Fixing and adding wiring to my garage-thoughts?

[afbrian13]

I've read all kind of code books, plus tons of GJ and othe diy type threads on the subject and I'm still a little unsure which way to go on a couple issues. I've still got a call in to an electrician professional friend for a sanity check also.

First to be clear what I'm dealing with: roughly 25x20ft block wall garage with a finished ceiling. One wall shares with my laundry room where the main lives. I have the space in my box for doing my mods, just looking for input on application.

Currently my garage power comes from a drop in an above bedroom. In the ceiling box it splits to a switched light circuit and a 2 outlet ceiling box. Thats what the opener is plugged into. That stuff is all old au 12/2, except where they ran 12/2 cu to a couple other lights. All this is enclosed.

As a quick fix i opened up the au/cu connections and used the purple treminal blocks (cant remember the name, but its what they're for) so au wasnt twisted to cu anymore.(badd joo joo, get a bit toasty) au to au is fine when connected right and not overloaded.

My plan is to seperate everything on the cieling and leave the opener, its ceiling box outlet, single light and switch in place but on its own. If I tie it to its original ceiling drop it should be fine. The most amps it will see is a screw opener and single bulb fixture.
That single light is for when your just jumping in the car or forgot your keys..not doing work.

1st-I'm adding a circuit just for lights. When using my shop as a shop I want it to look like the sun just turned on. 2 to3 4fters over workbenchs and at least 1 over each car, maybe 1 in the middle also. Some secondary bench light/undercabinet style too. Basically 5 to 6 4ft flouros and a couple spots on 1 c/b 20a. Split and switched so the over cars are one sw, bench are one sw.

2nd-I'm adding 2 20a circuits for outlets. Either one 20a split to outlets down one wall, one down the other. Or i could "leapfrog" like you do in a kitchen (every other outlet on a seperate cb)
Can't decide if i want a kill switch at the start of each outlet run or not. All outlets and runs will be in sch40 mounted to block between workbench and shelf hieght.

3rd- I need to get power from the main panel in the unfinished room opposite a cinderblock wall.
-can i run three 12/2 from the panel, then put it in sch40 to pass over/through the block wall?
-from there the lights 12/2 can attach to the ceiling to each light, just need pipe back down the wall to switches.
-the other two 12/2 woulld then go into a jbox (possibly with the cutoofs for each run) and split to my wall outlets in sch40.

I know you can run short 1-2ft lengths in pipe for protection like passing the block. For the lights it could just run to the cieling and a stapling we will go. But...

The 12/2 for outlets needs to enter a jbox to split. If I pipe straight off the feed through does that mean its now part of the system and be required to run in pipe all the way back to the main? Or can you pop out of the feed through pipe 6in, back into the jbox, and then off to your system?
Ideally everything lights and all would be in pipe all the way back to main and fixtures, but then it all has to be single wire, right?
-Or would i be better off, instead of figuring out how to get three 12/2 romex passed the block,
Put a 50a in the main, run 8ga to a 50a sub just inside the garage wall and go from there? Then all garage power would split from a sub panel with breakers right there. Everything then would have to stay in pipe unless a run went up to the cieling and ran just romex to the fixtures correct?
If I did the sub panel version the 8g run would need to be all pipe too since its connected to a box on each end, and longer than 2ft. If I've been reading correctly.

If allowed I'd like to do seperate breakers in the main, 3 exposed 12/2 until i got to the wall, pass through 2ft sch40 at the wall, and straight into a box. Split everything else from there.
Or...8g exposed i hit the wall, into sch40, into sub panel. Split from there.

Which option seems the most resonable, legal, or crazy??
Does the everall idea seem sound?
What would you do different if it was yours?

Thanks for reading this so far, sorry about being long winded. I know the biggest problem answering this stuff is getting the info ( my Yugo wont start-what do i do!?)

Looking forward to constructive criticism,
Thanks in advane,
Brian

 

[afbrian13]

Sorry maybe that was a bit to much info. Let me break it down better.

-If I run a pieace of sch40 pipe a foot or two through a block wall and connect it to my outlet "system" as the nec calls it, does the pipe inside the house have to extend back to the main panel or can I leave it romex inside the house?

-Whould I be ok just running 3 breakers off the main to the garage and splitting it once I cross the block wall, or should I run a 50a sub to the garage and then split everything from 3 breakers there?

Hope that makes it a bit easier to follow. For more detail, see above.

Thank you,
Brian

 

[75gmck25]

From the existing panel to the PVC where the wires pass through the wall, where is the wire running (inside a wall, on the surface, etc.) and what distance does it run?

I assume the PVC pipe through the wall is a protective chase, not conduit. As far as using schedule 40 for the wiring within the garage, I'm sure someone will make suggestions. In general, when you install a complete system of conduit (not just using it for protection of drops to outlets), you pull individual wires in the conduit and do not use NM cable.

The wire has to be protected from the point it leaves the panel until it enters the PVC pipe/chase. For example, if the wire runs straight up from the panel to the ceiling area and then runs along between two joists or through holes across several joists, it is sufficiently out of the way in an unfinished area. However, if you tried to use wire staples to attach it to the bottom of the joists that would not be allowed in an accessible area because someone might come in contact with it or try to use it to hang something on.

If you only need four circuits, you could run two 12/3 NM cables and install them as Multi-wire branch circuits, which gives you two 20 amp circuits per cable. It still takes four positions in the panel, but you only have to run two NM cables.

Bruce

 

[sberry]

I like the plan disconnecting the garage outlet from the old light and opener. Just did one like it and added a new circuit feeding outlets only. I wouldn't bother with a master switch and wouldn't concern myself with every other one etc circuits. Each side is good and simple. It aint going to hurt having a sleeve thru block but you may not even need it. Make sure ther wire is safe from damage is the intent.
I like these upgrades, get rid of old and suspect connections, take motor loads like a chop saw off existing and use new wire. Good solid practical investment of time and money.

 

[afbrian13]

Thanks for the input guys. 200+ views and 2 responses...maybe their looking for info too....

Inside the house the wires will run 5ft across and 10ft along joists to the main panel. There's already a hole to the garage to run through near a return duct where the PO put a phone line and coax. I was just going to put a conduit there because it will be metal on one side and concrete on the other. Plus it makes it easy to close the hole up around a pipe.

I guess I could just use romex out of the wall, across the ceiling (its at the ceiling already) to the walls getting outlets then just drop them where I want. It'll only be 3-4 drops per wall.

I just figure I have a new roll of romex and this is the only project I would use single wire on If I bought 3 spools.

Thanks again!
Brian

 

[pattenp]

Sight unseen of the actual way the wires need to run my feeling is to run one cable to a small sub-panel and branch the circuits from there. If the joist you are running the wire across are in a basement or crawl space they need to go through bored holes or along running boards if smaller than 6/2 or 8/3. So doing a sub-panel using #6 you can go along the bottom of the joist.

I see your wire is going across may be an open ceiling in a utility room, so the same would apply to be through bored holes or on running boards or in conduit.

 

[afbrian13]

Pattenp-the wiring in the house is in an unfinished part of the basement. Its no big deal to bore a few holes for crossing joists, I dont care for wire hanging down anyway.

I like theidea of the sub better anyway. HD has a 4 spot that matches my main panel for $20 and I have breakers. Just need 15ft of 6/3. If I'm going to run it I might as well use that instead of 6/2.

 

[sberry]

You need 3 conductor for a panel anyway. They have a 6 space panel, even better.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In addition to adding the subpanel, i would replace the AL 12/2 NM