Flail Mower

[manwithtools]

I'm considering a flail mower to replace my current rotary cutter. I have about 3 acres of grass field that I let grow taller and mow every three - four weeks. The 5' rotary cutter does not do well along the tree and fence lines due to tracking directly behind the tractor. I'm looking at flails' with hydraulic offset to better mow under and along the tree lines.

I've pretty well narrowed it down to WoodMaxx and IronCraft in ~60" versions. Any input from flail owners or those with experience with them? I'm planning on y-blades to start as my main use case is grass. If I ever get the call to help with brush control, I'll order some hammer blades.

 

[Fixr]

I'm considering a flail mower to replace my current rotary cutter. I have about 3 acres of grass field that I let grow taller and mow every three - four weeks. The 5' rotary cutter does not do well along the tree and fence lines due to tracking directly behind the tractor. I'm looking at flails' with hydraulic offset to better mow under and along the tree lines.

I've pretty well narrowed it down to WoodMax and IronCraft in ~60" versions. Any input from flail owners or those with experience with them? I'm planning on y-blades to start as my main use case is grass. If I ever get the call to help with brush control, I'll order some hammer blades.

At my last job, the grounds guys used flail mowers. They went through blades faster than I expected. Part of that was from hitting the inevitable rocks hidden by the grass, but a lot was just wear. I would order a spare set along with the mower to save shipping costs and possible down time.

 

[larry_g]

Second the stocking of extra cutters, rings, clevises, and bolts/nuts for rig. I find that on ours that the bolts get hammered so bad that it's just easier to replace them when replacing knives. Hitting rocks can wipe out a few at a time. On the john deere they recommend that if one knife gets replaced that the knives on all three rows in that position get replaced to maintain balance.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Hank11]

Keep us informed.
I’m thinking about one also and would love to hear about your experience.

 

[jack stand]

They do have off set rotary mowers if side reach is your goal. If your concern is the tires are crushing the grass leaving uncut streaks, I'm not sure a flail would cure that.

 

[manwithtools]

They do have off set rotary mowers if side reach is your goal. If your concern is the tires are crushing the grass leaving uncut streaks, I'm not sure a flail would cure that.

Not so much worried about tire crushing grass or I would have mentioned that. Primary benefit is it would have offset from the tractor without 6-8' hanging off the back making tight turns a pain like rotary's' do. . No interest in a offset rotary mower, to heavy for my compact tractor and 40hp.

 

[Codyboy]

I had been looking at a flail mower last year.

The one i was looking at was from Nova tractors.

 

[finn]

I bought a lightly used flail off a CL ad a year or two ago. No fancy offsets unless I do it manually, but I paid less than a grand for a Chinese mower that had obviously only been used a couple of times.

I use it to beat back the brush and grass around the shop. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the lawn tractor, but, since my 40 hp compact tractor is a cab model, I really have to get serious with the pole saw and delimb the dozens of trees in the shop yard.

The flail works a lot better than a rotary cutter since it doesn’t stick as far behind the tractor, making it more maneuverable around the mature oaks and young white pines. I like to mow the roadside up to the corner, about a quarter mile, so a hydraulic offset would be ideal. The tractor could then stay away from the limbs. I don’t think I should trim those roadside limbs since they aren’t mine, plus, they enhance the rustic look. It’s the site of a few houses and buildings from a 1921 powder and later dynamite facility. They built it with only narrow gauge railroad access to keep the public away. The previous location closer to town exploded on a regular basis.

 

[RoninB4]

-No comment to make regarding the quality/design/durability of either brand. I will make a comment about the fitment of Ironcraft implements. Before it was sold to a Nashville group of investors, Ironcraft (Decatur plant) was Titan Implements. I was contracted by Spartan in 2023 to create CAD models and drawings for almost all their products because they had very very few of them and the new buyers wanted documentation of the product lines. What they had been working with since 2014 was a few paper sketches and tribal knowledge (previous experience) for fabricating/welding. That's ok too I guess but there were often great inconstancies with the builds which showed up as omitted features, mounting holes that didn't line up, and welding specs that varied per the welder. Rework was not an uncommon occurrence.

-I documents/measured several examples for each product to obtain dimensional averaging and did so with component fitment in mind. The time schedule and the absolute overload of product models caused Titan to hire someone to help. great news for me to get some help. They hired someone that was lacking in self-taught CAD experience (not too big a problem) but used only a tape measure and his own version of guess-ti-mation for dimensional accuracy. Not a big deal for raw overall dimensions but hole sizes, mounting hole patterns, pivot pins, and bushings do require better accuracy than a yo-yo (tape measure). The models/drawings I made were accurate without being overly fussy. The models/drawings made by the other guy were created with careless methods I wouldn't count on for being correct.

-Titan is now Ironcraft and I have no idea how well things are made now. I'm not downing the company or the products made but I also wouldn't just presume that what you purchase is going to be plug-and-play either. You've been advised.

 

[log man]

I have an older 6 foot non offset flail. It came from a school so it was a fine cut - 90 teeth in 6 feet. It does not like extra long grass. Does a great job on my lawn. Rough cut would have 50-60 teeth and bigger cutters instead and would chew thru bigger stuff if encountered. I couldn’t possibly do what the video shows. Make sure whatever you buy is matched for what you want to cut.

 

[manwithtools]

-No comment to make regarding the quality/design/durability of either brand. I will make a comment about the fitment of Ironcraft implements. Before it was sold to a Nashville group of investors, Ironcraft (Decatur plant) was Spartan Implements. I was contracted by Spartan in 2023 to create CAD models and drawings for almost all their products because they had very very few of them and the new buyers wanted documentation of the product lines. What they had been working with since 2014 was a few paper sketches and tribal knowledge (previous experience) for fabricating/welding. That's ok too I guess but there were often great inconstancies with the builds which showed up as omitted features, mounting holes that didn't line up, and welding specs that varied per the welder. Rework was not an uncommon occurrence.

-I documents/measured several examples for each product to obtain dimensional averaging and did so with component fitment in mind. The time schedule and the absolute overload of product models caused Spartan to hire someone to help. great news for me to get some help. They hired someone that was lacking in self-taught CAD experience (not too big a problem) but used only a tape measure and his own version of guess-ti-mation for dimensional accuracy. Not a big deal for raw overall dimensions but hole sizes, mounting hole patterns, pivot pins, and bushings do require better accuracy than a yo-yo (tape measure). The models/drawings I made were accurate without being overly fussy. The models/drawings made by the other guy were created with careless methods I wouldn't count on for being correct.

-Spartan is now Ironcraft and I have no idea how well things are made now. I'm not downing the company or the products made but I also wouldn't just presume that what you purchase is going to be plug-and-play either. You've been advised.

Interesting, I'm not at all surprised at what you have said here. I thought that Ironcraft was previously Titan Implements and they changed their name to avoid confusion with Titan Attachments, which are not known to be all that great.

In the case of Ironcraft and their flail mowers, I'm almost certain they source them from another (Asian) manufacturer and rebrand them. That doesn't change the fact that the attention to fit and finish may be questionable. Thank you for the detailed input.

 

[finn]

Based on what I found when researching flails a couple of years ago, and what RoninB4 validated in his post, I would strongly ignore the USA made “want” and go with one of the Italian brands. The Italian brands popped up with the most endorsements when I searched. The USA made units seemed to be made in rather antiquated backyard fab shops, with little quality control designed into their products or processes, hence I’m not at all surprised by Romin’s comments about no drawings. Without drawings there’s no quality possible.

Having said that I acknowledge that I ended up with a cheap Chinese product that has the same deficiencies, but it seems to do the job. I did note some hole location and fitment issues when setting it to the offset location which didn’t surprise me. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[RoninB4]

-A bit OT here: I really don't like to knock American companies or their workers but it bothers me to see shoddy/careless people affecting manufacturing (or anything else for that matter...) and the sad state of industrial/consumer products with big price tags over the last 25 years. If a company has no drawings (let alone tolerance standards) then you're operating like an overgrown backyard side gig, fault of poor management. If the engineering department is negligent about accuracy in documentation then nepotism has become more important than competency in your duties. I got along fine with the guys on the shop floor, the "professionals" seemed to be more than a little bewildered about basic operations. "We've always done it this way" (WADITW), doesn't define experience or expertise adequately.

I'm not a fussy bass-turd, I just see the decline of American manufacturing being largely due to negligence/incompetence from people in positions that affect what's produced. I have contacts in large corporations and small shops, there's an epidemic of mediocrity afoot. Rant over.

 

[Codyboy]

Interesting, I'm not at all surprised at what you have said here. I thought that Ironcraft was previously Titan Implements and they changed their name to avoid confusion with Titan Attachments, which are not known to be all that great.

In the case of Ironcraft and their flail mowers, I'm almost certain they source them from another (Asian) manufacturer and rebrand them. That doesn't change the fact that the attention to fit and finish may be questionable. Thank you for the detailed input.

This was my understanding too.
The dealer I bought my tractor from carried Titan Implements so thats what all mine are. Now they carry Ironcraft and they told me the name changed. Still made in USA as far as I know.

 

[Skyman]

-A bit OT here: I really don't like to knock American companies or their workers but it bothers me to see shoddy/careless people affecting manufacturing (or anything else for that matter...) and the sad state of industrial/consumer products with big price tags over the last 25 years. If a company has no drawings (let alone tolerance standards) then you're operating like an overgrown backyard side gig, fault of poor management. If the engineering department is negligent about accuracy in documentation then nepotism has become more important than competency in your duties. I got along fine with the guys on the shop floor, the "professionals" seemed to be more than a little bewildered about basic operations. "We've always done it this way" (WADITW), doesn't define experience or expertise adequately.

I'm not a fussy bass-turd, I just see the decline of American manufacturing being largely due to negligence/incompetence from people in positions that affect what's produced. I have contacts in large corporations and small shops, there's an epidemic of mediocrity afoot. Rant over.

This also has been my experience over the course of a few decades. Myopia, ignorance and apathy abound in enterprise management.

I am convinced that the over-emphasis on STEM and MBA curricula, and the coincident destruction of industrial arts programs, has contributed greatly to the trouble. The general under-valuation of skilled craftsmanship and proper documentation can be crippling. Inadequate collaboration between engineering, production, test and repair teams is epidemic and can be fatal to the enterprise.

 

[finn]

This also has been my experience over the course of a few decades. Myopia, ignorance and apathy abound in enterprise management.

I am convinced that the over-emphasis on STEM and MBA curricula, and the coincident destruction of industrial arts programs, has contributed greatly to the trouble. The general under-valuation of skilled craftsmanship and proper documentation can be crippling. Inadequate collaboration between engineering, production, test and repair teams is epidemic and can be fatal to the enterprise.

STEM and the like are essential ingredients to a solid quality control and manufacturing system and processes. How do you evaluate quality without math and statistics?

My opinion is that it has become popular to bash STEM for political reasons.

Without STEM we’d be using stone tools, as STEM is where innovation and progress is initiated, not on the shop floor.

 

[RoninB4]

My opinion is that it has become popular to bash STEM for political reasons.

-I don't feel the bashing is about the concept, it's about how it's often implemented (staying with the original topic?)

Without STEM we’d be using stone tools, as STEM is where innovation and progress is initiated, not on the shop floor.

-True but even some concept as simple as 5S can be carried out to absurd proportions. Yearly QC validation on a ruler/scale? Many a good process has been hampered if common sense doesn't prevail. Until then playing to the lowest common denominator (IQ) will continue.

 

[manwithtools]

Keep us informed.
I’m thinking about one also and would love to hear about your experience.

I'll try to remember to circle back to this thread. I appreciate everyone's input. I pulled the trigger on the WoodMaxx FM-78H this morning. It's a bit bigger than I initially wanted, but I'm on the verge of upgrading my tractor to a 40hp so it should do the job faster than a 60" would.

As it turns out WoodMaxx has free shipping and no TN sales tax until July 1, then they have to start charging tax. That made the decision a little easier.

 

[finn]

-I don't feel the bashing is about the concept, it's about how it's often implemented (staying with the original topic?)

-True but even some concept as simple as 5S can be carried out to absurd proportions. Yearly QC validation on a ruler/scale? Many a good process has been hampered if common sense doesn't prevail. Until then playing to the lowest common denominator (IQ) will continue.

STEM has absolutely nothing to do with wether a calibration of a ruler or scale has to be done on a yearly basis. That’s something dreamed up by inept management.

STEM would be involved in determining HOW to do that calibration, and what a significant error is, or what a statistically valid process is, though.

Your example of blaming STEM on an absurd requirement put in place, probably by local management is in itself absurd, and I doubt it’s fact based.

 

[RoninB4]

STEM has absolutely nothing to do with wether a calibration of a ruler or scale has to be done on a yearly basis.

-Well of course it doesn't, my example was merely about how a concept can be taken to an absurd level.

STEM would be involved in determining HOW to do that calibration, and what a significant error is, or what a statistically valid process is, though.

-That's what my comment was about so thank you for validating it.

Your example of blaming STEM on an absurd requirement put in place, probably by local management is in itself absurd,

-Reading/comprehension are two different subjects for you aren't they? Too much starch in your laundry?

and I doubt it’s fact based.

-Perhaps you should review your own replies for fact/absurdity content before posting. Perhaps you could also learn to spell "whether" while you're at it.

 

[manwithtools]

Guy's, please let this feud settle out on this thread. Take it up another day on another thread.

 

[finn]

-Well of course it doesn't, my example was merely about how a concept can be taken to an absurd level.

-That's what my comment was about so thank you for validating it.

-Reading/comprehension are two different subjects for you aren't they? Too much starch in your laundry?

-Perhaps you should review your own replies for fact/absurdity content before posting. Perhaps you could also learn to spell "whether" while you're at it.

My spelling is pretty good, but Apple’s isn’t, and my proof reading isn’t, either.

Where do you get your starch?

I just find the constant bitching about STEM and railing about how everyone should be a tradesman a bit tiring. Tradesmen have their place, and the world is better for their contributions, but they aren’t what drives progress.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I've used both flail and rotary mowers. One issue with flail mowers is grass length. If the grass or weedy brush gets too long the flail mower has a hard time dealing with it. The grass will get wound up and bound up around the shaft and it can be a pain to untangle. Nice sharp blades can reduce this.

The thing I love about flail mowers is that they tend to pulverize the brush and grass and thus it decomposes more rapidly. Rotary mowers leave more residual trash that takes longer to decompose.

 

[ericm]

Flail mowers don't mow well in reverse. The rear roller pushes the grass over before the blades get to it. That's a drawback if you mow backwards a lot like to work under trees or to go up and down hills instead of side hill.

I have a Woodmaxx 8H PTO chipper. Their designed in US made in China one. It's been pretty good for the price. I made one modification to make the hydraulic feed control work better. It's rare that I don't fix at least one design issue on any vehicle or piece of equipment. I have seen a Woodmaxx flail up close and in action. It looked well made and cut well. I wouldn't hesitate to get one if I was going to buy a flail mower.

Flailmasters carries knives and other parts. I think they mostly stock parts for made in the US models but they might have knives that fit Woodmaxx.

There is more maintenance than a rotary cutter. The belts need adjustment or replacing (in matched sets). The knives need sharpening more often than a rotary's blade. But the quality of cut, or the offset, may be worth it. Reducing the amount of string trimmer work is worth something. I'm going to need to do that for my Oregon place but it may be a ditch bank mower or even a boom mower.

 

[manwithtools]

Flail mowers don't mow well in reverse. The rear roller pushes the grass over before the blades get to it. That's a drawback if you mow backwards a lot like to work under trees or to go up and down hills instead of side hill.

I have a Woodmaxx 8H PTO chipper. Their designed in US made in China one. It's been pretty good for the price. I made one modification to make the hydraulic feed control work better. It's rare that I don't fix at least one design issue on any vehicle or piece of equipment. I have seen a Woodmaxx flail up close and in action. It looked well made and cut well. I wouldn't hesitate to get one if I was going to buy a flail mower.

Flailmasters carries knives and other parts. I think they mostly stock parts for made in the US models but they might have knives that fit Woodmaxx.

There is more maintenance than a rotary cutter. The belts need adjustment or replacing (in matched sets). The knives need sharpening more often than a rotary's blade. But the quality of cut, or the offset, may be worth it. Reducing the amount of string trimmer work is worth something. I'm going to need to do that for my Oregon place but it may be a ditch bank mower or even a boom mower.

I used to have a woodmax 8H chipper as well. I was very happy with it, particularly for it being Chinese made. I'm hoping the flail mower doesn't disappoint.