so it rusted around them) and then building an exhaust.

After that, we'll see. I'd like to build some shelves, maybe a cart. I also hope my wife (who's a music teacher) needs me to build show sets so I can totally justify buying a welder in the first place

 

[creativecars]

.023 is preferred for body work as it does not take as much heat to melt the wire and less chance of warping the metal around it. Exhaust would be about the same thickness... with some rust also. I don't think they make flux core in .023, only .030 and larger. I use .023 for most things up to 3/16 with great success.

 

[BD1]

I never ran flux core but read that some that have had liner issues. IF you don't plan on using it I won't even try it. If you need to work outside with thicker material look for a used stick welder like a Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln tombstone in AC / DC .
As for mig pliers either the Welpers or Channellock is my choice. The HF ones Do Not cut worth a darn.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005K01F1S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OHH4FO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[dmw16]

I'll get a spool of the .023 along with a consumables kit. Hopefully Robert's carries that stuff. They are a miller dealer so they should.

I put a set of Irwin welding pliers on my christmas list (people complain I'm hard to buy for...so I got this welder for THEM) along with gloves, a jacket, etc.

 

[jimgood]

I never ran flux core but read that some that have had liner issues. IF you don't plan on using it I won't even try it. If you need to work outside with thicker material look for a used stick welder like a Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln tombstone in AC / DC .
As for mig pliers either the Welpers or Channellock is my choice. The HF ones Do Not cut worth a darn.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005K01F1S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OHH4FO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I've never needed those. I must be doing something wrong because I cut my wire with regular wire cutters, pull it out with regular pliers (which is only needed when a spool runs empty) and remove/install my nozzles with my fingers.

 

[vintagespeed1956]

stargold, "steel mix", 75/25. they'll know what you want.

 

[Ilikeike]

I've never needed those. I must be doing something wrong because I cut my wire with regular wire cutters, pull it out with regular pliers (which is only needed when a spool runs empty) and remove/install my nozzles with my fingers.

There good for cleaning the nozzle too. Nice to have 1 multi tool on your cart.

I got the channel locks for home, I tried the HF pair,tossed them in the trash as soon as I tried them.

 

[BD1]

I've never needed those. I must be doing something wrong because I cut my wire with regular wire cutters, pull it out with regular pliers (which is only needed when a spool runs empty) and remove/install my nozzles with my fingers.

There great for nozzle removal, cleaning , and contact tip removal . You can use at a hammer too.

 

[Thumper68]

There great for nozzle removal, cleaning , and contact tip removal . You can use at a hammer too.

The only thing that they are not good at (as far as welding goes) is picking up hot parts.

Another tip for your LWS take some time and talk to the counter guys, get to know them a bit, goes along way when you need something 30 minutes before they close, or getting a good deal on stuff.

 

[Fender1325]

I've never needed those. I must be doing something wrong because I cut my wire with regular wire cutters, pull it out with regular pliers (which is only needed when a spool runs empty) and remove/install my nozzles with my fingers.

Naaaa. I do the same thing. You dont need them.

 

[Fender1325]

OP -

If you dont have an angle grinder with a cutting disc, flap disc (I reccomend 40 grit), and a grind disc get yourself hooked up with that. You'll want a 4.5" or 5" angle grinder with atleast 7 amps. Dewalt, makita, milwaukee are all pretty close.

When loading wire into your machine if you let go of the spool it will quickly unravel and make a squirrels nest - this ***** and you dont want to do that. Ensure your metal roller is aligned for the correct wire type and thickness. You'll need two hands to hold the spool so it doesnt unravel and one to guide your wire into the feeder and clamp it down. Keep holding the spool until you screw down the nut that holds it in place. Not tightly, just enough to keep it from wanting to unravel.

As for the wife needing stands and what not, give yourself several months atleast of practicing different material gauges before you do something structural, load bearing, or especially if someone is going to stand on it.

Welding can be deceptive - what looks strong sometimes isn't, and what looks weak sometimes is strong. Material fit and prep is very important - really it will take up 80 percent of the time on your projects. Practice practice practice, and beat the **** out of what you practice on and see how it holds up. You will get the feel as you go.

Ive been welding only 1 year - but I've come a long way since then.

Some random tips I can send your way:

For your regulator - thread all hoses cleanly and tightly. Unscrew the valve counterclockwise until its loose almost. Turn your gas tank on all the way open. Your right gauge will fill up (thats like your gas tank total in a car). Then screw the valve closed until the left gauge comes up and starts reading around 23 CFH. When the machine is on and you squeeze the trigger holding it down that needle will drop. You want it to drop to about 20 CFH. Trim your excess wire about 1/4" or less off your tip. Once your machine settings are dialed in, you're all set to weld.

Your heat setting is your main setting, and your wire feed speed is like a fine tuner. When you have it right it will sizzle like bacon frying. You'll get used to it. If it goes pop pop pop try turning the heat up and/or the wire feed down just a touch. Experiment until you get it sizzling consistently.

I find I get best control when I guide the "gooseneck" of the gun with my left hand while squeezing the trigger with my right.

If you're doing sheet metal squeeze for 1 second and stop, then move over like an 1/8" and squeeze it again and stop. You only need a second or less of "rest" time between welds. You'll work your whole joint this way when it comes to sheet metal. This lowers heat, burn through, and warpage. Do this procedure for about an inch then work somewhere else on the piece doing the same for an inch. Keep working your way around the joints until its all complete.

Clean metal is important to good clean welds. You can weld through some junk, but you get a better burn when its clean. Keep that in mind. Flap disc on an angle grinder is good, wire brush helps as well.

You dont want to do long passes in general unless the material is heavy like an 1/8" thick or more. Even then you want to keep the passes down to a few inches at a time I'd say.

Some other tools that are lifesavers for me after F-ing about with angle grinders forever - HF electric sheet metal shears, and the red HF horizontal band saw. I HIGHLY reccomend these for your shop - even if you dont go with a HF brand.

protective eyewear, a good auto dim welding helmet and good gloves are imperative. Dont wear open toed shoes. If you weld a lot in a T-shirt - which I tend to do, you'll get sunburn on your arms if you weld a lot that day. Welding jackets are not necessary unless you're doing a lot or in a position where some molten metal will fall on you.

Hopefully this isnt too much info too quickly. All the advice I can think of for now. Now go out and F up some metal and learn!

 

[dmw16]

^ all very awesome information. Thanks a lot for taking the time (that goes for everyone)!

I've got a 2 grinders...a nice milwaukee and a cheapo HF backup. Building a race car from a 25 year old chassis takes some cutting sometimes...

In theory the welder should do some adjustment for me (the 141 has autoset) but I'd like to learn to tweak it right myself.

I'll check out those tools. Sadly I have a small garage that's dominated by aforementioned car. So no room for a bandsaw. However, I'll check out the electric sheers. Luckily I have a family member that works at Sunbelt and I get free rentals so I can get a portable chop saw for a week when required.

I won't jump into structural stuff. It was more of a joke anyway. I like buying tools and it's even better when they can help the wife out. Like when I bought a framing nail gun that ran on propellant and battery because she needed me to build sets

 

[Fender1325]

that bandsaw has a pretty small footprint. maybe 1 foot by 3 feet or something. Just FYI.

Keep in mind too that how fast you move is another variable. The same weld can be achieved in different rates of speed. Use your ear to really dial it in. Try skipping the autoset feature if thats possible so you can learn from the get go.

I dont know it all by any means but feel free to shoot me a PM if you get stuck.

 

[dmw16]

that bandsaw has a pretty small footprint. maybe 1 foot by 3 feet or something. Just FYI.

Keep in mind too that how fast you move is another variable. The same weld can be achieved in different rates of speed. Use your ear to really dial it in. Try skipping the autoset feature if thats possible so you can learn from the get go.

I dont know it all by any means but feel free to shoot me a PM if you get stuck.

That's a lot of real estate in a 1 car garage. But I'll see if there's room.

Thanks for the offer, you may be sorry once the questions start rolling in.

Oh and I did get a good face shield. Sprung for a Miller Digital Elite.

 

[jimgood]

When loading wire into your machine if you let go of the spool it will quickly unravel and make a squirrels nest - this ***** and you dont want to do that. Ensure your metal roller is aligned for the correct wire type and thickness. You'll need two hands to hold the spool so it doesnt unravel and one to guide your wire into the feeder and clamp it down. Keep holding the spool until you screw down the nut that holds it in place. Not tightly, just enough to keep it from wanting to unravel.

LOL, I got the squirrels nest the first time I mounted a roll!

My trick for that is to leave the paper on the roll, mount it and tighten the nut until there's resistance to the roll spinning. Then I carefully pull off the paper, pull the end of the wire out of its hole in the edge of the spool, pull a little out, cut the end so it's straight and feed it into the feed tube.

 

[Fender1325]

That's a lot of real estate in a 1 car garage. But I'll see if there's room.

Thanks for the offer, you may be sorry once the questions start rolling in.

Oh and I did get a good face shield. Sprung for a Miller Digital Elite.

Sweet I still use my HF auto darkening one.....was something like $50 but has worked great for me.

No worries on the questions man I'm happy to share whatever knowledge I can. Problems you'll have are usually surprisingly simple to fix with some tweaks.

One more tip - clamp ground onto clean unpainted metal - a good ground is imperative. If you cant clamp onto anything laying the ground clamp on bare metal works as well. I still sometimes as I'm working through fitment of a project forget to clamp the ground on only to shoot wire a couple inches out and get no zap happenin. "**** I'm an idiot". Clip excess wire, close mask AND DO IT AGAIN!!!......sometimes my mind is off in another land when welding.

 

[dmw16]

Sweet I still use my HF auto darkening one.....was something like $50 but has worked great for me.

No worries on the questions man I'm happy to share whatever knowledge I can. Problems you'll have are usually surprisingly simple to fix with some tweaks.

One more tip - clamp ground onto clean unpainted metal - a good ground is imperative. If you cant clamp onto anything laying the ground clamp on bare metal works as well. I still sometimes as I'm working through fitment of a project forget to clamp the ground on only to shoot wire a couple inches out and get no zap happenin. "**** I'm an idiot". Clip excess wire, close mask AND DO IT AGAIN!!!......sometimes my mind is off in another land when welding.

The mask was a splurge, but I figured the larger viewing area would help the learning process....right?

Thanks for the tip on the ground. I was looking at one of those large magnets you stick on to create a ground post to clamp to.

 

[404]

100 percent CO2 makes a less pretty weld, but CO2 is stored in the tank as a liquid. 25/75 is stored as a gas at about 2500 Psi. The CO2 will last much much much longer, (I would guess by a factor of 100, but have not done the math) so cost of welding will be lower with pure CO2, not a mix.

 

[dmw16]

100 percent CO2 makes a less pretty weld, but CO2 is stored in the tank as a liquid. 25/75 is stored as a gas at about 2500 Psi. The CO2 will last much much much longer, (I would guess by a factor of 100, but have not done the math) so cost of welding will be lower with pure CO2, not a mix.

I think the conversion of liquid to gas is 22.7x. Sticks in my head from high school. But point taken. I'll price it out.

What does a small bottle of 75/25 run? I don't have room in my little car to transport a big bottle.

 

[kkroger]

a 20CF bottle is about $35 to fill (Exchange) to buy the bottle is about 80 or something, Get an HF bottle if you do this and since it is exchange anyway it won't matter... as long as your test date is good. Remember that... I keep one of these with 100% Argon and one with 75/25%.... C25
a 40CF Bottle is about $45 to fill (Exchange) Again probably between 100 and 200 to buy.. No lesser to get... Unfortunately... I keep one of these with 100% Argon and one with 75/25 as well...
an 80CF Bottle is about 55 or 60... (Exchange) This one is about 3' High and about $250 to buy... All but the HF bottle will come filled... I keep one of these with 100% and one wih 75/25 as well, usually on the cart with the welders, I use the 20s for mobile if I have to take the welder to the job, they are just smaller... the 40s are my backups just in the event I run out at some point.. for the BIG shop or "Work" I use big bottles...

 

[404]

I don't have room in my little car to transport a big bottle.

I put the bottle in the car leaning on the passengers front seat. I recline the seat back all the way, put base of bottle into foot well. Put on the seat belt, cover it with a sheet or blanket of a color similar to the interior of the car. The last thing we need these days is some busy body seeing the bottle in the car and calling the cops.

In summer I will drive with the windows open, in winter the climate control is on fresh air, not recirculate, fan on. Drive straight home.

 

[dmw16]

I put the bottle in the car leaning on the passengers front seat. I recline the seat back all the way, put base of bottle into foot well. Put on the seat belt, cover it with a sheet or blanket of a color similar to the interior of the car. The last thing we need these days is some busy body seeing the bottle in the car and calling the cops.

In summer I will drive with the windows open, in winter the climate control is on fresh air, not recirculate, fan on. Drive straight home.

Forgot to mention it's a little hatchback with a giant baby seat in the back.

 

[bulletpruf]

Great thread. How bout some pics and details on the "race car" you're working on?

 

[ishiboo]

Thanks for the suggestions. The 75/25 is what they call Stargon, right? Just trying to get the lingo

I had figured on going to Home Depot and getting the parts needed to build a beefy extension cord. Either 6 or 8 gauge to be covered even if that's overkill.

Stargon is a proprietary name for one of Praxair's gasses, which includes oxygen. Order exactly what you want and forget about their stupid names.

A 6 or 8 gauge extension cord will be a needless pain in the ***. 12ga is what you want and you will be able to terminate it in the male/female ends without trouble.

 

[dmw16]

Great thread. How bout some pics and details on the "race car" you're working on?

I'll get some posted this weekend.

It's a 1988 BMW 325. It has a newer M50 inline 6. This winter it will get M3 cams, headers, bigger fuel injectors, etc. Full 6 point cage, data, etc.

 

[ovrrdrive]

I started with a 40cu bottle of C25 and when it ran out I traded it up to an 80cu bottle to make it last longer. They gave me 100% credit for the smaller bottle towards the bigger one and by breaking it up it lightened the load on my wallet a little. There's so much you need to buy when you first start doing it every little bit helps. What's funny is that refills for the 80cu are actually less than the 40cu at my local Airgas. I think it was $30 something for the 40 and the 80 is only like $27. The 80cu is a good size for my cart and seems to last me long enough. Sorry I don't remember what the bottles cost but I do know the 80 was about a hundred bucks more than the 40.

Go to the Lincoln Welding Foundation and order a few boxes of welding coupons. They have a metal project kit that has some 1/4" and some 1/8" cold rolled steel coupons in it that are great for practicing. You get a break for the more your order and you save a little on shipping too. I think I got 5 kits when I ordered and it came to about 50 bucks including shipping. There's no mill scale on it and you can weld on it right out of the box. I still have about half of it out in the garage. It's been good for the welder and also good to play with on the plasma cutter I bought. See if this link works: http://www.jflfoundation.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=METAL

I also have the HF table and it's been well worth the money. I cut a little notch on the backside so the working clamp would clamp flat to it to make sure I got a good ground. I also have a little wad of copper from some old power cable I put under the clamp to maximize the ground too. That's a tip I got from Jody ala Welding Tips and Tricks on youtube which leads me to my next tip. Watch his series on MIG basics and you'll learn everything from grounding to how to set tension and much more. Here's a link to the first video in the series. He's great and his videos are very informative.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig-welding-basics.html

I also have one of the HF blankets too. Just remember it is fire resistant but not burn proof. I threw over my legs the first time I used it and the sparks burned right through it. Now I throw it on the floor to keep it from getting burn spots all over it. It's handy to have but not what I thought it was. lol

Never, ever use brake cleaner to clean parts before you weld. It can kill you. Do a search to learn more. Just don't do it.


I'll post again when I think of more.