flange bearing issue

[thejudges69]

I have a flange bearing that I used to design a steering setup on a project for my son and I and I found out tonight that it pivots. When I pull the handle to go forward it pull the axle forward just a little. What I need to know is if there is a flange bearing that does not pivot. I'm looking online and can't find anything in regards to pivot and non pivot flange bearings. I never realized that it pivots just a little and this is a huge problem cause I can not remake what we have built. The shaft that goes into it is about 3/4" diameter. OR can I weld this bearing in place with just a couple of tack welds and go with that. The setup I have is cast iron with an concentric lock flange.

This is a pic of basically what we have now.

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-DAYTON-4-Bolt-Flange-Bearings-WP172230/_/N-1z0dwx0?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3FCX4_AS01?$smthumb$

And just in case anyone should think that welding isn't a good idea for safety, that not an issue, if this unit gets over 1-2 mph ever it will be a miracle. I'm just not sure if it will hold well with cast iron and a steel case bearing.

 

[Steevo]

Can you clarify what you mean by "it pivots"?
Maybe a diagram of what you have built, and what movement is happening that is undesirable?
I can't visualize what the issue is based on your first post.

 

[thejudges69]

here ya go steevo. this will explain what it does

 

[thejudges69]

I'd make a video but I don't know if I can figure out how to upload it.

 

[bigfunwmu]

The pivot function is how the bearing is installed in the flange. To get a bearing that doesn't pivot, you are looking for something other than a typical flange bearing.

Here is how your problem is illustrated:

Sorry, I don't have an answer for you. Just more info on your problem.

 

[thejudges69]

The pivot function is how the bearing is installed in the flange. To get a bearing that doesn't pivot, you are looking for something other than a typical flange bearing.

Here is how your problem is illustrated:

Sorry, I don't have an answer for you. Just more info on your problem.

exactly. I'm thinking I can tack the bearing in place to keep it straight. The only weight on the tongue will be of our son riding in the unit. I just can't have it pivot.

 

[LXCam]

I can't access your links. But I'm assuming your only using one pillow bearing to support the shaft. Do you have room to add a second to stabilize the shaft?

 

[thejudges69]

I can't access your links. But I'm assuming your only using one pillow bearing to support the shaft. Do you have room to add a second to stabilize the shaft?

I do not. I was just looking at the assembly to see if I could add another or, drill a hole for the shafts to kind of guide itself. I'll snap some pics, it's currently apart now though.

 

[thejudges69]

The bearing mounts to the shaft and then on to the steel plate and the whole assembly gets mounted to the bottom of the aluminum plate shown under the steel plate in the one pic.

 

[thejudges69]

Or maybe weld a stud on the end of the steel shaft and drill a hole in the steel plate to guide it. I could add some sort of bronze bushing in the steel plate so it don't squeak when turning.

 

[laser3kw]

take the bearing out then drill and tap a couple of holes in the flange casting. Re-insert and position the bearing where you need it then lock it with set screws.

 

[thejudges69]

take the bearing out then drill and tap a couple of holes in the flange casting. Re-insert and position the bearing where you need it then lock it with set screws.

Oh, that's a great idea. Didn't think of that and it will leave it servicable. I can put small dimpled areas in the bearing as well so the set screws will have something to bite into.

 

[cbogg]

How about if you just took another bearing, flipped it around and put it underneath the first one shown with longer bolts and maybe shot pieces of tubing as sleeves? Seems to me like that would stop the pivoting action and probably be easier than trying to drill that casting.

 

[thejudges69]

How about if you just took another bearing, flipped it around and put it underneath the first one shown with longer bolts and maybe shot pieces of tubing as sleeves? Seems to me like that would stop the pivoting action and probably be easier than trying to drill that casting.

The assembly will be to tall then..I thought about 2 flange bearings together and justdon't have the space.

 

[Katodog]

You're using a self-centering bearing in an application that isn't designed for that type of bearing. The best solution is the tap and set screw suggestion. It shouldn't be hard at all to drill and tap the casing.



Edit: The best solution is to use the right type of bearing. If you don't have the right type of bearing or don't want to get the right type, then the tap and set screw idea is your best option

 

[thejudges69]

You're using a self-centering bearing in an application that isn't designed for that type of bearing. The best solution is the tap and set screw suggestion. It shouldn't be hard at all to drill and tap the casing.

I agree, I'm going to either drill it myself or drop it at the machine shop if I don't have time.

Also, this is the only type of assembly I could come up with to do what I needed. I know its not designed for this but its gotta work. The original assembly was a large bolt threaded into a weld nut, you threaded the bolt into the weld nut and that was your steering assembly. It was the worst idea I think I have ever seen.

 

[Know Wosad]

Buy a bearing with a flange . Dont complicate things

 

[thejudges69]

Buy a bearing with a flange . Dont complicate things

I need a lock ring so it will clamp onto the shaft.

 

[kerrynzl]

Why dont you go up in O/D size for the bearing.
And bore out the pillow block in a lathe so it is straight.

Leave a rebate edge on one side ,and a circlip groove on the other edge to hold the bearing in the block

 

[thejudges69]

Why dont you go up in O/D size for the bearing.
And bore out the pillow block in a lathe so it is straight.

Leave a rebate edge on one side ,and a circlip groove on the other edge to hold the bearing in the block

I considered that also, I can't talk to the bearing supplier til Monday about a bearing that will work for that. I still run into the issue of needing a locking flange. I think I maybe also able to get a press fit bearing and avoid the circlip. There is no pressure on this bearing so it won't fall out if its pressed in.

I have to be able to clamp it onto the shaft, it will not work any other way. If it don't clamp the steering shaft then it won't work, the steering shaft will fall out anytime you lift the unit into the pickup or anywhere else.

I'm curious and headed to try now, if I can remove the concentric lock and assembly from this bearing, if so I can get a straight bearing with the I/D to accept the assembly from this bearing.

 

[manwithtools]

Almost all flange bearings are "self-aligning" They have to be because they bolt to surfaces that are not flat - i.e. not machined or ground. They are designed to used in pairs.

If that shaft and bearing don't make full revolutions then you would be better off with a bronze bushing. Bearings don't like the application you are trying to use it for. It will probably last forever in your case, but that's a better fit for a bushing. Your pictures don't show enough of the structure to discern what you are building so that makes it hard to recommend a solution without lots of speculation on our part.

Need to know things like - how much weight does it support, does it pivot over 360 degrees, does it see lots of dirt or water, etc.?

 

[larry_g]

I looked at that and thought that you could be using a spindle for a mower blade. If you could find one that will fit your work envelope.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mow...EwjLvfiUzfjNAhUN8GMKHRSkAu0Q_AUIBygC&dpr=1.75

lg
no neat sig line

 

[racer-john]

Why not use a bushing with a shaft collar on each side locked to the shaft with set screws?

 

[thejudges69]

Why not use a bushing with a shaft collar on each side locked to the shaft with set screws?

The bushing has to be in some sort of housing to mount it to the steel plate.

 

[thejudges69]

Almost all flange bearings are "self-aligning" They have to be because they bolt to surfaces that are not flat - i.e. not machined or ground. They are designed to used in pairs.

If that shaft and bearing don't make full revolutions then you would be better off with a bronze bushing. Bearings don't like the application you are trying to use it for. It will probably last forever in your case, but that's a better fit for a bushing. Your pictures don't show enough of the structure to discern what you are building so that makes it hard to recommend a solution without lots of speculation on our part.

Need to know things like - how much weight does it support, does it pivot over 360 degrees, does it see lots of dirt or water, etc.?

The bearing will work forever on this application. Unfortunately due to the fact that some members creep on me here but don't communicate with me I can not post any more pics.

The weight is minimal, the weight of the aluminum top is roughly 25lbs, the weight of our son and any baggage. So max loaded down on both axles combined will be 100 lbs, including our son. The rear axle is fixed and does no turn. I have to keep the aluminum top level so that's why it can't be taller. And the front axle being the steering it should pivot 180 degrees at least. 360 is no problem

The reason I chose the flange bearing is for the mounting capabilities. I was able to take what I have and alter it. If I knew in the beginning that they pivoted I would have went a different route. It should be in doors 99.9% of the time. It won't see and mud or dirt. If the bearing is not sealed that's ok. Now if it will help I can pm you some pictures but they can't be shared in public on here.

 

[thejudges69]

I just stumbled onto a collar bearing. If I can machine this flange housing to be straight bore inside and put a collar bearing in that would be perfect. If its a press fit then it's perfect.

 

[racer-john]

The bushing has to be in some sort of housing to mount it to the steel plate.

Remember post #17. The collar(s) will stop the shaft from pulling out

 

[thejudges69]

Forgot. Yes that will work if the shaft is long enough and there is a recessed area for the top collar. I will assemble this and post only a pic of what I've already shown

 

[larry_g]

[/URL]

The bearing mounts to the shaft and then on to the steel plate and the whole assembly gets mounted to the bottom of the aluminum plate shown under the steel plate in the one pic.

Another possibility is to turn a ring that rides on the outer race of the bearing and is flush or just proud of the mounting surface of the mount. When mounting, the ring would sandwich between the bearing race and the mount plate. That would prevent the bearing from moving in the housing. If in future you wanted to add a bit of camber to the steering you could cut a wedge shaped ring.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[thejudges69]

Another possibility is to turn a ring that rides on the outer race of the bearing and is flush or just proud of the mounting surface of the mount. When mounting, the ring would sandwich between the bearing race and the mount plate. That would prevent the bearing from moving in the housing. If in future you wanted to add a bit of camber to the steering you could cut a wedge shaped ring.

lg
no neat sig line

That's a very good idea as well.

 

[larry_g]

That's a very good idea as well.

I've got near 9000 posts here.. I've hit it right 2 or 3 times.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[welder59]

The bearings that you are using are "self aligning" that is why they pivot. Flange bearings used to come both ways, self aligning and rigid. I actually have not looked for a rigid bearing in a very long time. I think they are still made. good luck.

 

[laser3kw]

If I can machine this flange housing to be straight bore inside and put a collar bearing in that would be perfect. If its a press fit then it's perfect.

If you machine a bore for the bearing, shoot for a line to line fit or .000" clearance. Most try to apply to much press and end up with problems. If you do want a true press fit go for no more than .001" interference. Also apply some Loc tite 609 bearing retaining compound.

 

[why worry]

Since there is minimal to no load on the bearing how about removing the grease zert and putting in a set screw to lock it in to place.
Dave

 

[thejudges69]

several great ideas here and one of them is sure to work. I called my bearing distributor this morning and he's going to check to see if they can still get a fixed bearing. I'm waiting on a call back from him before I run to the machine shop.

He also mentioned the same as several member about adding set screws.

 

[Provincial]

They make some flange mount bearings that do not have the spherical outer race. Most that I have seen have been in agricultural applications, like disc harrows.

What you need is a "bellcrank bearing", but in aircraft the largest size I have seen is 5/16". Google that to see pictures.

Your local bearing supply should be able to find "cylindrical bearing outside diameter" flange mounts. Since you are using a fractional size shaft, you will be limited in finding bearings. 3/4" is more common in the agricultural field. (pardon the pun)