First welder: MIG or multi-process?

[ggerickson]

It's time to work up the end of year list to finish spending my "shop allowance" for the year and am finally going to add a welder to the toybox.

I've never done any welding before; this will be for me to self-teach and do some basic stuff around the shop (mower / snowblower repair, vehicle exhausts, workbenches & shelving, maybe a driveway gate in a few years if I get ambitious).

The initial plan had been just a basic MIG and possibly a plasma cutter (if I could squeak it in).

But the more I go digging, it looks like some of the newer multi-process inverter units that include stick & TIG might have features that could make life easier for a new / infrequent welder like the automatic arc control and presets for specific metal types / thicknesses. Not to mention just having the option of playing with stick or TIG (albeit usually limited on these machines) if I wanted to experiment in the future.

Shop space isn't unlimited, so if there are arguments for having more than just MIG capability, I'm more inclined to go multi-process up front rather than have to acquire additional machines down the road.

I'm specifically not mentioning brands at the moment since I don't want to devolve into the typical "model X is better than model Y."

This is more a philosophical question looking for some guidance to help narrow down what I should capabilities I should be comparing rather than getting caught in analysis paralysis and missing the end of year sales.

Thanks!

 

[firebirdparts]

The basic mig sure is easy to use, and you can weld up to about 1/4". Stick is extremely cheap to buy, so really, the big question about spending real money for other processes has to do with whether you want to learn to tig. For me, I just have never had a reason to. So I would say a mig. Ideal for lawn mower and car repairs.

 

[ggerickson]

Whether I might want to learn TIG and whether I have time to learn TIG anytime in the next 15 years are two entirely different questions!

I do have future projects involving stainless steel for the home brewery that might be TIG-worthy; but I can already do those with silver solder, so that's not a make or break the decision for me.

 

[c4cruiser]

Do you have suitable electrical power in your shop? Some entry-level MIG welders only need 120v and others will need 240v. You should have the proper outlet near where you will be welding.

MIG welding can be done without C25 gas but most units will have hookups for using gas. When I bought my Lincoln ProMig140, I started out without getting a bottle, but after a few months of learning and practice, I decided to go with C25 and bought a bottle at my local AirGas store. The welder came with the parts necessary to use gas and because it was a 120v unit, I already had a couple of 120v/20 circuits in my garage.

You should figure out what type of unit or units you want to start with and then get the necessary electrical power and outlets installed.

There are a number of welding websites that have some good tutorials for the various processes. A Google search should turn up some good videos. The major welding equipment brands like Lincoln, Miller, Hobart and others will also have some good information.

One thing I did when starting to learn welding was to drop by a local fab shop and asked for scrap pieces. I got a good 50 lbs of various pieces for free! Then I started to weld stuff together, Was pretty good practice and eventually I got to where I could make some decent welds.

 

[cj7jeep81]

What's your budget? If I had the option between a decent mig, and a cheap all in one, I'd go mig for sure. And nothing says you can't buy another down the road

I currently have 4 welders in my shop. My old Hobart 140, a Hobart 225 ac/dc welder, a 850 pound Miller tig/stick welder, and a Millermatic 200 (older mig). I bought them in that order.

The little Hobart mig was always used with flux core, and while it worked, I was never all that happy with it. I don't do much body work, so mostly use 1/8" and up steel. Just too underpowered.

The 225 stick welder saw a good bit of use with heavy stuff, and mostly replaced the Hobart. Was pretty happy with it, but stick is slow, and messy.

Then got the big Miller tig/stick. I've played with tig a little, and used the stick welder on it a decent bit. Much better stick welder than my smaller one, and plan to learn more Tig eventually.

However, since getting the Millermatic 200, I really haven't touched any of the others (and I've ran through about 20 pounds of wire through it). It welds so much nicer than the others, nearly no cleanup, plenty of power.

So in a long about way, I'd say if the budget is tighter, I'd be looking at a 240v Mig machine, unless you have enough money to get a good mutli-process. I'd imagine most of your welding will be mig, and it would **** to spend more money and compromise performance/quality (ie, mediocre mig welder that you rarely/never use as tig/stick).

 

[Showkey]

First welder needs a oxyacetylene torch........for heating rusted bolts, gas welding, brazing and general cutting etc.

Learning ........Gas welding before TIG makes the person better welder.

I have stick I have not used in years.......MIG or gas. Someday TIG but can’t justify the cost vs use.

 

[cj7jeep81]

Also, I wouldn't worry about the advanced features. Go to YouTube, and check out Welding Tips and Tricks. Amazing videos that will teach you a ton. From watching his stuff, it seems that a lot of those features can be helpful in very specific situations (not standard/normal every day welding), and my guess is unless you are really good, you'll have a hard time telling the difference. Also keep in mind most multi-process welders that do TIG are DC only, so no aluminium welding, unless you spend the big bucks on a machine.

 

[ggerickson]

c4cruiser --

On the power front, the shop is currently serviced by a 60A feed with open circuit just waiting for me to install conduit and a plug. I do intend to up that in future when the house wiring gets reworked; so no concerns there.

Good thought on the source for cheap scrap for practicing on. There's a fair bit of industrial work in my next closest town, so I'll have to try hitting them up.

cj7jeep81 --

The budget question is fair, even though I was hoping to stay away from pigeon-holeing the conversation if I said I only had $** amount to spend.

My wife is of the understanding sort because she knows I grew up with the mentality of "don't pay anybody to do what you can do yourself" and supports the tool purchases because in the end, she reaps the benefits.

For the sake of this conversation, let's say the budget is strong enough to encompass any of the hobbiest multi-process machines (PowerMIG 210MP, Multimatic 215, PowerMTS 211Si, Rebel EMP 215ic) if that's the direction I elect to go. Which would easily cover any of the MIG-only options as well.

 

[GrayFlattop]

My first thought would be to recommend taking a welding class at a local community college or have an experienced welder spend a half a day with you to lay a good foundation -and do that first.

We learned with a torch first then on to stick. If you learn these, then tig will come naturally. IMO it’s all about managing the puddle and getting the proper penetration. Once you master that, welding vertically and overhead come next.

Now I have to be realistic and think if you are only going to use it from time to time a mig is fine - if you practice enough to get good at it. I’ve seen an awful lot of crappy welding with any method, but you can do more crappy welding faster with mig.

Sadly, most high schools have abandoned their vocational and welding programs. That’s where I learned the foundation a million years ago. Hell, our teacher even made us weld aluminum using an oxy-acetylene torch which is crazy difficult.

The suggestion above to practice a lot with scrap metal is a good one. Make welds then try to break them apart.

If your objective is to make great looking, solid welds in stainless, I’d vote tig - only because I’ve spent more time with it and the level of control it affords is fantastic.

 

[GrayFlattop]

First welder needs a oxyacetylene torch........for heating rusted bolts, gas welding, brazing and general cutting etc.

Learning ........Gas welding before TIG makes the person better welder.

Absolute truth.

 

[maxpower_hd]

My first welder was a used Craftsman 120V POS MIG. It was honestly a waste of time. I know others who opted for brand new Miller or Lincoln 120V machines and they have upgraded to a 240V machine. My advice is buy once cry once and get a decent machine to start with.

I now have a Hobart Handler 187 which has done everything I've ever asked of it. I even am able to do aluminum with it without a spool gun. For what you describe you would do fine with a similar set up. I think I paid around $650 when it was the newest model at Tractor Supply. I think the current equivalent is the Handler 190. I have used Millermatic Autoset 210. It seems about the same to me. I also use a Lincoln 225 at work which is an older machine but will weld thicker steel. For smaller stuff my Hobart is just as good as any of them.

I have been welding for some time now and haven't needed a stick machine but one or two times to be honest. Most everything I do is MIG. If you think you might get into aluminum down the road you will want something that has a decent spool gun available for it. Something I cannot easily get for my 187. Although I think you can for the 190.

I also have a Hypertherm Powermax 30 that I use quite often. I like it a lot. Very nice machine. Not sure what they go for now but I paid around $1650 for it with a few consumables to go with it. They might be a little less now. Not sure.

So not knowing your budget I would probably start with a Miller 210. No need for the Millermatic. Although my cheaper Hobart is still fine. And I wouldn't change my mind on the plasma at all.

 

[ggerickson]

Showkey --

Good input, but I just don't see an OA rig in my future. In the PNW, I just don't have to deal with the rust to a point that I've ever needed anything more than a MAPP torch; and even that only a handful of times in 30 years.

The one friend of mine who does have a set of OA tanks he inherited only ever uses it as a "quickstart" for his shop woodstove and he works on way bigger things than I'll ever tackle.

I've also heard the same thing about stick welding (that learning stick first will lead to better MIG and TIG welding); which does push me a bit towards the multi-process stuff.

 

[MoonRise]

PM210MP and done.

Decent MIG machine, can run it at lower power on 120V or full power on 240V.

Also lets you do SMAW (aka stick) for those times when you need to do some thick(er) metal. (and NO, you can not just make multiple passes on 'thick' metal with short-circuit transfer GMAW or even FCAW-S while you CAN do so with SMAW because the arc and metal transfer are different between those three arc welding processes).

And you can do DC GTAW with the machine too.

You just missed out on a rebate promotion from Lincoln where they had the price of the PM210 down to $999 after rebate.

 

[ggerickson]

GrayFlattop --

I've looked into them. The closest CC option to me is a no-go because of their class schedule just won't align with my work / commute hours.

I will be making a trek into the couple of local welding shops in the next week and will ask if they offer anything or have somebody they could refer me to for a few Saturday morning "starter classes."

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO TIG is no good unless it'll do both AC and DC, aluminum, etc. I have done tons with my Hobart 140. It's a good 120V machine. If I were to buy another, it would be a MIG/TIG with aluminum capability. Autoset is nice, but manual set isn't too hard. Eastwood has some decent welders and the only complaint about their TIG machine seems to be the pedal. I do no know how to TIG but I really need to be able to weld aluminum and not with a spool gun if I can help it.

If you are not welding chassis items, roll cages and such a quality 120V MIG machine will do a bunch of stuff and do it well. If you REALLY want to do .125 steel and especially anything thicker, something like a Hobart 190A or the 210 (Miller 211) etc is called for.

One thing though - really, really think about what you want to do with a welder - then DO NOT buy less of a machine. Same like a lathe, mill, etc - buy an "entry level" tool and you will soon wish you'd gone in for a better unit. IMHO if you have to wait to get the $ to buy the machine, then wait. Otherwise you will buy twice. Guaranteed. The units I'm looking at are in the 1000~1500 range and I will do without rather than get a decent $800 class unit that does "almost everything".

 

[Old Man Roger]

The old adage ''buy the best you can afford'' runs true, but unless you plan on doing a good amount of tig welding, mig is probably the most practical. A stick welder is great for outdoor welding and heavy equipment welding, but most home owners don't need it. like mentioned above, if you want to be able to tig aluminum, you're gonna want a quality machine.

 

[GarageGuy89]

This question is a slippery slope, and it depends on material to be welded and budget.

If you plan do NEVER do aluminium - go MIG
If you EVER plan to do aluminum - go TIG (or multi process, but ac/dc multi process are $$$)

 

[PugetDude]

Miller 211.

Best 110/220 entry-level welder on the market, IMO.
I replaced a 110V Red Welder when I started building the '32; needed more penetration than I could get on 110V with the Lincoln running FCAW

Switching to MIG and the autoset feature made me a better welder overnight.

..and I use a lot fewer grinding wheels with MIG than with my old FCAW.

 

[Falcon67]

First welder needs a oxyacetylene torch........for heating rusted bolts, gas welding, brazing and general cutting etc.

Learning ........Gas welding before TIG makes the person better welder.

I have stick I have not used in years.......MIG or gas. Someday TIG but can’t justify the cost vs use.

I have heard such - need to get a regulator for my propane tanks and an oxy tank, get back on the torch deal. Used to be decent with one. Have a torch setup but need a proper reg.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

I have the Miller 215 and I am happy with it although I haven’t used it a ton since I bought it but I like the fact of being able to do Mig and stick welding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dr_clyde]

This is a hard question to answer without a budget. New or used? You can get so much more equipment used for a way better deal.

If you insist on new, then a Lincoln 210MP is a very versatile and useful welder for around $1500. With leads, cylinder, and cart you're all in for 2 grand. Now you're pretty set up for anything other than thin aluminum.

If you want to spend less than a grand, I would look for a Hobart mig in the 180 amp range. They're a good value.

If you have the coin, I'd get a Miller or ESAB AC/DC mulitprocess.

My first welder was a multi-process machine. I bought a Lincoln Invertec V300 PRO with an LN-7 wire feeder for $800 at an auction. I setup a valve torch and had scratch start DC tig, a nice mig, and a REALLY nice stick welder all in one machine.

My second welder was a Dynasty 200 DX. I have made more money with that Dynasty than any other piece of equipment I own.

As my business grew I then bought other, more advanced or more powerful machines.

 

[MrSurly]

I have an ESAB Fabricator 252i, a multiprocess that will do it all *except* AC for tig welding aluminum. I love it, it's a learning thing, a hobby thing for me. I will do everything I need to do and is waaaay more capable than I am. Again, it's a budget question. This is a pricey machine and there are many less expensive, but I would strongly favor a multi-process, especially if you don't have other machines around.
I got this one because I want to learn to TIG and I plan to use the machine for a car restoration project. For that job I will use all three processes as needed and I only have one machine taking up room. If you buy pretty much ANY 120V machine, you WILL be buying a 240V machine later. Buy that one first.

 

[ggerickson]

First of all, I will say you guys are being pretty easy on the lurker coming out of the shadows! I expected a lot more grief for having 7+ years between registering and my first post.

Some broad answers since I can't keep up with the individual ones . . . . .

* on the aluminum front: I honestly can't think of any aluminum welding I'd ever possibly need that couldn't be handled with a decent spoolgun (or hiring somebody for the one-off job)

* on the power output front: I'm not going to open a production shop and I won't be working on heavy equipment or battleships. My intention was to stay within the dual-voltage 120/240 arena of machines. I have sufficient 240v power in my shop, but would like to retain the flexibility of 120v if I haul it over to the neighbors or need to run it off a generator to work elsewhere on the property

* on the "buy once, cry once" front: this is exactly the rule I was trying to follow; which is what prompted the question. I didn't want to shell out for a MIG-only machine as first intended only to find out later that having stick capability for learning / outdoor usage would have been nice or that having the automatic settings really would have made life nicer for the infrequent user

* on the new or used front: Unless I find a local shop that has a trade-in that's exactly what I want, I'm staying with new. The area I'm in has minimal equipment of this type available on the private used market, so I'm stuck. What gear I've acquired used over the years (compressor, drill press, mill) has had to be sourced by friends in the Seattle area and I end up making a 6-hour round trip to collect it

* on the budget front: I really was trying to keep this at a philosophical level on how to approach shopping based on people's experience rather than ending up with the conversation pigeon-holed because I'd stated a dollar figure up front. If it turns out the "right answer" is more than the shop fund has left for the year, I can negotiate that out with the family CFO based on house projects that came in under budget this year.

I just didn't want to put that up-front for fear of only getting answers along the line of:

"buy the $5000 nuclear-powered MIG/TIG/Stick/Glue/CheezWhiz unit from EverLincoMillTherm since it'll cover all the bases including tire rotation"

 

[ggerickson]

And I will say that responses like:

My first welder was a multi-process machine. I bought a Lincoln Invertec V300 PRO with an LN-7 wire feeder for $800 at an auction. I setup a valve torch and had scratch start DC tig, a nice mig, and a REALLY nice stick welder all in one machine.

and

I have an ESAB Fabricator 252i, a multiprocess that will do it all *except* AC for tig welding aluminum. I love it, it's a learning thing, a hobby thing for me. I will do everything I need to do and is waaaay more capable than I am. Again, it's a budget question. This is a pricey machine and there are many less expensive, but I would strongly favor a multi-process, especially if you don't have other machines around.

do start pushing me towards the multi-process units overall.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Had we known the $5000 nuclear-powered MIG/TIG/Stick/Glue/CheezWhiz unit from EverLincoMillTherm was within your budget, we would have surely suggested it...lol P.S. I Highly recommend the whiz bang attachment.

 

[ggerickson]

Had we known the $5000 nuclear-powered MIG/TIG/Stick/Glue/CheezWhiz unit from EverLincoMillTherm was within your budget, we would have surely suggested it...lol

Just proving the fact that I have been around GJ a lot longer than my posting history would suggest!

 

[Blazinzuk]

My 2 cents

I really enjoy Tig welding. I typically use a mig machine, why? Well it's faster. If I was a pure hobbiest I would be almost exclusively Tig. But I would get a machine that does both AC/DC.

So I vote multiprocess machine without question

 

[sberry]

First of all, I will say you guys are being pretty easy on the lurker coming out of the shadows! I expected a lot more grief for having 7+ years between registering and my first post.

Some broad answers since I can't keep up with the individual ones . . . . .

* on the aluminum front: I honestly can't think of any aluminum welding I'd ever possibly need that couldn't be handled with a decent spoolgun (or hiring somebody for the one-off job)

* on the power output front: I'm not going to open a production shop and I won't be working on heavy equipment or battleships. My intention was to stay within the dual-voltage 120/240 arena of machines. I have sufficient 240v power in my shop, but would like to retain the flexibility of 120v if I haul it over to the neighbors or need to run it off a generator to work elsewhere on the property

* on the "buy once, cry once" front: this is exactly the rule I was trying to follow; which is what prompted the question. I didn't want to shell out for a MIG-only machine as first intended only to find out later that having stick capability for learning / outdoor usage would have been nice or that having the automatic settings really would have made life nicer for the infrequent user

* on the new or used front: Unless I find a local shop that has a trade-in that's exactly what I want, I'm staying with new. The area I'm in has minimal equipment of this type available on the private used market, so I'm stuck. What gear I've acquired used over the years (compressor, drill press, mill) has had to be sourced by friends in the Seattle area and I end up making a 6-hour round trip to collect it

* on the budget front: I really was trying to keep this at a philosophical level on how to approach shopping based on people's experience rather than ending up with the conversation pigeon-holed because I'd stated a dollar figure up front. If it turns out the "right answer" is more than the shop fund has left for the year, I can negotiate that out with the family CFO based on house projects that came in under budget this year.

I just didn't want to put that up-front for fear of only getting answers along the line of:

"buy the $5000 nuclear-powered MIG/TIG/Stick/Glue/CheezWhiz unit from EverLincoMillTherm since it'll cover all the bases including tire rotation"

This is good, very accurate perspective which is a weird way of saying it. I can get along with a simple spooly, aluminum is rare for the non specialist.

 

[TractorJeff]

You can Mig outdoors unless it too windy. Just block the breeze with your body!
As far as running it on a Generator to do a "field repair" then use Flux-Core as you will get better penetration. No sense and going back to fix it a second time!
Do I have a Multi Process Inverter machine? No, I have 2 engine drives, 3 stick machines, 2 migs and scratch tig setup.

 

[Hdonly0]

I actually use stick the most. I have tractors and alot of what I do is thick steel. I have aquired pieces of older equipment fairly cheap over the years. It all works. What you need is totally dependent on what you need to do.]

 

[NUTTSGT]

Personally, I'd advise you to simply buy a decent (Red/Blue/Tan) 240V machine with gas based on the fact that you have never welded before.

If you find that you want to weld more in the line of thicker rustier metal, search CL and find yourself an older Lincoln tombstone welder. Unless they have been left outside for years or been flooded, they things will virtually last forever and probably pick one up for around $150 or less.

If you get a decent MIG unit with a spool gun, it should cover what you need done like you mention above. One other thing I'll suggest you buy is a decent auto-darkening helmet. It'll make learning to weld alot easier.




EDIT: Heck for the price, maybe do some investigating on this one.

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=284&acctid=2158

 

[matt_i]

I couldn't live without tig. The ability to control heat and weld detailed stuff without stomping it with a ball of molten metal (relatively speaking) has been ever so useful. And no filing off boogers or chipping slag.

Mig is a good way to get started welding because its fast to learn, not as much hand-eye coordination.

But then things seem to diverge into high confidence structural things that need stick or little detailed things that need tig with not many square tube-frames in the middle.

 

[sberry]

I use sticks some. I use t for field but a Maxstar has about killed the engine drives. I use a little stick outside in good weather, pit stop type jobs on the apron.

 

[sberry]

I couldn't live without tig. The ability to control heat and weld detailed stuff without stomping it with a ball of molten metal (relatively speaking) has been ever so useful. And no filing off boogers or chipping slag.

Mig is a good way to get started welding because its fast to learn, not as much hand-eye coordination.

But then things seem to diverge into high confidence structural things that need stick or little detailed things that need tig with not many square tube-frames in the middle.

I haven't fired up a tig in 15 years, only use sticks for convenience and because I can. I make hundreds, thousands of structural welds with wire. So much faster, cleaner and solid wire is dam near as good as 7018. I weld a bb on the end of a wire the other day and repair a tank foil thin too. I can make do without the rest of it for the most part but would be absolutely stalled without a wire feed.
I say this from the point of a career welder who's expertise is in stick welding and some tig. I gottem all, can usem all and do the work with mig.

 

[Jackfre]

I think you will be happy with a Miller 211. As you point out, are you really going to take the time to learn how to tig? It is one thing to become proficient. It is another to maintain proficiency. Case in point: there was a time I could make any welding test on any process. I loved tig and there are a few nukes I worked on back in those days. I was a hand. Years later I decided I should get back into it on a hobby basis. Life is a humbling experience. I bought a new Miller Synchrowave. Between my eyes, the torch, the rod, the heat, the position I was so far behind, well, suffice to say that with my background I could have pulled it together, but net/net, I knew I was not going to put the time into it. I did a lot of stick with that machine and that I picked up in a hurry. I have the pre-inverter 211. It is an excellent machine for the stuff I do around the place and for friends who bring their projects up. Get as good a mig machine as you can afford and get good at it. It is much easier to learn as you have a clean puddle to see...and eventually control Never having done any welding, cut yourself some slack and get good at one process. You will have plenty to do getting to that point.

 

[sberry]

Good post, good advice.

 

[jetlag]

Avoid the multi process machines that are targeted to hobbyists. Better to spend your money on a machine that is very good at one process than on one that is mediocre at two. Decide which process you want to learn, and buy the best welder you can afford.

My only welder for several years was an ac/dc tig welder, because it handled virtually everything I needed to weld, and I only needed to tool up for one process. However, today, if I could only have one welder, it would be my Miller 252 mig.

 

[f121]

I went through this process when I was buying my first mig (after years of borrowing them), my welding instructor buddy suggested that rather than buying a expensive clever multiprocess machine, I should buy a good mig and a good mask. I tried a speedglass and it blew away the old mask I was using, suddenly I could see what I was welding!

The other factor is right now I don't have time to learn and practice tig, for the odd occasion I need some ally welding there are plenty of good shops around that like cash jobs.

Three years on, my 180A inverter mig is working brilliantly, welded everything from body panels to rock sliders, plus it's small and light enough to lift in the back of my truck.

 

[steel 35]

PM210MP and done.(

I take notice when this guy posts ^

But he posted this too late

Ordered a Hobart Handler 210MVP Last month for a relative that wanted me to help him choose a new welder.
My preference! Mig / Spoolgun; Have the stick / tig, collecting dust & very capable but I prefer the get it done mode

 

[CraigStu]

For some reason I have never had any luck w/ Mig. Probably my fault. I have a cheap Lincoln stick welder from home depot. I use it for trailer type stuff. But I also have a hobby grade Miller Tig unit that I do 99% of my welding with. If you want to do really nice welds Tig is the way to go. I find Tig to be the easiest to use. One additional advantage of Tig is virtually no mess, no splatter. I have welded things in the fully carpeted and upholstered interior of a car.