Flare nut wrench test
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woody 73
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Yes, something like that, but with multiple brands and noting failure mode, torque at which the wrench failed and any permanent damage to the tool. i.e. At what torque did the wrench jaws spread enough to slip or allow the fastener to round off? Was there any damage to the wrench? Dimensional changes to the wrench? Etc.
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You might want to mention that in a reply to a PF youtube video instead of here, including some brands you'd like tested.
I'd wonder how he would rate those that have tight tolerances so can't even fit on a rusty nut without cleaning it off first. Some will think that is bad but I prefer a tight fit and to have to do that, instead of more slack and increased chance of rounding one off.
I'd wonder how he would rate those that have tight tolerances so can't even fit on a rusty nut without cleaning it off first. Some will think that is bad but I prefer a tight fit and to have to do that, instead of more slack and increased chance of rounding one off.
gjusername
Well-known member
post a comment to a projectfarm video asking him to do it.
Somehow he reads every comment, even when there are thousands. He's replied to mine and taken my suggestion before.
Somehow he reads every comment, even when there are thousands. He's replied to mine and taken my suggestion before.
I've have had unpolished Craftsman, Mac, and a Taiwan sets since the mid '80s. And the non-polished CM has out done my polished Mac and, of course, my semi-polished Taiwan set. As a mechanic there were a couple of times that the lead mechanic used my CM over his polished SK (IIRC). Seems like the non-polished CM offered a better grip over the polished fn wrenches.
Good suggestion. I did that just before posting here, and he did indeed respond.
I have the Craftsman raised panel wrenches in SAE, c.a. 1995, and used them professionally for a while. I never cared for them because they tended to round off more flare nuts than they broke loose. That's one of the reasons I bought a set of SK in metric. In full disclosure, I've not had the SK on any difficult fasteners yet.
I dislike tool videos. Tests in particular. But this specific type of tool I would be interested to see where it may lead. I've put off buying metrics (I have SK fractionals) because of the advice of people I've learned to trust in here. I'm on retirement budget and not a mechanic so I can't justify top shelf and by you guys experience, the others are just a way to compound the inherent problems with line wrenches in general.
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
We've been eying doing this since it's pretty simple. But happy to see if PF or Client Graphics wants to do it 1st.
Any preference on the go to size or brands besides SK and Snappy?
Any preference on the go to size or brands besides SK and Snappy?
mv213
Well-known member
Gearwrench and Tekton come to mind as their stuff is fairly well thought of, and reasonably priced.
Tekton doesn't make flare wrenches. It's a hole in their lineup.
mv213
Well-known member
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finn
Well-known member
I have Craftsman, SK, Popular Mechanic’s (?), Husky, some unbranded, and some SnapOn.
Unfortunately, the five or six SnapOn aren’t the sizes commonly found in Ford or GM products, so I can’t comment on their quality on first hand experience.
The Craftsman, SK, and Popular Mechaics are my favorites.
Rounding off is caused by the fittings being severely corroded and junk already, or seizure of the nut to the line by rust.
The first tool I reach for when working on my rusted junk brake lines is the acetylene torch. If there are still points on the nut, and the line is still useable, my Craftsman etc work fine.
Unfortunately, the five or six SnapOn aren’t the sizes commonly found in Ford or GM products, so I can’t comment on their quality on first hand experience.
The Craftsman, SK, and Popular Mechaics are my favorites.
Rounding off is caused by the fittings being severely corroded and junk already, or seizure of the nut to the line by rust.
The first tool I reach for when working on my rusted junk brake lines is the acetylene torch. If there are still points on the nut, and the line is still useable, my Craftsman etc work fine.
These were my suggestions to him: NAPA Carlyle, HF Quinn, Snap On, SK, Tekton, GearWrench, Craftsman, Husky, etc.
Oh, I know. I don't always agree with his test methods or conclusions either, but at least he's methodical.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Maybe some posters could say it a little nicer, but for the most part the threads are more a discussion of his methods and different ways which would have given more accurate results.
But then there are those that act like any sort of constructive criticism or discussion is an "attack".
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Also thinking some more on this, I'm sure one of the main failure modes of cheap wrenches would be the sizes being inconsistent due to poor tolerancing. Similar to cheap allen keys. One of my criticisms of Project Farm's allen key video was that he was just testing a single key from each manufacturer, and wasn't measuring the key or the fastener. You could run a flare nut wrench test, but you'd almost need multiples from each brand in the same size to get an idea of the range of variation. Or at the very least, measure each size in a whole set and note the variation +/- throughout the set to get a general idea on the tolerances used.
Using a single size from a single set means that on cheaper brands you might be "lucking" into one that's the perfect size, or on a more expensive brand you might be getting an outlier that's at the far end of their spec range. One of the big things you're paying for in expensive wrenches / sockets / allens / etc is sizing consistency and tighter tolerances.
Using a single size from a single set means that on cheaper brands you might be "lucking" into one that's the perfect size, or on a more expensive brand you might be getting an outlier that's at the far end of their spec range. One of the big things you're paying for in expensive wrenches / sockets / allens / etc is sizing consistency and tighter tolerances.
Add a MAC to that test too. Im asking because I jsut picked up some older metric units. The mastercraft ones i had were complete ****. rounding every time. Even a normal open end wrench worked better than those..and thats certainly not the right tool for a flare fitting.
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
Maybe something PF is equipped to do financially (and a missed opportunity when he shows full sets and tests only 1 size), but doing full sets vs picking a size from multiple brands changes it from a ~$300-400 endeavor with materials to make to a $1200-1600 one. Especially a bummer since in our case we already have a Snap-On set and Matco set we already use and would need to re-buy the sets since we have to test new examples. We simply wouldn't be able to make videos anymore.
People ask the same about impact wrenches "You really need to be testing 2-3 of that one to know its performance" and while sure, that's sound logic - we're happy to leave a shipping address if someone wants to send us the extra 160 impact wrenches and batteries of the 80 we've tested to double check things
At least with flarenut wrenches you'd get two sizes to test and measure vs ASME standards out of a single wrench, so that's something.
kelpaso1
MEMBER EMERITUS
Just get SO and be done with it. Have mine for 40 years and havent wore one out yet.
I suggest adding Gearwrench "ratcheting" line wrenches. I want them on video so people see how poorly they work. Those wrenches are near the top of my worst purchases. I have Snap-on, SK and Carlyle as my go to now and all have worked just fine for me. Snap-on if you want top quality. SK if you want affordable made in the USA and Carlyle if you want a budget set that's still good quality.
The Carlyle are longer than my SK ones which is sometimes nice but other times they're too long in tight spots.
The Carlyle are longer than my SK ones which is sometimes nice but other times they're too long in tight spots.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Definitely need Cornwell in this test too!
Bmxkelowna
Well-known member
if we are adding suggestions then i need to add the ktc/nepros NMSZ-10 as i just ordered one and am hoping it works really good haha
MJK
Well-known member
I had CM USA (only a couple sizes) for decades and bought the full Caryle set a few years ago for the additional sizes. I never do this, but I threw them away less than a month after receiving them. They weren't even good enough that I felt OK about putting them in a road bag or giving them away. I now have used SO off eBay.
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
The trick is to test multiple sizes, too. It's not just how many 17mm heads you can wrench off brand new bolts (which too many folks do when testing wrenches). At some point it's about worst case scenarios. Smaller fittings are more likely to round off. These are expensive tests when tool damage can be a likely outcome.
I will say that my SK line wrenches are excellent, but I got some new Snap-On for the common European brake hydraulic sizes, and the SO's are a step up in tightness of fit.
-Ryan
I will say that my SK line wrenches are excellent, but I got some new Snap-On for the common European brake hydraulic sizes, and the SO's are a step up in tightness of fit.
-Ryan
Ricky Joe
Well-known member
Snap-On doesn’t spread easily. The fit is always nominal on corroded fasteners. I had to remove the sensor from a Mercedes turbo. Herbrand, Craftsman, Mac, New Britain; all spread. Snap-On did the job. I am not a fan of much overpriced tools, but if it does the job, it is not overpriced. This was a 17mm fitting, I think. I’m sure it isn’t necessary on smaller fittings.
FWIW, I have SK and Craftsman. I'm not a pro, so on the odd occasion I need a line wrench, I try both and use whichever fits the tightest. Believe it or not, sometimes it's the old Cman raised panel. Probably doesn't qualify as much of a test, but it works in my garage.
i'd like see TTC do a test on these as the tests are well executed and logical thus pretty viable real world results .
choose a popular brake line size and go for it, would be cool compare to the usa visegrips 4LW or 7LW
choose a popular brake line size and go for it, would be cool compare to the usa visegrips 4LW or 7LW
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
Now listen here, if you think flattery will get you anywhere with me... you're absolutely right.
Done.
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Handyandy23
Well-known member
Maybe something PF is equipped to do financially (and a missed opportunity when he shows full sets and tests only 1 size), but doing full sets vs picking a size from multiple brands changes it from a ~$300-400 endeavor with materials to make to a $1200-1600 one. Especially a bummer since in our case we already have a Snap-On set and Matco set we already use and would need to re-buy the sets since we have to test new examples. We simply wouldn't be able to make videos anymore.
People ask the same about impact wrenches "You really need to be testing 2-3 of that one to know its performance" and while sure, that's sound logic - we're happy to leave a shipping address if someone wants to send us the extra 160 impact wrenches and batteries of the 80 we've tested to double check things
At least with flarenut wrenches you'd get two sizes to test and measure vs ASME standards out of a single wrench, so that's something.
That's very fair, and I know testing to those levels can be expensive. I work in automotive manufacturing, and the general rule of thumb is to take a 30 piece sample size on any measurements so that you can get a statistically relevant result, but for me that's going out to the line and grabbing 30 parts from a bin and measuring. It's not so easy when you don't have access to the manufacturing facility (if you had to go to a dealership and buy 30 of the same part on your own dime, for example).
I'm not sure how YT monetization works, but I'm guessing PF with 2.2 million subscribers could afford the full sets. However I can definitely see how it's not reasonable on a lot of tests, and for those with less financial backing.
I guess overall I would just like the limitations of the test to be made a little more clear. In the PF video on allen keys he didn't measure the keys or the fasteners, and then twisted them until they stripped out. At the very least I thought making sure he's using measured fasteners would have been an easy and cheap enough step to take. Tolerances work both ways, not just on the tool itself, and if you tested a properly-sized allen key on an out of spec fastener then it's giving false results.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
I know his testing methods may not always be the best, but he's a one man operation using his own money, and he does try to be consistent in terms of the amount of force is used, etc. For the most part, his tests are informative, even if I don't agree with his top pics all the time. There is no point in attacking him or calling him names unless one is willing to put forth the effort and do it better.
cherrybomb
Well-known member
The man can't always duplicate every situation that comes up in the wrenching world.fastener tolerance and grade,wrench tolerance ,and rust for those in the rust belt all add to so many variables.Maybe how much you use,or much you want to pay is one of the deciding factors.Confidence in your brand is always welcome.If a tool fails,a lot don't use that tool again.
Wondering how much advertising money PF gets from each of one of those tool testing videos. Suppose he now spends $500 and his time and effort and gets back $1500. If he triple his bugget and double his effort and gets back $2000 following the more 'rigourous' recommendations here, it would be pretty depressing for him, right? You won't do this yourself, at least not consistently as he does. So just be quiet and enjoy. Get what you get, don't get upset!
buy once cry once.
engineer2
Well-known member
They should test Crescent so they can have a loser to pick on. I have a set (emergency purchase) and they are very sloppy.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Why even post threads with his videos then if the attitude is "shut up and like it no matter what"? I guess nothing left to discuss, and one man's findings in his home-designed test on a single tool are to be taken as 100% gospel.
A little informed discussion over testing methods certainly isn't harming anyone.
He also has over 416,000,000 views since his channel started 5 years ago. Quick Google search says 1 million views on YT is worth between $2,000 and $5,000. So at the low end of that scale he's made at least $800k off his videos over those 5 years, and could be more than double that. I don't think he's going to go broke buying a few extra wrenches. When it hits a point of that kind of success it's not exactly some side hobby that he's just doing for fun.
It's not just "buying a few extra wrenches", to get every brand imaginable and 30x of each. It'd take him multiple times as long to do the testing.
Why would someone with a formula that works for getting views, want to reduce his video production rate to a fraction of what it is, in order to satisfy a minority of viewers who would stop watching because they feel the testing isn't thorough enough? Even so, he's ambitious for trying to read all video comments, so mention it in video comments.
I see it as meant for entertainment value, and often it seems like PF is trying to hold back laughing his **** off at the ridiculousness of it all. Bacon grease as motor oil. Maybe he should have bought more brands of bacon. Enough said.
Why would someone with a formula that works for getting views, want to reduce his video production rate to a fraction of what it is, in order to satisfy a minority of viewers who would stop watching because they feel the testing isn't thorough enough? Even so, he's ambitious for trying to read all video comments, so mention it in video comments.
I see it as meant for entertainment value, and often it seems like PF is trying to hold back laughing his **** off at the ridiculousness of it all. Bacon grease as motor oil. Maybe he should have bought more brands of bacon.
Enough said.TTC: if you could test one of the vintage USA Craftsman raised panel flare nut wrenches, I think that'd be great; I'm sure a lot of people here have them. Yes, you can't buy them new anymore, but I'd bet they're one of the more popular choices for home users here that are over 40 years old. And I'm curious how they would test in comparison to the new stuff.
I've only seen a few PF videos but like them overall. I think he dropped the ball on the hex key test using a BHCS; but overall, he does a good job using limited resources and not having access to a full test lab full of real engineering equipment. It's funny how PF and real tool reviews get so much criticism here. It's a lot easier to criticize how someone does something than to actually do it yourself.
I've only seen a few PF videos but like them overall. I think he dropped the ball on the hex key test using a BHCS; but overall, he does a good job using limited resources and not having access to a full test lab full of real engineering equipment. It's funny how PF and real tool reviews get so much criticism here. It's a lot easier to criticize how someone does something than to actually do it yourself.
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
Ok ok, that's it! Out of money to spend on this!
On its way to us:
Snap-On
SK
Matco (TW)
Irwin vicegrip style
Cresent (already purchased them before the above comment, but always good to show if something IS bad)
Gearwrench
Gearwrench ratcheting (because I think it's a terrible idea and want to know how terrible)
Craftsman (new)
Craftsman (old, raised panel)
Haven't purchase Quinn yet because I dont think they sell individuals at HF? Though the set isn't exactly expensive.
And also a bunch of materials, such as the smaller sizes but long GR8 bolts needed to fit our rig, grade 2 nuts to simulate a soft mushy hex to see which round 1st at what torque. But we'll also be testing and measuring vs the ASME standard using the ASME process for that, determining proof torque and hardness.
This will take awhile though, and we have a handful of For Science episodes we havent finished testing yet, so don't expect it right away.
Oh yeah, and our 9-5 jobs
On its way to us:
Snap-On
SK
Matco (TW)
Irwin vicegrip style
Cresent (already purchased them before the above comment, but always good to show if something IS bad)
Gearwrench
Gearwrench ratcheting (because I think it's a terrible idea and want to know how terrible)
Craftsman (new)
Craftsman (old, raised panel)
Haven't purchase Quinn yet because I dont think they sell individuals at HF? Though the set isn't exactly expensive.
And also a bunch of materials, such as the smaller sizes but long GR8 bolts needed to fit our rig, grade 2 nuts to simulate a soft mushy hex to see which round 1st at what torque. But we'll also be testing and measuring vs the ASME standard using the ASME process for that, determining proof torque and hardness.
This will take awhile though, and we have a handful of For Science episodes we havent finished testing yet, so don't expect it right away.
Oh yeah, and our 9-5 jobs
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