Fishing new wires to existing panel

[DBordello]

I am looking to add a new circuit to my existing panel. I have run the cable to the attic above the panel. In the attic, there are a series of ~3/4" holes, that are already pretty well occupied. In the panel, there are a few punchouts, that are again, pretty well occupied. The panel is in an exterior (insulated) wall.

What is the best way to fish from the attic to the panel? I feel like simply running a fish tape is going to be a frustrating effort, trying to catch one of the small holes.

One idea is to remove one of the existing wires, and pull it with a string. However, that seems like a lot of work.

Any better ideas?

 

[rockwithjason]

choose a knock out you want, push a piece of fish tape with a hook on the end up into the wall. push another piece down from the top and spin it to catch the other and then pull thru. another way is to use jack chain and a magnet to guide it.

 

[Ilikeike]

The existing wires could also be stapled in the wall.
Fishtape
Or get one of those fiberglass fish rods ,they're about 6' long I always see them in the electric isle at Home Depot. I've Been meaning to try on myself since I'm always pulling more camera , audio or some other wires in my house.
And I always leave a pull string in for next time.

 

[sselander]

I have used this one before with success.
For infrequent use, it is fine

3/16 in. x 33 Ft. Fiberglass Wire Running Kit $9.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-inch-x-33-ft-fiberglass-wire-running-kit-65326.html

 

[larry4406]

On either side of the panel are likely studs. Using a straight edge, slit the drywall from the top corners of the panel (offset to center of studs) all the way to the ceiling and along the ceiling. Remove drywall piece and install your wire. Reinstall the drywall piece with screws in the corner, patch if you like.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Depending on how far it is from from top of panel to ceiling you could just cut a strip about 3/4" across the drywall directly above top of panel to expose that area.
Then feed your fishtape down inside the wall past the insulation to top of panel and tie another piece of wire on it to pull up to the attic,then pull the wire down the wall .
Then just figure out which knockout you want to use and feed it through with a clamp.

 

[chops101]

After fighting fish tape and wasting a lot of time, I broke down a year ago and bought the glow-in-the-dark fiberglass rods that screw together (15').
Best money I've spent in a long time.

 

[The Cobbler]

fishing is an art . measure, measure measure. cut a small section above your panel ( behind the cover plate so it won't show after) fish your wire down from the attic and guide it into the knockout using the slot you cut above the panel . after you're totally frustrated, carefully cut out a larger section of drywall before you take your hammer to the wall.

 

[sberry]

You know, this is something that can be done but since you own this do it anyway you want. Personally would follow the above advice to some extent and you could patch or make a cover and put a hole in big enough to work thru. Can put a proper connector of most types on, can reach in and drill to the attic if needed or find a hole.
This access should have been a code reguirement. I got one to go still a but hole I am going to completely revamp.

 

[sberry]

I went to one the other day,, 100A main breaker panel in the garage, 20 spaces, 1 15 or 20A circuit and drywall finish beautiful top to bottom.

 

[sberry]

I like the reminder of some of these, cutting 3/4 across the top of the panel is a good one. Super speed trick and could hide it with the cover.
If I had to face this regular a glow tape would be good.

 

[DBordello]

Alright, thank you everybody for the excellent advice. I think I have synthesized it all together to a solid plan.

1. Get Glow Fish Rod - Of course, I have very limited working space in the attic, since I am at the edge of the house. I hope I can feed this through an existing (or try to drill) hole.
2. Cut 3/4" across the top of the panel. I am hoping that I can hide this with the cover. Catch the fish rod, and pull a new wire.

I will report back how it goes. Wish me luck, I was already feeling very defeated when I fished the wire to the outlet (other side of the garage). And there I had a nice cutout!

 

[n8n]

right angle drill really helps with this kind of work! I have a small one that I got from a buddy that used to do mobile stereo installations, you don't need a real big one for occasional use. Might take a 5/8" or 3/4" spade bit and cut it down too if you need the extra clearance to drill through the top plate.

 

[MikeYC]

Or you can remove panel cover, select knockout, shine flashlight at knockout, go in attic, drill hole and fish the wire itself down to the lit up hole. Very easy done a million times.

 

[larry4406]

If wall is stuffed full of insulation like the OP posted, shining a light through a knockout will be useless.

Cut the drywall, pull the wire through, staple it to the board that is likely there, 5 minute easy sand with adhesive drywall tape and done.

Drywall repairs are a piece of cake. He would be done by now.

 

[The Cobbler]

...

Drywall repairs are a piece of cake. He would be done by now.

for some, not for all!

 

[DBordello]

Sadly I have never done dry wall repair. And, I hope not to start on this project (unless necessary).

I am going to see if I can cut a hole that will be hidden by the panel cover.

 

[DBordello]

The wall is likely stuffed with insulation. Also, the roof is sloping down at this wall, so I can't really get my head close enough to look down the hole. Believe me, I have tried.

 

[larry4406]

DBordello

FYI here is what my main panel looks like after I removed all the drywall, furring out to 2x6 so I can add insulation. Also adding a sub panel which is a work in progress.

Seriously drywall repairs are not hard. You would have 3 cuts; 2 vertical and 1 horizontal at the ceiling. Done right it will come out as one piece.

Note the nailers above the panel that the wires are stapled to. These may give you grief fishing thru. In my case there are two wire nailers. Also note the studs flanking the panel. Cut the drywall neatly on these stud centers then across the ceiling. The drywall piece will come out. Wire, reinstall, and leave unfinished if you prefer.

Ignore the septic alarm. Panel is not my work. The joys of a used home.....

 

[DBordello]

Larry,

Yikes! I guess I have no idea what is behind there.

 

[n8n]

drywall repairs may not be hard, but it is something of an art to tape/mud a seam so it doesn't show.

Unfortunately I'm really good at spotting non-pro drywall repair, but not so good at performing said repairs in a professional manner, so drywall work for me is a long drawn out process of mud, sand, inspect, mud, sand, inspect, etc. etc. etc.

my last house had old plaster walls so fishing was necessary as plastering is DEFINITELY a skill that I do not have.

 

[DBordello]

It looks like there isn't much room above the panel that would be hidden by the cover. Therefore, it looks like we are making a hole.

Thoughts on cutting an opening and using a blank face plate?

 

[brewchief]

There are multiple options for access panels of various sizes, they are often used for plumbing access, if you do want to keep it small a low voltage old work box will make it easier to mount a blank cover.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[akpolaris]

If you cut a hole in the drywall make sure it is as large as you might want it to be. Don't cut it big enough and you end up cutting another and it gets messy. Cut it vertically on the wall studs and 1 cut across the span of the studs above the panel, close enough to the ceiling. to see the plates. You now have only 3 seams to tape and mud. Use a bedding coat of mud for the tape to sit in then use multiple "skim" coats after that. Wipe it with a sponge instead of sanding. Much cleaner and neater. Taping takes practice!! Good time to start.

 

[DBordello]

Unfortunately, our garage walls have some sort of texture. Therefore, I am doubtful that I am going to be able to successfully repair it, without it being obvious. Therefore, I am thinking an access panel is the way to go.

 

[75gmck25]

Home Depot sells framed metal access panels in sizes up to about 18" square, and they also have some plastic pop-in panels that are even larger. The metal frames need support to screw into on either top/bottom or left/right, so you could use a stud on one side and add wood to support the frame on the other. The plastic pop-in panels have spring clips on the back and some of them are supposed to pop into a raw hole in the drywall. However, drywall edges are fragile, so I wouldn't want to pop it in and out multiple times.

Once you paint the framed panels the same color as the wall they just blend in and look like they were always there.

Bruce

 

[sberry]

Get a nice piece of big square floor tile and fit it in. Make it an art.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Seems like every time I try to fish up a wall I hit blocking...

Tommy

 

[dogdas]

Where in the hell is your main neutral ???? all I see are grounds

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

fishing is an art . measure, measure measure. cut a small section above your panel ( behind the cover plate so it won't show after) fish your wire down from the attic and guide it into the knockout using the slot you cut above the panel . after you're totally frustrated, carefully cut out a larger section of drywall before you take your hammer to the wall.

Cmon now,its not that hard.

 

[toplessHO]

heres one of my old tricks
measure the distance from top of panel to the top plate that have holes in it.
measure and mark a steel fish tape with same measurement
second fish tape or fishstick to push down at least 3/4 way thru the holes in top plate.
get some jetline ,dental floss,dry line etc and make several loops with it.
tie to the fishstick and make it look like a blooming onion .
you can then snag the jetline from below with an open ended fish tape and pull the fish stick down thru the new KO. Caution metal fish tapes and energized panels dont play well together.
I also keep a piece of jack chain in my tool box to use in places like this. just make sure its the smooth type.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

heres one of my old tricks
measure the distance from top of panel to the top plate that have holes in it.
measure and mark a steel fish tape with same measurement
second fish tape or fishstick to push down at least 3/4 way thru the holes in top plate.
get some jetline ,dental floss,dry line etc and make several loops with it.
tie to the fishstick and make it look like a blooming onion .
you can then snag the jetline from below with an open ended fish tape and pull the fish stick down thru the new KO. Caution metal fish tapes and energized panels dont play well together.
I also keep a piece of jack chain in my tool box to use in places like this. just make sure its the smooth type.

 

[wildstyle]

This is how mine ended up trying to fish 1awg teck cable into my panel in my house which happens to be in my master bedroom....Gave up and made it super easy to install.

https://scontent-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10606298_10154831886660144_5541730551699192048_n.jpg?oh=9983b3f3ffb19cd07eba323eb97bbd82&oe=55A5B4FE

 

[72Anthony]

I ended up cutting into the drywall just below the ceiling. This was in garage with attic access above. The panel on the right was the newly installed sub panel and it was too hard to drill through the top plates from the attic, so I did it from below. I ended up "patching" it with a piece of plywood in case I ever needed to access again. If I had one of those flexible drill bits at the time, I probably could of drilled from the panel cut-out.

You want to avoid fishing into a live panel, especially if the service conductors are at the top of the panel.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Is there is a need for a smoke alarm, a wall lite or a clock between the panel and the ceiling..? Pick up a shallow circular box and cut your hole..

 

[sberry]

I have cut hole, worked thru and installed an old work box with cover plate. I am going to re read the fishline trick.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

This is how mine ended up trying to fish 1awg teck cable into my panel in my house which happens to be in my master bedroom....Gave up and made it super easy to install.

https://scontent-sea.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10606298_10154831886660144_5541730551699192048_n.jpg?oh=9983b3f3ffb19cd07eba323eb97bbd82&oe=55A5B4FE

Your outlet is crooked,and its at a different level than phone jack.

 

[wildstyle]

Cant see it with the bed side table there haha

 

[PugetDude]

I've had good luck with a 3" hole saw...Make sure you set the center drill very short so you don't inadvertently drill into a wire in the wall.
Drill one hole on the wall at the ceiling, one just above the panel where you want to pull the wire through. Stop when it just breaks through, don't push it hard.
The 3" holes make it easy to fish, (you can get your hand inside the stud cavity if you have to feel your way around) Save the drywall plugs out of the hole saw, screw a piece of 1x2 blocking behind them and you've got an easy drywall repair with no straight edges...

 

[DBordello]

Follow up time.

Thank you everybody for your suggestions.

Perhaps it was stubbornness, perhaps it was because my wife was watching, but I was actually able to fish the wire without any new dry wall holes. I picked up some glow in the dark fish sticks, and was able to fish up and hit the header. After tapping it a few times, I drilled some holes, which were absolutely no use.

Due to the low vertical clearance, I couldn't get the fish sticks down from the attic. However, on the third hole, I was able to get the fish tape down from the attic, and it ran in to the panel. It took some finesse, but we were able to open a new knockout, and get the fish tape into the panel.

Rest assured, there is now a string between the two locations.

Thank you again for all of your ideas. I am sure I will be making some drywall holes soon.