First Williams USA experience

[SuitorsGarage]

A few weeks ago I picked up a set of Williams 1/2" drive twelve point sockets that was missing 3 sockets. They came from an estate sale and I bought them from a second hand tool shop that I frequent. All the sockets are in perfect condition and I was just gonna purchase the three missing sockets from one of my vendors that sells Williams (Lawson Products).
Today I had to torque a head on a John Deere 6125. The specs were 120 ft lbs, wait five minutes, 120 ft lbs again, 90 degrees, 90 degrees again. After the first 90 degrees I decided to use 3/4" drive but couldn't put my hands on anything but a cheap 3/4" in 3/4 drive. As soon as I started putting some weiney on that I realized that particular socket needed to go into the scrap bin. I needed thin wall and decided to use one of the Williams 1/2" drive with an adapter. On the first bolt the Williams socket broke. I finished the first bolt and the remainder of the job with a craftsman china socket.

That was the first bolt I turned with that socket set. I was pretty disappointed.

 

[M6erfan]

Unfortunately buying used you have no idea how the tools were cared for, or abused, in the past. Good news is Willams might warranty it...

 

[woody 73]

Some time back a few years ago I ran into a rather odd looking set that was off color, now mind you I don't see color very well. So I started asking all kinds of questions and I would get the "I don't know" type looks ; not one to walk away from a killer deal on a set of tools by chance I asked did you ever have some kind of house/garage/car fire and they said they did (hence the odd color of the set).

That one I walked away asap, and you can be sure I thanked them for their honest answer. You never know how that set of tools were used or abused, just saying don't give up on a good name in the tool industry just because you got some duds.

 

[PFSard]

Sorry to hear about your negative experience. I wouldn't condemn Williams because of one instance. Or any one/thing else for that matter.

 

[KnurledNut]

Any chance this socket is pre-Snap-on?

 

[XxToolAholicxX]

Sorry about your experience.. But Williams USA is a great product.. Many swear on this site that it is same as Snap-On ...

 

[Adam.C]

You had basically a 180 degree angle on top of 120ftlbs. And you chose a 12pt socket you got from an estate sale. How long was the ratchet/cheater bar?

I had a 180 degree turn on top of something like that on a VW axle. I think I exceeded the capability of my snap on torque wrench (350ftlbs?)

Why didn't you use the 3/4 drive? Or were the craftsman sockets 3/4 drive?

180 degree angle is a lot of torque

 

[gdocktor3]

It happens to every brand once in a while. I wouldn't write off Williams over that one instance. Today you could use that same Cman socket on something else and break that one too.

 

[SuitorsGarage]

You had basically a 180 degree angle on top of 120ftlbs. And you chose a 12pt socket you got from an estate sale. How long was the ratchet/cheater bar?

I chose a 12 point socket because I had no other options for clearance issues. I chose the williams socket over the craftsman socket. The breaker bar/cheater pipe totaled about 36"

I had a 180 degree turn on top of something like that on a VW axle. I think I exceeded the capability of my snap on torque wrench (350ftlbs?)

I didn't use my tech angle for that reason

Why didn't you use the 3/4 drive? Or were the craftsman sockets 3/4 drive?

Clearance issue again. The only 3/4 drive socket that would fit was a loose fitting cheapo.

180 degree angle is a lot of torque

This isn't something new to me.


I agree with others about not writing off williams. I wasn't bashing them. I was just surprised and disappointed that the socket broke. I wouldn't warranty it because of where I bought it from. If I bought it new then I would. I'm not going to jump right on buying 4 new sockets for that set though until I use them some more.

 

[cheechi]

Any chance this socket is pre-Snap-on?

I had plenty of Pre-Snap-On Williams and they were awesome sockets. Any Williams Kobalt you find will be pre-Snap-On, as that's the reason Kobalt had to change suppliers.

 

[Adam.C]

I chose a 12 point socket because I had no other options for clearance issues. I chose the williams socket over the craftsman socket. The breaker bar/cheater pipe totaled about 36"


I didn't use my tech angle for that reason


Clearance issue again. The only 3/4 drive socket that would fit was a loose fitting cheapo.


This isn't something new to me.


I agree with others about not writing off williams. I wasn't bashing them. I was just surprised and disappointed that the socket broke. I wouldn't warranty it because of where I bought it from. If I bought it new then I would. I'm not going to jump right on buying 4 new sockets for that set though until I use them some more.

If I sold you that tool, I wouldn't warranty it. You were doing the wrong thing. If you have a lot of experience, you shouldn't have been surprised or disappointed. In the times when I've been stupid enough to slip a 3' cheater bar on 1/2" drive, I've fully expected something was going to break.

The other unsettling thing about this story is the requirement to put that much torque on a bolt with little head clearance and with 3/4" bolt head. That's **** engineering. Or maybe your spec was wrong.

 

[JDon99]

Really surprised the cman held up. Do you have a pic of said socket? I'm curious to see what era it is.

 

[Dozerhand]

Were these 1/2" bolts?

 

[SuitorsGarage]

I should have said that I was surprised when the higher grade socket broke and the lesser grade socket held up. Should have also said that I was disappointed that I broke the williams socket before I got to enjoy using the set.

 

[RedneckWelder]

If I sold you that tool, I wouldn't warranty it. You were doing the wrong thing. If you have a lot of experience, you shouldn't have been surprised or disappointed. In the times when I've been stupid enough to slip a 3' cheater bar on 1/2" drive, I've fully expected something was going to break.

The other unsettling thing about this story is the requirement to put that much torque on a bolt with little head clearance and with 3/4" bolt head. That's **** engineering. Or maybe your spec was wrong.

The company you always champion sells a 36" breaker bar in 1/2" drive (and it's excellent)

I use my Williams 1/2 drive sockets for high torque stuff all the time...and haven't broken any yet. I use 3/4 drive where possible of course but clearance issues preclude that sometimes

 

[Adam.C]

The company you always champion sells a 36" breaker bar in 1/2" drive (and it's excellent)

I use my Williams 1/2 drive sockets for high torque stuff all the time...and haven't broken any yet. I use 3/4 drive where possible of course but clearance issues preclude that sometimes

Long breakers and cheater bars provide brawn, but offer nothing for brains. If you put a small socket on any breaker, you have to assume you will break something. Only experience can tell you when you are pulling too hard. Most ratchets are designed at a length that makes it very uncomfortable to pull so hard that you will break stuff. There are notable exceptions like TLL72.

I'm not picking on the OP. He probably had a defective socket. But too often on GJ, broke, inexperienced guys wade into tool review territory. They use the wrong tools for the job, use them in the wrong way, then complain when they break. That's not a tool review. That's not instructive or helpful. Just trying to make the point that you have to ask these questions. I think this is a good discussion to have and I thank the OP, who I suspect is a very experienced mechanic, for raising it.

 

[cheechi]

I probably have something misremembered then Jeremy. I know there is something about Snap-On and Williams and Snap-On Industrial Brands doing something different, that brought about the change it wasn't as simple as Lowe's changing suppliers.

I had a full set, essentially everything Kobalt made in chrome, and full 1/2 impacts that I bought in those early days when I was still in high school and the deals were killer in those first few months to a year for sure. I had probably less than $300 which was a lot for a high school job, I worked in the same parking lot as Lowe's but across the street was a video game store. At the time I was tooling up to go into A&P after high school. Unfortunately all that stuff was stolen since. Never loved how wide the wrench handles were but otherwise some of the best stuff I ever had.

 

[SuitorsGarage]

Adam.C I didn't think that you were picking on me. I was just defending myself some so I didn't seem like a hack with no experience holding chrome. I don't proclaim to be king wrench slinger either. Just someone who has to get the job done.

Now that I have mentioned that, I should at least tell you guys what I do. I'm the shop foreman for the Mount Washington Cog Railway. We design, build, and maintain all of our equipment on site. It is a very unique place to work with very skilled people.

I did a quick search and found a short video that shows both the trains and where they go.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yu4tPtF8GZ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[WittHay]

i assume the OP is referring to 12 point bolts which are used in hi-torque applications with clearance issues. A 3/4" 12 point bolt usually requires a 3/4" 12-point socket.

I find that the only 12-point sockets that stand up are Snap-on. The socket walls are a little bit thicker than other brands. The Snap-on 36" 1/2" drive breaker bar works great on these bolts.

 

[T45]

I should have said that I was surprised when the higher grade socket broke and the lesser grade socket held up. Should have also said that I was disappointed that I broke the williams socket before I got to enjoy using the set.

You shouldn't really be suprised by this.

First off, if you are using a 3 foot cheater pipe...

Second, 180 angle on 120ft pounds...

Third, 12 point socket...

Fourth, vintage tools of unknown work history...

Fifth, williams is not snap on... (see: fourth point--)

Sixth, you are in heavy industry....not turning small stuff...its riskier.

There's some science behind this; but its also probably a case of bad luck. Don't sweat it and move on. You're now missing 4 sockets from that set, tho which seems like alot.

Maybe just buy a new wiliams or proto set and take this as a learning experience? Hopefully the budget was n't decimated by this unlucky used purchase.

 

[hscai]

You shouldn't really be suprised by this.

First off, if you are using a 3 foot cheater pipe...

Second, 180 angle on 120ft pounds...

Third, 12 point socket...

Fourth, vintage tools of unknown work history...

Fifth, williams is not snap on... (see: fourth point--)

Sixth, you are in heavy industry....not turning small stuff...its riskier.

There's some science behind this; but its also probably a case of bad luck. Don't sweat it and move on. You're now missing 4 sockets from that set, tho which seems like alot.

Maybe just buy a new wiliams or proto set and take this as a learning experience? Hopefully the budget was n't decimated by this unlucky used purchase.

I think you nailed it... I bought some new 3/8" US-made Williams ratchets/sockets/extensions and they worked great every time.

The only gripe I had with Williams is that their finish isn't perfect, even when new. But who cares? It's gonna be used!

 

[SuitorsGarage]

Maybe just buy a new wiliams or proto set and take this as a learning experience? Hopefully the budget was n't decimated by this unlucky used purchase.

I didn't really need these sockets. It was more of a wanted these sockets for myself. I bought the small tool lot for the extensions really. The sockets where going to replace my SK set in my truck. When I broke the socket it was more of a "oh......damn " moment. I wasn't pissed.

The budget definately wasn't decimated. Spent $20.00
13 williams sockets, 2 duplicates I put in home sets.
10" williams 1/2" extension, for the truck.
10" williams 1/2" extension, for one of the work boxes.
6" williams 1/2" extension, for one of the work boxes.
10" williams adjustable, for the truck.
1/2" williams flex nice and tight, for my box at work.
1/2" craftsman =v= breaker bar, for my son.
6" craftsman =v= 1/2" extension, for my son.
1/2" craftsman =v= ratchet, for my son.
10 or so craftsman =v= 1/2" sockets, for the duplicates at work.

 

[WittHay]

You got a good haul there for 20 bucks.

i had the same feeling when we broke 13/16" and 7/8" Proto impact sockets. Its Proto made in the USA. It shouldn't break.

 

[mikebaker1129]

I had plenty of Pre-Snap-On Williams and they were awesome sockets. Any Williams Kobalt you find will be pre-Snap-On, as that's the reason Kobalt had to change suppliers.

No, Kobalt by Williams was during the Snap On era and the JH Williams a Snap On tool company was a clever marketing move. Lowes clearly took advantage of the Snap On brand with the Kobalt line and they are very well made tools.